Found Safe TN - Mary Catherine Elizabeth Thomas, 15, Maury County, 13 March 2017 #10

[J4cknsal1y]

MOO, they chose still frames carefully to try to make their interactions appear uncomfortable or forced. But when you watch the video, all you see are two people calmly walking next to each other and chatting.

I am having a hard time taking this case seriously as some kind of kidnapping brainwashing crisis. I think it best that I go back to refraining from posting lest I get myself in trouble.

I do agree that watching the video they look more calm than just seeing the still frames. However, I think it was important to post those still frames so that anyone who may have missed those looks and body language displays in the quick video are sure to see uncomfortable body language that I see displayed in the stills.

I take this case very seriously. Whether she initially went willingly or not, she is still missing after over 2 weeks. That is concerning. He groomed her. He probably brainwashed her at least temporarily. And he most certainly kidnapped her---she is only 15 years old!!!!!!


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[DatelineFan]

MOO, they chose still frames carefully to try to make their interactions appear uncomfortable or forced. But when you watch the video, all you see are two people calmly walking next to each other and chatting.

I am having a hard time taking this case seriously as some kind of kidnapping brainwashing crisis. I think it best that I go back to refraining from posting lest I get myself in trouble.

Is it difficult for you to believe a woman is abused by her husband if she doesn't leave him?

I'm shocked that so many people seem to think that a victim is going to be kicking and screaming all the time. Abuse beats you down physically, emotionally and mentally.

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[Rachel1]

I do believe ET is a victim, she's 15 and he's 50. I could care less if she went willingly or not. He groomed and coerced her, IMO.

But what I have noticed (not just with this thread) is a lot of conformation bias.
Sometimes when we believe something so strongly, our minds will twist any little bit of information to make it fit with the theory we feel so strongly about. Example- the sleeves. Something as simple as a shirt being too big gets turned into she's likely tied up and restraints are on her hands. Example- ET says I love you on Instagram and tags another user that isn't TC. Someone thinks that is her secretly sending TC signals that she is no longer interested and is with someone else now ( even though the other member was a teen girl and teens often say things like love ya and bae ! And all that sweet stuff!)
So I have to really remind myself constantly while considering a theory or potential clue. I remind myself how conformation bias can do a lot of harm and really cloud the facts. It really can happen in all aspects of our lives so it's ever so important to keep an open mind and be willing to accept new information. In this case and many other MP cases, it actually does a disservice to the victims.

 

[Irishboy]

MOO, they chose still frames carefully to try to make their interactions appear uncomfortable or forced. But when you watch the video, all you see are two people calmly walking next to each other and chatting.

I am having a hard time taking this case seriously as some kind of kidnapping brainwashing crisis. I think it best that I go back to refraining from posting lest I get myself in trouble.

Agree the still tell a different story than stills IMO.
In stills she is walking behind TC in a subordinate role and the video she looks comfortable interacting with him IMO, almost joking like they know they are on camera and he smirks.
IMO

 

[Bravo]

Agree Rachel. If this case goes to Court that will be huge in the Defense case. Based on what little we know right now.

 

[Lauranyc83]

Agree the still tell a different story than stills IMO.
In stills she is walking behind TC in a subordinate role and the video she looks comfortable interacting with him IMO, almost joking like they know they are on camera and he smirks.
IMO

Is there any video from that still of her walking behind him? Before they get the shopping cart. I've only seen the video of them after they retrieved the shopping cart. I wish we could see them leaving Walmart as well.

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[a_cream_sheep]

My theory... She went willingly but only under coercion. Look. She's wearing the same shirt he was wearing when he was pumping gas in Columbia, indicating she was under-prepared for travel. However, she knew enough ​to tell a friend she was going out west. Mixed feelings would explain the mixed information, like her fear of him while still planning to go.

I think he convinced her he could give her a better life using his master manipulation skills. Regardless of her home life, she was new to school and therefore apart from the safety of the pack. This would have made her an easy target, and he used her struggles and willingness to be vulnerable to create a dependency.

 

[Rachel1]

Put it like this, if she was walking around Walmart holding a sign up that said" I am here willingly and want to be here" I'd still feel the urgency to locate her. ( Elizabeth never held a sign up or said that, I'm just trying to make a point)
She is an abused and neglected child who fell prey to a 50 yr old man. She deserves better then this. She needs to have a childhood. So much of her Young Life has been riddled with abuse already. She is a victim in my eyes. The details surrounding her disappearance really aren't a priority, locating her is!

 

[bluesneakers]

Is it difficult for you to believe a woman is abused by her husband if she doesn't leave him?

I'm shocked that so many people seem to think that a victim is going to be kicking and screaming all the time. Abuse beats you down physically, emotionally and mentally.

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Right. We can't forget he's been preparing her for this for months. And now she is far from home in a strange place and he's all she's got.

 

[blue22]

It's 9 seconds, guys. It tells us nothing, IMO. Not to mention, victims don't always look or act like victims.

Not looking or acting like a victim gets used against assault and abuse victims all the time. When we start judging whether someone in a victim by how they act in a 9 second video...it's just a really slippery slope. JMO.

 

[alucardsdream]

Agree Rachel. If this case goes to Court that will be huge in the Defense case. Based on what little we know right now.

As a lawyer, I would hate to be assigned his case. She's 15. Not a lot you can do to swing that in your favor. He can say she went willingly, and maybe that might be taken into account as a mitigating factor if the court believes him, but she's still underage.

JMO of course.

 

[Bravo]

My theory... She went willingly but only under coercion. Look. She's wearing the same shirt he was wearing when he was pumping gas in Columbia, indicating she was under-prepared for travel. However, she knew enough ​to tell a friend she was going out west. Mixed feelings would explain the mixed information, like her fear of him while still planning to go.

I think he convinced her he could give her a better life using his master manipulation skills. Regardless of her home life, she was new to school and therefore apart from the safety of the pack. This would have made her an easy target, and he used her struggles and willingness to be vulnerable to create a dependency.

:welcome:

 

[Mom24]

I do agree that watching the video they look more calm than just seeing the still frames. However, I think it was important to post those still frames so that anyone who may have missed those looks and body language displays in the quick video are sure to see uncomfortable body language that I see displayed in the stills.

I take this case very seriously. Whether she initially went willingly or not, she is still missing after over 2 weeks. That is concerning. He groomed her. He probably brainwashed her at least temporarily. And he most certainly kidnapped her---she is only 15 years old!!!!!!


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Well, here's how I see it. TC is taking an awful chance having them both in the same store together. Everyone is looking for two people, and there they are. He's much less likely to get noticed going in alone. Instead he brings her along. He does this because he can't control her when she's out of his sight, or he doesn't trust her. So he brings her along with him. Captors, especially those who have been trained to be sub, will smile and know how to be good so their captors treat them well. It can be hard for people who haven't either been through it, or worked with it, to understand. ET's upbringing taught her to be a submissive, and I'm using that term meaning exactly what it means. TC is a dominant control figure, it's why he got into teaching, it's why he was a bully to anyone his equal it's why he changed jobs often, and it's why he "likes 'em young" so to speak. I'm going to bet his wife was very kind, quiet, did what she was told and that they got married very young doesn't surprise me. So he's got guns and she's his property and I'm sure he's told her how to act What I see is her looking up at him like a dog does at a dog show to see if he's pleased. He's not looking at her, he's maintaining control. This is not on any level an equal relationship. Walk into a store with one of your friends, or your spouse and you'll turn your head and talk with them. It's what people who are truly with each other do, unless they're upset with each other. She's keeping open body language, but it's still protective in the way she's tight. Her hair is stringy and greasy, teens don't go out in public looking like that. They won't even go out with a pimple on their faces and the wrong makeup. Anyone with a teen daughter has had to suffer through a bad hair day when they child won't go out and has a complete meltdown over being seen without being perfect. So no, I don't get the "I'm on holiday with the man of my dreams" vibe. There's no touching, only very stiff movements and while it was great to see her alive and breathing, the detached look on her face frightens me.

 

[DatelineFan]

Agree Rachel. If this case goes to Court that will be huge in the Defense case. Based on what little we know right now.

IMO, this is a very sad example of why so many victims are afraid to report their abuser(s).

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[alucardsdream]

Well, here's how I see it. TC is taking an awful chance having them both in the same store together. Everyone is looking for two people, and there they are. He's much less likely to get noticed going in alone. Instead he brings her along. He does this because he can't control her when she's out of his sight, or he doesn't trust her. So he brings her along with him. Captors, especially those who have been trained to be sub, will smile and know how to be good so their captors treat them well. It can be hard for people who haven't either been through it, or worked with it, to understand. ET's upbringing taught her to be a submissive, and I'm using that term meaning exactly what it means. TC is a dominant control figure, it's why he got into teaching, it's why he was a bully to anyone his equal it's why he changed jobs often, and it's why he "like 'em young" so to speak. I'm going to be his wife was very kind, quiet, did what she was told and that they got married very young doesn't surprise me. So he's got guns and she's his property and I'm sure he's told her how to act What I see is her looking up at him like a dog does at a dog show to see if he's pleased. He's not looking at her, he's maintaining control. This is not on any level an equal relationship. Walk into a store with one of your friends, or your spouse and you'll turn your head and talk with them. It's what people who are truly with each other do, unless they're upset with each other. She's keeping open body language, but it's still protective in the way she's tight. Her hair is stringy and greasy, teens don't go out in public looking like that. They won't even go out with a pimple on their faces and the wrong makeup. Anyone with a teen daughter has had to suffer through a bad hair day when they child won't go out and has a complete meltdown over being seen without being perfect. So no, I don't get the "I'm on holiday with the man of my dreams" vibe. There's no touching, only very stiff movements and while it was great to see her alive and breathing, the detached look on her face frightens me.

I absolutely agree!

They did have one thing going for them, though...I really doubt anyone in Oklahoma was looking for them on March 15th. It took the case some time to cross the country...I think I first heard about it that Friday, which was the 17th. He was cunning enough to get outside of the Amber Alert area, and that's probably the only thing that saved him from getting caught. If he tried the same move now, LE would be all over him.

 

[Mom24]

So she told a friend, according to the family attorney, she was headed out west. The question is, was the person who had supposedly offered to help them out west?

 

[J4cknsal1y]

Well, here's how I see it. TC is taking an awful chance having them both in the same store together. Everyone is looking for two people, and there they are. He's much less likely to get noticed going in alone. Instead he brings her along. He does this because he can't control her when she's out of his sight, or he doesn't trust her. So he brings her along with him. Captors, especially those who have been trained to be sub, will smile and know how to be good so their captors treat them well. It can be hard for people who haven't either been through it, or worked with it, to understand. ET's upbringing taught her to be a submissive, and I'm using that term meaning exactly what it means. TC is a dominant control figure, it's why he got into teaching, it's why he was a bully to anyone his equal it's why he changed jobs often, and it's why he "likes 'em young" so to speak. I'm going to bet his wife was very kind, quiet, did what she was told and that they got married very young doesn't surprise me. So he's got guns and she's his property and I'm sure he's told her how to act What I see is her looking up at him like a dog does at a dog show to see if he's pleased. He's not looking at her, he's maintaining control. This is not on any level an equal relationship. Walk into a store with one of your friends, or your spouse and you'll turn your head and talk with them. It's what people who are truly with each other do, unless they're upset with each other. She's keeping open body language, but it's still protective in the way she's tight. Her hair is stringy and greasy, teens don't go out in public looking like that. They won't even go out with a pimple on their faces and the wrong makeup. Anyone with a teen daughter has had to suffer through a bad hair day when they child won't go out and has a complete meltdown over being seen without being perfect. So no, I don't get the "I'm on holiday with the man of my dreams" vibe. There's no touching, only very stiff movements and while it was great to see her alive and breathing, the detached look on her face frightens me.

Yes I agree.


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[Pamela_Brewer]

Hopefully if there is another sighting he will have bought her some new clothes!
If she is still wearing the same clothes after 2 weeks, he IMO, really doesn't care about her one way or the other.
I see them sleeping in rest stop parking lots, and washing with baby wipes or something. I don't believe this is the life she was promised prior to taking off with him.
MOO

 

[Whiteorchids]

My theory... She went willingly but only under coercion. Look. She's wearing the same shirt he was wearing when he was pumping gas in Columbia, indicating she was under-prepared for travel. However, she knew enough ​to tell a friend she was going out west. Mixed feelings would explain the mixed information, like her fear of him while still planning to go.

I think he convinced her he could give her a better life using his master manipulation skills. Regardless of her home life, she was new to school and therefore apart from the safety of the pack. This would have made her an easy target, and he used her struggles and willingness to be vulnerable to create a dependency.

This video was only a couple days after they left being its almost 30 days later I'm sure they've changed their clothes by now.

Geez it's just a short video of two people casually walking, chatting into Walmart. How some of you are making so many interpretations is bizarre.

 

[Mom24]

I absolutely agree!

They did have one thing going for them, though...I really doubt anyone in Oklahoma was looking for them on March 15th. It took the case some time to cross the country...I think I first heard about it that Friday, which was the 17th. He was cunning enough to get outside of the Amber Alert area, and that's probably the only thing that saved him from getting caught. If he tried the same move now, LE would be all over him.

And the notion that he must have understood how to play the AA system really worries me. He really planned out some of the details very well.