So if a phone is turned off the stingray doesn't work ? tia
TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers, 45, killed in church/suspect in SWAT gear, 18 Apr 2016 #38
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So if a phone is turned off the stingray doesn't work ? tia
latanishaboulevardez
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POI previously discussed who moved out of state has a connection to Dallas LEO
TenaciousTBacon
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Correct. It mimics a cell tower. No power to the phone, no ping.
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Exactly. Even a phone, that is turned off checks with a cell tower by the way. One has to power it down or all systems off, in order not to ping. Well, or one takes the sim card out, then we have just a blob of metal.
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TenaciousTBacon
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What is the difference between turned off and powered down? Not snark, I thought they were they same.
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It has to be powered down, not just turned off. Remember, when you turn off a phone, you will still get an incoming phone call or notifications or emails. It will drain your battery. If you power it down - hold the power button for a few seconds- it will stop checking in with the nearest available cell tower.
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Being able to receive calls or not being able to receive calls for example as a result of powering it down or cutting all checks or pings.
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Jethro4WS
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Or remove the battery.
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Please notice, that many of us are not posting initials or details about any person of interest. We are not posting because we don't know, but because we do not want to interfere with the investigation or worse, having this thread shut down again..;--)
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coastal
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I don't want to derail this thread, but many LEAs use a thing called "Hemisphere" to track cell phone usage. I did a little research on this when MSM reported it's use in the arrest of Charles Merritt, who is accused of killing the McStay family. It is controversial, at least, and may be a violation of our civil rights. Litigation is pending.
Here's some of what I found:
\http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...phone-surveillance-program.html#ixzz4OCHK5lhX
snip>>>
Since 2007, AT&T has been secretly cooperating with law enforcement
Controversial project is known as Hemisphere
It means the telecoms giant profits by sharing the information
Program gives government access to a large database that stores telephone records spanning decades
http://www.ocweekly.com/news/mcstay-...ations-7621535
McStay Family Slayings Arise in AT&T For-Profit Spying Revelations
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2016 AT 6:33 A.M.
>>snip
A connection between AT&T's massiveand for-profitsecret spying program and the beating deaths of a San Clemente businessman and his family?
Welcome to the brave new world...
...Despite the comfort Merritt's arrest has brought to the friends and loved ones of the deceased, the idea that a private company like AT&T is profiting off taxpayer-funded spying on Americans is raising red flags. As Merritt writes:
Hemisphere isnt a partnership but rather a product AT&T developed, marketed, and sold at a cost of millions of dollars per year to taxpayers. No warrant is required to make use of the companys massive trove of data, according to AT&T documents, only a promise from law enforcement to not disclose Hemisphere if an investigation using it becomes public.
These new revelations come as the company seeks to acquire Time Warner in the face of vocal opposition saying the deal would be bad for consumers. Donald Trump told supporters over the weekend he would kill the acquisition if hes elected president; Hillary Clinton has urged regulators to scrutinize the deal.
...The for-profit spying program that these documents detail is more terrifying than the illegal NSA surveillance programs that Edward Snowden exposed," says campaign director Evan Greer in a statement. "Far beyond the NSA and FBI, these tools are accessible to a wide range of law enforcement officers including local police, without a warrant, as long as they pay up. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it...
(article continues)
<<<snip
http://boingboing.net/2016/10/26/att...product-f.html
12:04 AM WED OCT 26, 2016
>>>snip
...Because the data was sold by AT&T and not compelled by government, all of the Hemisphere surveillance was undertaken without a warrant or judicial review (indeed, it's likely judges were never told the true story of where the data being entered into evidence by the police really came from -- again, something that routinely happened before the existence of Stingray surveillance was revealed).
The millions given to AT&T for its customers' data came from the federal government under the granting program that also allowed city and town police forces to buy military equipment for civilian policing needs. Cities paid up to a million dollars a year for access to AT&T's customer records.
EFF is suing the US government to reveal DoJ records on the use of Hemisphere data...
(article continues)
<<<snip
11/03/2016, coastal posted:
Interesting factoid: a Google search for 'hemisphere, AT&T' tonight returned 11,000 results.
Move along, nothing to see here.
And,
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Hearings-January-and-February-and-2016/page26
11/6/2016, coastal said:
I feel like Chicken Little, running around screaming THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!
And since I'm the only one doing it, I'm probably wrong. I know that. I'm just going to post what I found anyway, and hope for the best.
http://www.talkandroid.com/304056-at...y-on-citizens/
AT&T Project Hemisphere used to spy on citizens
Jeff Causey
October 25, 2016
Project Hemisphere is used to search trillions of call records and analyzes cellular data to determine where a target is located, with whom he speaks, and potentially why. These searches can be performed without a warrant, although law enforcement agencies do have to promise not to disclose the existence or use of Hemisphere, even after an investigation using the data goes public
Due to the secretive nature of Hemisphere compared to rights of those charged with a crime to know the evidence against them, law enforcement agencies end up preparing what Adam Schwartz, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, describes as a false investigative narrative. The result is what is known as parallel construction in the legal community, meaning investigators and prosecutors will go about collecting evidence in a routine manner so as not to reveal the existence of the leads received via Hemisphere
ACLU technology policy analyst Christopher Soghoian says AT&T is going far beyond cooperation with law enforcement and is mining the data of millions of innocent people. Beyond that, the carrier has built a business around this data and their abilities to mine it to identify patterns or to do things like track a user between multiple, successive, discarded phone numbers
https://consumerist.com/2016/10/25/a...ce-nationwide/
Law enforcement bureaus sheriff and police departments pay six-figure or seven-figure sums annually to AT&T for Hemisphere access, the Daily Beast reports. Harris County, Texas where Houston sits paid AT&T just over $77,000 for Hemisphere access in 2007; by 2011, the county was paying $940,000
..AT&T, however, is eager to keep its participation secret even while AT&T employees, acting on behalf of law enforcement clients, are the ones who find, analyze, and present the data that police use. So if all that data its mined leads to a case moving forward, or a suspect in a crime being arrested, that leaves police in something of a pickle: they have to find a way to use the evidence, and share its provenance with a criminal defendant and their legal team, without revealing that Hemisphere exists
That leads to something called parallel construction: to get a piece of evidence, without actually using it from the way you got it, you have to go back and reconstruct the case to find another, alternate way to get it
https://www.rt.com/usa/364221-att-so...ess-customers/
Its commercial surveillance, Chester told the Beast, noting that through mobile devices, AT&T can even pinpoint the geographical locations of users
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/1...e-phone-spying
What do police do with the Hemisphere evidence that they cannot talk about? According to a Hemisphere training document, police must wall off that evidence, and then recreate it with a traditional subpoena. Police call this parallel construction. EFF calls it evidence laundering...
The government calls the practice "parallel construction," but deciphering their double speak, the practice should really be known as "intelligence laundering." This deception and dishonesty raises a host of serious legal problems.
First, the SOD's insulation from even judges and prosecutors stops federal courts from assessing the constitutionality of the government's surveillance practices. Last year, Solicitor General Donald Verilli told the Supreme Court that a group of lawyers, journalists and human rights advocates who regularly communicate with targets of NSA wiretapping under the FISA Amendments Act (FAA) had no standing to challenge the constitutionality of that surveillance. But Verrilli said that if the government wanted to use FAA evidence in a criminal prosecution, the source of the information would have to be disclosed. When the Supreme Court eventually ruled in the government's favor, finding the plaintiffs had no standing, it justified its holdingby noting the government's concession that it would inform litigants when FAA evidence was being used against them.
Although the government has been initially slow to follow up on Verrilli's promises, it has begrudgingly acknowledged its obligation to disclose when it uses the FAA to obtain evidence against criminal defendants. Just last week DOJ informed a federal court in Miami that it was required to disclose when FAA evidence was used to build a terrorism case against a criminal defendant.
Terrorism cases make up a very small portion of the total number of criminal cases brought by the federal government, counting for just 0.4 percent of all criminal cases brought by all U.S. Attorney offices across the country in 2012. Drug cases, on the other hand, made up 20 percent of all federal criminal cases filed in 2012, the second most prosecuted type of crime after immigration cases. If the government acknowledges it has to disclose when FAA evidence has been used to make a drug caseeven if it's a tip leading to a pretextual traffic stopthe number of challenges to FAA evidence will increase dramatically
Even beyond the larger systemic problem of insulating NSA surveillance from judicial review, criminal defendants whose arrest or case is built upon FISA evidence are now deprived of their right to examine and challenge the evidence used against them
..Taken together, the Fifth and Sixth Amendments guarantee a criminal defendant a meaningful opportunity to present a defense and challenge the government's case. But this intelligence laundering deprives defendants of these important constitutional protections. It makes it harder for prosecutors to comply with their ethical obligation under Brady v. Maryland to disclose any exculpatory or favorable evidence to the defensean obligation that extends to disclosing evidence bearing on the reliability of a government witness. Hiding the source of information used by the government to initiate an investigation or make an arrest means defendants are deprived of the opportunity to challenge the accuracy or veracity of the government's investigation, let alone seek out favorable evidence in the government's possession
<<<snip
My bold.
P.S. (THE SKY IS FALLING!)
I don't know if Hemisphere was used in Missy's case. We'll probably never know, even it was used, since that's the way it is designed, but if it was used, and LE discovered evidence that led to a suspect, LE will have to use "parallel construction" to re-discover that evidence some other way, than Hemisphere, to prosecute anyone.
Sigh. It's confusing and complicated, and way beyond my research skills, but it is another tool available to LE in researching cell phone data.
Apologies for the long post. Hoping for an arrest soon of Missy's killer..
Here's some of what I found:
\http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...phone-surveillance-program.html#ixzz4OCHK5lhX
snip>>>
Since 2007, AT&T has been secretly cooperating with law enforcement
Controversial project is known as Hemisphere
It means the telecoms giant profits by sharing the information
Program gives government access to a large database that stores telephone records spanning decades
http://www.ocweekly.com/news/mcstay-...ations-7621535
McStay Family Slayings Arise in AT&T For-Profit Spying Revelations
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2016 AT 6:33 A.M.
>>snip
A connection between AT&T's massiveand for-profitsecret spying program and the beating deaths of a San Clemente businessman and his family?
Welcome to the brave new world...
...Despite the comfort Merritt's arrest has brought to the friends and loved ones of the deceased, the idea that a private company like AT&T is profiting off taxpayer-funded spying on Americans is raising red flags. As Merritt writes:
Hemisphere isnt a partnership but rather a product AT&T developed, marketed, and sold at a cost of millions of dollars per year to taxpayers. No warrant is required to make use of the companys massive trove of data, according to AT&T documents, only a promise from law enforcement to not disclose Hemisphere if an investigation using it becomes public.
These new revelations come as the company seeks to acquire Time Warner in the face of vocal opposition saying the deal would be bad for consumers. Donald Trump told supporters over the weekend he would kill the acquisition if hes elected president; Hillary Clinton has urged regulators to scrutinize the deal.
...The for-profit spying program that these documents detail is more terrifying than the illegal NSA surveillance programs that Edward Snowden exposed," says campaign director Evan Greer in a statement. "Far beyond the NSA and FBI, these tools are accessible to a wide range of law enforcement officers including local police, without a warrant, as long as they pay up. It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it...
(article continues)
<<<snip
http://boingboing.net/2016/10/26/att...product-f.html
12:04 AM WED OCT 26, 2016
>>>snip
...Because the data was sold by AT&T and not compelled by government, all of the Hemisphere surveillance was undertaken without a warrant or judicial review (indeed, it's likely judges were never told the true story of where the data being entered into evidence by the police really came from -- again, something that routinely happened before the existence of Stingray surveillance was revealed).
The millions given to AT&T for its customers' data came from the federal government under the granting program that also allowed city and town police forces to buy military equipment for civilian policing needs. Cities paid up to a million dollars a year for access to AT&T's customer records.
EFF is suing the US government to reveal DoJ records on the use of Hemisphere data...
(article continues)
<<<snip
11/03/2016, coastal posted:
Interesting factoid: a Google search for 'hemisphere, AT&T' tonight returned 11,000 results.
Move along, nothing to see here.
And,
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Hearings-January-and-February-and-2016/page26
11/6/2016, coastal said:
I feel like Chicken Little, running around screaming THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!
And since I'm the only one doing it, I'm probably wrong. I know that. I'm just going to post what I found anyway, and hope for the best.
http://www.talkandroid.com/304056-at...y-on-citizens/
AT&T Project Hemisphere used to spy on citizens
Jeff Causey
October 25, 2016
Project Hemisphere is used to search trillions of call records and analyzes cellular data to determine where a target is located, with whom he speaks, and potentially why. These searches can be performed without a warrant, although law enforcement agencies do have to promise not to disclose the existence or use of Hemisphere, even after an investigation using the data goes public
Due to the secretive nature of Hemisphere compared to rights of those charged with a crime to know the evidence against them, law enforcement agencies end up preparing what Adam Schwartz, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, describes as a false investigative narrative. The result is what is known as parallel construction in the legal community, meaning investigators and prosecutors will go about collecting evidence in a routine manner so as not to reveal the existence of the leads received via Hemisphere
ACLU technology policy analyst Christopher Soghoian says AT&T is going far beyond cooperation with law enforcement and is mining the data of millions of innocent people. Beyond that, the carrier has built a business around this data and their abilities to mine it to identify patterns or to do things like track a user between multiple, successive, discarded phone numbers
https://consumerist.com/2016/10/25/a...ce-nationwide/
Law enforcement bureaus sheriff and police departments pay six-figure or seven-figure sums annually to AT&T for Hemisphere access, the Daily Beast reports. Harris County, Texas where Houston sits paid AT&T just over $77,000 for Hemisphere access in 2007; by 2011, the county was paying $940,000
..AT&T, however, is eager to keep its participation secret even while AT&T employees, acting on behalf of law enforcement clients, are the ones who find, analyze, and present the data that police use. So if all that data its mined leads to a case moving forward, or a suspect in a crime being arrested, that leaves police in something of a pickle: they have to find a way to use the evidence, and share its provenance with a criminal defendant and their legal team, without revealing that Hemisphere exists
That leads to something called parallel construction: to get a piece of evidence, without actually using it from the way you got it, you have to go back and reconstruct the case to find another, alternate way to get it
https://www.rt.com/usa/364221-att-so...ess-customers/
Its commercial surveillance, Chester told the Beast, noting that through mobile devices, AT&T can even pinpoint the geographical locations of users
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/1...e-phone-spying
What do police do with the Hemisphere evidence that they cannot talk about? According to a Hemisphere training document, police must wall off that evidence, and then recreate it with a traditional subpoena. Police call this parallel construction. EFF calls it evidence laundering...
The government calls the practice "parallel construction," but deciphering their double speak, the practice should really be known as "intelligence laundering." This deception and dishonesty raises a host of serious legal problems.
First, the SOD's insulation from even judges and prosecutors stops federal courts from assessing the constitutionality of the government's surveillance practices. Last year, Solicitor General Donald Verilli told the Supreme Court that a group of lawyers, journalists and human rights advocates who regularly communicate with targets of NSA wiretapping under the FISA Amendments Act (FAA) had no standing to challenge the constitutionality of that surveillance. But Verrilli said that if the government wanted to use FAA evidence in a criminal prosecution, the source of the information would have to be disclosed. When the Supreme Court eventually ruled in the government's favor, finding the plaintiffs had no standing, it justified its holdingby noting the government's concession that it would inform litigants when FAA evidence was being used against them.
Although the government has been initially slow to follow up on Verrilli's promises, it has begrudgingly acknowledged its obligation to disclose when it uses the FAA to obtain evidence against criminal defendants. Just last week DOJ informed a federal court in Miami that it was required to disclose when FAA evidence was used to build a terrorism case against a criminal defendant.
Terrorism cases make up a very small portion of the total number of criminal cases brought by the federal government, counting for just 0.4 percent of all criminal cases brought by all U.S. Attorney offices across the country in 2012. Drug cases, on the other hand, made up 20 percent of all federal criminal cases filed in 2012, the second most prosecuted type of crime after immigration cases. If the government acknowledges it has to disclose when FAA evidence has been used to make a drug caseeven if it's a tip leading to a pretextual traffic stopthe number of challenges to FAA evidence will increase dramatically
Even beyond the larger systemic problem of insulating NSA surveillance from judicial review, criminal defendants whose arrest or case is built upon FISA evidence are now deprived of their right to examine and challenge the evidence used against them
..Taken together, the Fifth and Sixth Amendments guarantee a criminal defendant a meaningful opportunity to present a defense and challenge the government's case. But this intelligence laundering deprives defendants of these important constitutional protections. It makes it harder for prosecutors to comply with their ethical obligation under Brady v. Maryland to disclose any exculpatory or favorable evidence to the defensean obligation that extends to disclosing evidence bearing on the reliability of a government witness. Hiding the source of information used by the government to initiate an investigation or make an arrest means defendants are deprived of the opportunity to challenge the accuracy or veracity of the government's investigation, let alone seek out favorable evidence in the government's possession
<<<snip
My bold.
P.S. (THE SKY IS FALLING!)
I don't know if Hemisphere was used in Missy's case. We'll probably never know, even it was used, since that's the way it is designed, but if it was used, and LE discovered evidence that led to a suspect, LE will have to use "parallel construction" to re-discover that evidence some other way, than Hemisphere, to prosecute anyone.
Sigh. It's confusing and complicated, and way beyond my research skills, but it is another tool available to LE in researching cell phone data.
Apologies for the long post. Hoping for an arrest soon of Missy's killer..
No it's not
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Oh my, not only do I know about EWE, but I also own his book. Very valuable now, by the way.
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Camerabug
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Couldn't one encase a cellphone in a faraday cage and also prevent disclosing imei data
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There are FB groups out there posting about the MB murder. Some are wild and uncensored - so are the theories- , some are more civil and boring - so are their theories. We are trying not to bring their stuff over here.
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That's what I thought. Wonder if SP knew this ?
DeDee
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Jethro4WS est. the case map of CCoC for us.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-32&p=12692621#post12692621
In mid-August, 2016, upon entry from the Main Western Doors and turning right once inside to walk toward the SW Corner. There are 3 doors: 20, 18, 17. Using your map's key:
W3 - Door 20 * The green bar is also Door 20.
W4 - Door 18
There is another door here marked Door 17.
The Red Rectangular with the door opening is actually the "Family Room" or "Family RestRoom". Not numbered.
WB1 - Door 16 * Men's RestRoom; Needs to be rotated so door opens into alcove.
WB2 - Door 15 * Lady's Rest Room; Needs to be placed along the Western wall next to WB1.
The peach flooring in front of the Men's and Lady's Rooms form the alcove space. The alcove wall is missing on the map that begins at the SW corner, has a gap in the center and continues on down the wall to the Family RestRoom....
At the Stage, in the lower right corner of the map, Mimi this especially is for you!, where there is a green mark on the outer line on the light red box marked SS, that is a door. It is Door 14.
Also, at the Stage, in the NE corner, there is a light red box marked NS. The green mark is for Door 9. (Almost directly across from Door 8.)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...T-gear-18-Apr-2016-32&p=12692621#post12692621
In mid-August, 2016, upon entry from the Main Western Doors and turning right once inside to walk toward the SW Corner. There are 3 doors: 20, 18, 17. Using your map's key:
W3 - Door 20 * The green bar is also Door 20.
W4 - Door 18
There is another door here marked Door 17.
The Red Rectangular with the door opening is actually the "Family Room" or "Family RestRoom". Not numbered.
WB1 - Door 16 * Men's RestRoom; Needs to be rotated so door opens into alcove.
WB2 - Door 15 * Lady's Rest Room; Needs to be placed along the Western wall next to WB1.
The peach flooring in front of the Men's and Lady's Rooms form the alcove space. The alcove wall is missing on the map that begins at the SW corner, has a gap in the center and continues on down the wall to the Family RestRoom....
At the Stage, in the lower right corner of the map, Mimi this especially is for you!, where there is a green mark on the outer line on the light red box marked SS, that is a door. It is Door 14.
Also, at the Stage, in the NE corner, there is a light red box marked NS. The green mark is for Door 9. (Almost directly across from Door 8.)
Camerabug
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Moving right along...
Since the release of this new information, it seems likely that many of us are settling in on our POI. I think it's wise at this point not to name anyone at all-by initials or location.
I also believe the car in the SWFA parking lot is related to the murder. It's easy to overthink something like this crime, and it's all beginning to come into focus at last.
I feel like a good good review of my notes (discarding many old theories) and highlighting others might bring clarity. I must admit I was way off on the cause of MB's murder. That said, I feel like the current theory that the POI has a connection to LE just feels right. It makes sense.
i wonder why the family is so worried there may be more murders? Presumably they mean themselves, but perhaps not. What do they know? They have been asked not to speak out anymore by the police. The NG podcast was very interesting and informative.
Since the release of this new information, it seems likely that many of us are settling in on our POI. I think it's wise at this point not to name anyone at all-by initials or location.
I also believe the car in the SWFA parking lot is related to the murder. It's easy to overthink something like this crime, and it's all beginning to come into focus at last.
I feel like a good good review of my notes (discarding many old theories) and highlighting others might bring clarity. I must admit I was way off on the cause of MB's murder. That said, I feel like the current theory that the POI has a connection to LE just feels right. It makes sense.
i wonder why the family is so worried there may be more murders? Presumably they mean themselves, but perhaps not. What do they know? They have been asked not to speak out anymore by the police. The NG podcast was very interesting and informative.
ezrah
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Off topic but someone asked on last thread if COC had an alarm system. Iirc They did not have a permit for one therefore don't think they did. Iirc that is not uncommon due to false alarms and fines.
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kmoon
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