TX - Margaret Schlosser, 10 mos, arms cut off, dies, Plano, 22 Nov 2004 *Insanity*
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Jeana (DP)
Former Member
I couldn't find the original thread:
Dad's 'lack of emotion' in baby's death cited in psychiatric report
Man has grieved over loss and couldn't have predicted infant's death, attorney says
The night before Dena Schlosser admitted cutting off her baby's arms, her husband "spanked" his wife with a wooden spoon, their school-age daughter told authorities.
The 6-year-old girl said John Schlosser hit her mother for not listening to him after they argued in a church parking lot.
The incident is among new details revealed in a psychiatric evaluation of Mr. Schlosser completed to help determine whether his surviving daughters should live with him. The evaluation, performed by psychologist Jana R. Long less than a month after 10-month-old Margaret Schlosser died, was obtained by The Dallas Morning News this week.
The report describes Mr. Schlosser's "lack of emotion" after the tragic events in his life and echoes concern by Child Protective Services that Mr. Schlosser, 35, could have done more to protect his youngest daughter from his wife's "violent, psychotic" behavior.
* * *
Details from the report, medical records, and family members, shed new light on a family that relied heavily on prayer to solve their problems, even as Mrs. Schlosser declined from a loving mother of three to a woman accused of killing her baby girl.
Margaret "Maggie" Elizabeth Schlosser was born at home with the help of a midwife last January. The next day, her mother attempted suicide by slashing her wrist. Days later, she was found running down the street screaming, saying a spirit was in the apartment, according to medical records. She left Margaret alone. Mrs. Schlosser's family says this was her first run-in with mental illness, postpartum psychosis and the antipsychotic drug Haldol.
* * *
Paramedics took Mrs. Schlosser to the hospital, where Mr. Schlosser begged doctors to send his wife home, according to medical records. He was worried their religious beliefs would be confused with psychosis, the records show. In 24 hours, doctors at three hospitals diagnosed his wife with just that.
* * *
Because Mrs. Schlosser could not be alone with the children, Mr. Schlosser's mother stayed with the family for six weeks, the psychiatric report said.
Instead of following up with doctors, Mr. Schlosser said he and his wife prayed, according to the psychiatric report. He thought her problems were over.
"Mr. Schlosser indicated at the time of Mrs. Schlosser's suicide attempt, she believed she was not doing God's will, and she needed to hurt herself to see if God would heal her," the psychiatric report says.
* * *
But in March, Mrs. Schlosser was back in the hospital and once again on Haldol, according to her parents and the psychiatric report. She left the Schlossers' apartment in the middle of the night and went to a nearby hospital, where she was found lying on the bathroom floor screaming, Mrs. Schlosser's stepfather, Mick Macaulay, said. Further details of the hospitalization and any follow-ups are unclear.
* * *
Dena Schlosser's family said she was obsessed with Water of Life Church and its charismatic minister, Doyle Davidson. Mr. Davidson, a self-proclaimed prophet, preaches that women have "jezebel spirit" and must submit to their husbands. He claims to heal people by laying hands on them and says doctors are unnecessary for those with enough faith.
John Schlosser said he and his wife consulted minister Doyle Davidson the night before Margaret was killed, but the leader of Water of Life Church says they talked only briefly. Mr. Davidson had recently been arrested over the incident and paid a fine for public intoxication. He denies the charge and said he was trying to drive the devil out of a woman who had strayed from the church.
Mr. Macaulay said he's "puzzled" that Mr. Davidson would say he doesn't know the Schlossers well when he counseled them the night before Maggie's death.
* * *
Dr. Long wrote in her report that Mr. Schlosser's responses to the tragedy in his life are unusual and said he has narcissistic personality traits.
"His lack of emotion given the traumatic nature of recent events is disturbing," she wrote. "This absence of grief is either an immature denial of normal human emotions that hover under the surface of his controlled veneer or indicates a true lack of emotion."
Mr. Schlosser told her he felt "a little melancholy" about Maggie's death, but he finds comfort that she is "praising God" in heaven. He said he was "almost done being very sad when I buried her."
* * *
Initially, he said he was "angry, disappointed" with his wife. "I need to forgive her ... I don't have a lot to say to her. She's still my wife, but she's no longer in my house."
Mr. Schlosser should have sought ongoing psychiatric treatment for his wife instead of relying on prayer and conversations with their minister, Dr. Long's report says.
* * *
When the older girl asked about her mother, Mr. Schlosser told her, "Mommy put herself in this position for what she did."
Later, during the same visit, the girl asked what kind of knife her mother used.
"Does it really matter?" he told her. "I am trying not to think about it."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021105dnccoschlosser.4c3a6.html
Dad's 'lack of emotion' in baby's death cited in psychiatric report
Man has grieved over loss and couldn't have predicted infant's death, attorney says
The night before Dena Schlosser admitted cutting off her baby's arms, her husband "spanked" his wife with a wooden spoon, their school-age daughter told authorities.
The 6-year-old girl said John Schlosser hit her mother for not listening to him after they argued in a church parking lot.
The incident is among new details revealed in a psychiatric evaluation of Mr. Schlosser completed to help determine whether his surviving daughters should live with him. The evaluation, performed by psychologist Jana R. Long less than a month after 10-month-old Margaret Schlosser died, was obtained by The Dallas Morning News this week.
The report describes Mr. Schlosser's "lack of emotion" after the tragic events in his life and echoes concern by Child Protective Services that Mr. Schlosser, 35, could have done more to protect his youngest daughter from his wife's "violent, psychotic" behavior.
* * *
Details from the report, medical records, and family members, shed new light on a family that relied heavily on prayer to solve their problems, even as Mrs. Schlosser declined from a loving mother of three to a woman accused of killing her baby girl.
Margaret "Maggie" Elizabeth Schlosser was born at home with the help of a midwife last January. The next day, her mother attempted suicide by slashing her wrist. Days later, she was found running down the street screaming, saying a spirit was in the apartment, according to medical records. She left Margaret alone. Mrs. Schlosser's family says this was her first run-in with mental illness, postpartum psychosis and the antipsychotic drug Haldol.
* * *
Paramedics took Mrs. Schlosser to the hospital, where Mr. Schlosser begged doctors to send his wife home, according to medical records. He was worried their religious beliefs would be confused with psychosis, the records show. In 24 hours, doctors at three hospitals diagnosed his wife with just that.
* * *
Because Mrs. Schlosser could not be alone with the children, Mr. Schlosser's mother stayed with the family for six weeks, the psychiatric report said.
Instead of following up with doctors, Mr. Schlosser said he and his wife prayed, according to the psychiatric report. He thought her problems were over.
"Mr. Schlosser indicated at the time of Mrs. Schlosser's suicide attempt, she believed she was not doing God's will, and she needed to hurt herself to see if God would heal her," the psychiatric report says.
* * *
But in March, Mrs. Schlosser was back in the hospital and once again on Haldol, according to her parents and the psychiatric report. She left the Schlossers' apartment in the middle of the night and went to a nearby hospital, where she was found lying on the bathroom floor screaming, Mrs. Schlosser's stepfather, Mick Macaulay, said. Further details of the hospitalization and any follow-ups are unclear.
* * *
Dena Schlosser's family said she was obsessed with Water of Life Church and its charismatic minister, Doyle Davidson. Mr. Davidson, a self-proclaimed prophet, preaches that women have "jezebel spirit" and must submit to their husbands. He claims to heal people by laying hands on them and says doctors are unnecessary for those with enough faith.
John Schlosser said he and his wife consulted minister Doyle Davidson the night before Margaret was killed, but the leader of Water of Life Church says they talked only briefly. Mr. Davidson had recently been arrested over the incident and paid a fine for public intoxication. He denies the charge and said he was trying to drive the devil out of a woman who had strayed from the church.
Mr. Macaulay said he's "puzzled" that Mr. Davidson would say he doesn't know the Schlossers well when he counseled them the night before Maggie's death.
* * *
Dr. Long wrote in her report that Mr. Schlosser's responses to the tragedy in his life are unusual and said he has narcissistic personality traits.
"His lack of emotion given the traumatic nature of recent events is disturbing," she wrote. "This absence of grief is either an immature denial of normal human emotions that hover under the surface of his controlled veneer or indicates a true lack of emotion."
Mr. Schlosser told her he felt "a little melancholy" about Maggie's death, but he finds comfort that she is "praising God" in heaven. He said he was "almost done being very sad when I buried her."
* * *
Initially, he said he was "angry, disappointed" with his wife. "I need to forgive her ... I don't have a lot to say to her. She's still my wife, but she's no longer in my house."
Mr. Schlosser should have sought ongoing psychiatric treatment for his wife instead of relying on prayer and conversations with their minister, Dr. Long's report says.
* * *
When the older girl asked about her mother, Mr. Schlosser told her, "Mommy put herself in this position for what she did."
Later, during the same visit, the girl asked what kind of knife her mother used.
"Does it really matter?" he told her. "I am trying not to think about it."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/021105dnccoschlosser.4c3a6.html
golfmom
Former Member
Arrrggghhh ... I've tried 3 times to respond to this thread. I give up.
Those poor kids.
Those poor kids.
mysteriew
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Sounds like another post partum depression to me. And in this case it looks like the Mom tried to get help (reference the time she left the apt and was found screaming in the hospital bathroom) Again the father thought that the preacher and their religion could heal her. I feel that the father should be charged with at least child endangerment for knowing the mother was in such bad shape, he didn't try to get her help, and he knowingly left the kids with her.
God help the other kids. They are going to have to deal with what happend to their sister and mother for all their lives. Hopefully the so called Dad won't get custody.
God help the other kids. They are going to have to deal with what happend to their sister and mother for all their lives. Hopefully the so called Dad won't get custody.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
It would seem that post-partum depression (psychosis?) and self-proclaimed prophets don't mix too well.
golfmom
Former Member
Jeana (DP) said:It would seem that post-partum depression (psychosis?) and self-proclaimed prophets don't mix too well.
Yeah, but what's up with daddy spanking mommy with a wooden spoon?
:snooty:
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
golfmom said:
If someone tried that on me, they'd need surgery to remove that spoon from where it would end up.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
golfmom said:
Seriously, he got it from this guy:
Dena Schlosser's family said she was obsessed with Water of Life Church and its charismatic minister, Doyle Davidson. Mr. Davidson, a self-proclaimed prophet, preaches that women have "jezebel spirit" and must submit to their husbands.
Me again: I don't mean to be flippant about this, but what kind of people are sucked in by these phony "ministers"????? Don't they have ANY common sense???
golfmom
Former Member
Jeana (DP) said:If someone tried that on me, they'd need surgery to remove that spoon from where it would end up.
Jeana, you made me spit my Sprite all over my monitor.
:slap:
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
golfmom said:
sorry.
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
Judge: Schlosser can raise children alone
McKINNEY A judge ruled this morning that the man whose wife admitted cutting off their baby's arms can parent his children alone.
John Schlosser's sister has been living with him and his two daughters, ages 6 and 9, since they left foster care last month.
Dena Schlosser, who turns 36 today, was charged with capital murder after the Nov. 22 death of her daughter, Margaret "Maggie" Schlosser. She was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis after her daughter's birth last January.
His sister, Aleta Schlosser, will leave Feb. 17 but will keep in daily phone contact with the children. Ms. Schlosser lives in New York. Judge Cynthia Wheless also issued a gag order in the case.
Dad's 'lack of emotion' in baby's death cited in psychiatric report
She also said the children must continue individual counseling, Mr. Schlosser should continue parenting classes and all three must continue family counseling.
Child Protective Services will continue to monitor the situation.
www.dallasnews.com
McKINNEY A judge ruled this morning that the man whose wife admitted cutting off their baby's arms can parent his children alone.
John Schlosser's sister has been living with him and his two daughters, ages 6 and 9, since they left foster care last month.
Dena Schlosser, who turns 36 today, was charged with capital murder after the Nov. 22 death of her daughter, Margaret "Maggie" Schlosser. She was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis after her daughter's birth last January.
His sister, Aleta Schlosser, will leave Feb. 17 but will keep in daily phone contact with the children. Ms. Schlosser lives in New York. Judge Cynthia Wheless also issued a gag order in the case.
Dad's 'lack of emotion' in baby's death cited in psychiatric report
She also said the children must continue individual counseling, Mr. Schlosser should continue parenting classes and all three must continue family counseling.
Child Protective Services will continue to monitor the situation.
www.dallasnews.com
Jeana (DP)
Former Member
golfmom said:
This case, as in the Yates case, has women who are apparently brow-beaten by husbands and these "minsters," who then take it out on their helpless children. Perhaps these "ministers" should come with warning labels.
concernedperson
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Jeana (DP) said:If someone tried that on me, they'd need surgery to remove that spoon from where it would end up.
LOL...a good belly laugh, I needed that. Thanks Jeana, :blowkiss:
mysteriew
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Jeana (DP) said:
I don't understand how this can happen. The so called father left the children with person he knew was mentally unstable (the mother). One of the children has recounted that she saw her father "spank" her mother with a spoon (couldn't that also be called domestic violence?) He influenced the mother and the doctors and prevented his wife from recieving medical care for her mental instability which may have led up to the loss of his daughter. And the judge gave the children to this man? How can he do this? What kind of life will this be for these poor kids?
concernedperson
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mysteriew said:
Sometimes I have to just throw my hands up and say WTF? I just don't know.
Sprocket
Former Member
I agree.concernedperson said:
This is ridiculous letting this "not a sane brain cell left in the husband's head" continue to parent under the guise of keeping families together and/or religous freedoms.
Geez sporkin' louise.
jmho, of course.
ariel7
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
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Jeana (DP) said:If someone tried that on me, they'd need surgery to remove that spoon from where it would end up.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeana (DP) said:
and Amen!
Goodness gracious that evil false prophet sure leaves out an awful lot
(as they all do). Like: Husbands love your wives and deal not harshly with
them. Umm, Husbands LOVE your wives as Christ loved the church.
They are to love their wives as they love their own bodies---noursihing and
cherishing them and are NOT to be bitter against them.
Here's a good verse I just found: Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the Lord
hath been a witness between thee and thy wifeof thy youth, against whom thouhast dealt treacherously:yet she is thy COMPANION , and
the wife of thy covenant.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
These poor children! This awful situation worries me.
I think it's time some of these husbands started seeing the world through those prison bars. Like Rusty Yates, this man had as much to do with this womans break as the post partum psychosis or the church. Probably one of those men, strutting around like roosters, letting the wife know he was the boss. Then, when something bad happens, well....he was just a God Fearing Christian trying his best. Yeah, right. Somebody string him up!