TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #34

[Lizzysun]

Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
I think that both of your posts are very plausible and deserve to be looked into. And, yes, I have seen many incredibly stupid criminals in my lifetime.

Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball3804
Certainly. But the thread running through so many posts here is an assumption that is opposite of that - assumption being that the murderer(s) is/are intelligent and cunning with meticulous attention to detail.

So my point was just that if BB had someone do this, I wouldn't think they would be dumb enough to tie themselves to him by liking his FB post the night before.


I think both are at play.

To some degree the killer used cunning, intelligence, and an attention to detail in planning and carrying out the murder (hasn't gotten caught yet nor do we even know if it's a man or woman), this doesn't preclude the fact that the killer could also do something asinine to tie themselves to the murder, e.g., liking a FB entry.

To my mind, the killer thinks, mistakenly I might add, that he's above the law. LE is too stupid to put 2 + 2 together (committing the crime and liking fb entry).

***Mod- I couldn't figure out a way to reply and show both lonetraveler's quote and Cannonball's quote so I just copied Cannonball's #16 replay (which included lonetraveler's original post/quote) and then added

Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball3804

so there's not a link to view Cannonball's #16 post
hope that makes sense

All of this is my opinion not fact.

 

[lonetraveler]

Certainly. But the thread running through so many posts here is an assumption that is opposite of that - assumption being that the murderer(s) is/are intelligent and cunning with meticulous attention to detail.

So my point was just that if BB had someone do this, I wouldn't think they would be dumb enough to tie themselves to him by liking his FB post the night before.


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I agree that sometimes because there is such a long time period between the commission of the crime and an arrest that the murderer gets way too much credit for being the brilliant "mastermind" who committed the 'perfect crime', but truth be told, these 'masterminds' are far and few. I have been totally blindsided before after an arrest is made as to just how dumb criminals can be. Many times we, the public give them way too much credit.

 

[Cannonball3804]

I agree that sometimes because there is such a long time period between the commission of the crime and an arrest that the murderer gets way too much credit for being the brilliant "mastermind" who committed the 'perfect crime', but truth be told, these 'masterminds' are far and few. I have been totally blindsided before after an arrest is made as to just how dumb criminals can be. Many times we, the public give them way too much credit.

Totally agree. I don't believe this perp is in any way a mastermind. In fact, I believe that if this were somewhere other than a rural town with limited murder investigation experience, he would be in jail already. But choosing a church in Midlothian was one of the smarter things he did; he got lucky in other respects and unlucky in others (never expected to be surprised in the bathroom at 4:20 in the AM). Just my theory of course.


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[Razz]

Is shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSJ8rb_oj30&feature=youtu.be

Sorry Nin. This isn't about the door but looking and listening to the video you posted the reporter says: "Bevers was last seen at 4:00 carrying equipment into the church for her morning fitness class" ( or something close to that effect). The time difference doesn't bother me but "was seen carrying equipment into the church...." . Did the reporter know that the video showed her bringing in stuff into the church or is she inferring it?

The thing about this (if it's true)
she was seen carrying equipment into the church is: They were going to exercise inside and she was headed north in the main hallway and disappeared. So,if she had equipment in her hands, exactly where was she taking it?

If someone could answer exactly where they exercised inside, that may tell us where she met up with SP. But it wouldn't have been in the bathroom. And, it wouldn't necessarily have been in the SW corner. Could it have been by the front entrance (WS)
deep into the entrance alcove where we wouldn't have seen anything and...maybe SP left via the front entrance? But then, that really doesn't explain finding her in the SW corner.

Does anyone know or could anyone find out where they exercised inside when it was raining?!

SP knew.

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[lonetraveler]

Quote Originally Posted by lonetraveler View Post
I think that both of your posts are very plausible and deserve to be looked into. And, yes, I have seen many incredibly stupid criminals in my lifetime.

Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball3804
Certainly. But the thread running through so many posts here is an assumption that is opposite of that - assumption being that the murderer(s) is/are intelligent and cunning with meticulous attention to detail.

So my point was just that if BB had someone do this, I wouldn't think they would be dumb enough to tie themselves to him by liking his FB post the night before.


I think both are at play.

To some degree the killer used cunning, intelligence, and an attention to detail in planning and carrying out the murder (hasn't gotten caught yet nor do we even know if it's a man or woman), this doesn't preclude the fact that the killer could also do something asinine to tie themselves to the murder, e.g., liking a FB entry.

To my mind, the killer thinks, mistakenly I might add, that he's above the law. LE is too stupid to put 2 + 2 together (committing the crime and liking fb entry).

***Mod- I couldn't figure out a way to reply and show both lonetraveler's quote and Cannonball's quote so I just copied Cannonball's #16 replay (which included lonetraveler's original post/quote) and then added

Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball3804

so there's not a link to view Cannonball's #16 post
hope that makes sense

All of this is my opinion not fact.

Your thoughts on this murderer IMO are right on. The murderer could be a masterful planner and carry out the plan perfectly but still, due to their very own arrogance underestimate LE's ability to solve the crime. They may very well think that they are smarter than the law and that they can get away with it, especially since there is still no break in the case. If the murderer is a lover or family member they will want to lay low and hope that the case goes cold but if it is someone who feels superior to LE, maybe they will eventually want attention when it becomes clear that the case is getting cold.

 

[SteveS]

Agree with everything, except he didn't make entry into the building at 3:50. LE said he is first seen on camera at 3:50. And we know from what LE told BB and which he relayed in one of his first interviews, that the perp spent "a few minutes" in the kitchen. I am still unclear on how LE knows how many minutes he spent in the kitchen since it's off camera. Do you have any thoughts on that?

1 My thinking doesn't have any conflict moving the entry to even earlier than 3:50, if that's when LE first saw perp on cam. Since they may not have any actual cam shot of perp entering driveway, to set a start time on the property, then we have an unlimited amount of time available for the perp to have been on the exterior, trying to get in.

2 Re the "amount of time in the kitchen" is that they most likely based it on what they saw of the kitchen, not on some timer of some sort. Maybe there was evidence of toweling off, rummaging around, and so forth. And to do such things takes some vague amount time, maybe a few minutes or so, or maybe more.

 

[No it's not]

Little side story on why Oak Farms Dairy is offering the award in the Missy Bevers case. As Floridian, I wasn't aware of their commitment to solving crime cases in North Texas. Nice!

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Da...outs-With-No-Plans-To-Stop-Now-367734701.html

-Nin

 

[SteveS]

presser from April 18th, as wonderfully transcribed by "Galadriel":

'Captain John Spann: Again, we see him walking down one of the hallways, but presumably he went out the way he came in, which was through a metal door that had a glass window that was broken out. And, again, this is all speculation on our part that he broke the window and reached inside to open the door, but we also have a second and third windows [sic] that were broken, but we don't have any evidence that anybody ever went through them. They were just broken.'

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2ykkazqapxcvrm/MB 4-18-16.protected.pdf?dl=0

"Reach inside to open the door", that sounds rather simple. The pic you have in mind could be the (by LE) removed entire lock IMO. The point of entry/ exit ( as presumed and reported by LE) is highly interesting to me, as is the question (still), why the perp did not eventually enter through NE entry doors after breaking the first glass door(s). When did he actually break it and why?

Yes I understand that was LE's initial shoot-from-the-hip idea just hours after the crime.

But again, the physical evidence we see says that the entry was NOT done in such a simple, easy manner. The kitchen door tells a story.

Here's the door, before it was repaired. Look at the signs of hammering around the lock, and the gouges where it was twisted by force to the side and perhaps pried off. Look at the fact that there's no exterior lock on the door. (In contrast, other pics show that the hardware on the other side of the door was intact at the same time as this pic.) To get it to that condition, it took time (and hard work) by the perp that obviously wouldn't have been expended if they could simply reach through the door and push the bar. That door is telling us that it wasn't a simple "break glass and reach in and push bar" process that the perp did to enter.

And once we listen to what it tells us, then there is more to the story, other than it wasn't easy to get in here. It would perhaps also tell us that
1 it's more likely than not that the NE door damage was also an attempt to enter, not just random vandalism
2 that it took time, and hard work, to enter
3 that adjusts some of our time theories, and perhaps the perp's mental state on entering as well
4 it may actually offer the very best explanation for perp's breaking of exterior windows, and interior glass, if perp is feeling frustration/anger over how hard it was to enter (rather than some mysterious or elaborate staging, or randomness)

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

RBBM

I was a fence straddler for several weeks, and to an extent, I still am. When MB's thread was closed over the long July 4th weekend, I spent some time digging deeper into my own theories. I uncovered a few things that are really hard to ignore, and when combined with the things that we know, it's a fairly compelling tale. Until I am presented with a more compelling theory, BB's extended family is at the top of my list. Having said that, I am not going to be shocked if BB's family isn't involved, but it's my top theory. And I pray with every bone in my body that I am wrong.

Other leading theories - corrupt LE/FF (this is my second leading theory), a camper (no motive but would have been in a position to know MB's movements... a lot more skeptical on this one), a scorned church member, or old family friends where the relationship became a bit more "friendly."

As I have said before, the only things that would shock me in this case are a random attack or a B&E gone awry.

ETA - I forgot to quote SteveS, but I think that SP was at CoC well ahead of 3:50, the time he was first seen on camera.

We are thinking in total agreement, GA Peach!

 

[Jethro4WS]

presser from April 18th, as wonderfully transcribed by "Galadriel":

'Captain John Spann: Again, we see him walking down one of the hallways, but presumably he went out the way he came in, which was through a metal door that had a glass window that was broken out. And, again, this is all speculation on our part that he broke the window and reached inside to open the door, but we also have a second and third windows [sic] that were broken, but we don't have any evidence that anybody ever went through them. They were just broken.'

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m2ykkazqapxcvrm/MB 4-18-16.protected.pdf?dl=0

"Reach inside to open the door", that sounds rather simple. The pic you have in mind could be the (by LE) removed entire lock IMO. The point of entry/ exit ( as presumed and reported by LE) is highly interesting to me, as is the question (still), why the perp did not eventually enter through NE entry doors after breaking the first glass door(s). When did he actually break it and why?

Jethro, I think you are following a similar thought process. I am close to saying, the perp made a mistake here.

-Nin

In the sense that I believe there is more than one element of this crime that was over-thought I do believe this was a mistake. One look at the back doors on either the NE or SE would have made it clear what the easiest point of entry/exit was. Just like the chicken and the egg, which came first? So, too, we have which came first the Kitchen Door or the glass at the NE doors?

Since my theory of the crime is that it was well planned and executed there was a particular reason for both. The primary reason I have been beholden to is that it one was done to steer investigators in a particular direction when they analyzed the crime scene and the other was done as the actual entry and exit point. In my opinion, what investigators would ponder would be why go through all the effort with the Kitchen door for no reason and since there was all that effort taken it must have been the point of entry. That is, it is the apparent effort that would steer investigators in one direction. If I were a gambling man I would venture that the Kitchen were meant to look like the entry point and the NE doors the exit point. That said, I believe the NE doors to be both the entry and exit point and the Kitchen door the diversion.

It is true that the hardware on the kitchen door had been worked over just from the markings on the door and there appears to be, though I could be wrong, a sheared screw at the bottom where the hardware would have been attached there. I don't think anything we see with that door is from LE removing it. I believe that most or all of those tools we have seen in SP's possession were part of a tactical breach kit so I don't think the time involved to create the mess they made of the area where the door hardware was attached was all that much.

 

[YouWho]

I would like to have MPD check to see who may have thanked BB'S posts on the day he left for MISS. specifically the one at the airport and then the
one at the Half Shell.

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I had never followed a case before this one, but if I ever do again, take screenshots will be my mantra.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Sorry Nin. This isn't about the door but looking and listening to the video you posted the reporter says: "Bevers was last seen at 4:00 carrying equipment into the church for her morning fitness class" ( or something close to that effect). The time difference doesn't bother me but "was seen carrying equipment into the church...." . Did the reporter know that the video showed her bringing in stuff into the church or is she inferring it?

The thing about this (if it's true)
she was seen carrying equipment into the church is: They were going to exercise inside and she was headed north in the main hallway and disappeared. So,if she had equipment in her hands, exactly where was she taking it?

If someone could answer exactly where they exercised inside, that may tell us where she met up with SP. But it wouldn't have been in the bathroom. And, it wouldn't necessarily have been in the SW corner. Could it have been by the front entrance (WS)
deep into the entrance alcove where we wouldn't have seen anything and...maybe SP left via the front entrance? But then, that really doesn't explain finding her in the SW corner.

Does anyone know or could anyone find out where they exercised inside when it was raining?!

SP knew.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

If by SW corner MPD means the lower left part of the building if you divided it into 4ths (I believe that is what they mean) then yes the main area on the west side from the middle of that area southward would technically be in the Southwest interior of the building and a perfectly valid location where she could be found.

 

[Razz]

In the sense that I believe there is more than one element of this crime that was over-thought I do believe this was a mistake. One look at the back doors on either the NE or SE would have made it clear what the easiest point of entry/exit was. Just like the chicken and the egg, which came first? So, too, we have which came first the Kitchen Door or the glass at the NE doors?

Since my theory of the crime is that it was well planned and executed there was a particular reason for both. The primary reason I have been beholden to is that it one was done to steer investigators in a particular direction when they analyzed the crime scene and the other was done as the actual entry and exit point. In my opinion, what investigators would ponder would be why go through all the effort with the Kitchen door for no reason and since there was all that effort taken it must have been the point of entry. That is, it is the apparent effort that would steer investigators in one direction. If I were a gambling man I would venture that the Kitchen were meant to look like the entry point and the NE doors the exit point. That said, I believe the NE doors to be both the entry and exit point and the Kitchen door the diversion.

It is true that the hardware on the kitchen door had been worked over just from the markings on the door and there appears to be, though I could be wrong, a sheared screw at the bottom where the hardware would have been attached there. I don't think anything we see with that door is from LE removing it. I believe that most or all of those tools we have seen in SP's possession were part of a tactical breach kit so I don't think the time involved to create the mess they made of the area where the door hardware was attached was all that much.

If the NE doors were the entrance, why was SP so.....dry?

And if SP came in and left through the NE door, why is there no video of that either?

How is it we don't see SP again after the murder? If he escaped through the NE doors, wouldn't he have been seen all over the place?

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[ardenmost]

If the NE doors were the entrance, why was SP so.....dry?

And if SP came in and left through the NE door, why is there no video of that either?

How is it we don't see SP again after the murder? If he escaped through the NE doors, wouldn't he have been seen all over the place?

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Remember: We are missing 30 minutes of video from MPD.....

 

[Razz]

Remember: We are missing 30 minutes of video from MPD.....

They said that SP was not seen again after MB was killed.

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[ardenmost]

They said that SP was not seen again after MB was killed.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

I believe even BB has said he has seen additional video.

 

[No it's not]

Sorry Nin. This isn't about the door but looking and listening to the video you posted the reporter says: "Bevers was last seen at 4:00 carrying equipment into the church for her morning fitness class" ( or something close to that effect). The time difference doesn't bother me but "was seen carrying equipment into the church...." . Did the reporter know that the video showed her bringing in stuff into the church or is she inferring it?

The thing about this (if it's true)
she was seen carrying equipment into the church is: They were going to exercise inside and she was headed north in the main hallway and disappeared. So,if she had equipment in her hands, exactly where was she taking it?

If someone could answer exactly where they exercised inside, that may tell us where she met up with SP. But it wouldn't have been in the bathroom. And, it wouldn't necessarily have been in the SW corner. Could it have been by the front entrance (WS)
deep into the entrance alcove where we wouldn't have seen anything and...maybe SP left via the front entrance? But then, that really doesn't explain finding her in the SW corner.

Does anyone know or could anyone find out where they exercised inside when it was raining?!

SP knew.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

Razz, I am almost certain the main crime-scene is located in the bathroom area in the SW corner of the building due to the following video. One can see LE personnel ( 3 individuals) entering the portico doors and making an immediate turn to the left. That would lead to the bathrooms. You can also spot that security camera in the right upper corner. It is very possible, that this particular cam is operated separate from the outside non- functional surveillance cameras and therefore may have recorded the movements of MB and equally not have shown anyone else leaving the church via the SW doors:

Video marker 1:43 ff

[video=youtube;oAonvZ4Gdqo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAonvZ4Gdqo[/video]

Source:
NBC NEWS youtube

 

[Cannonball3804]

I believe even BB has said he has seen additional video.

Yeah, additional video from BEFORE the murder, not after.


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[No it's not]

Yes I understand that was LE's initial shoot-from-the-hip idea just hours after the crime.

But again, the physical evidence we see says that the entry was NOT done in such a simple, easy manner. The kitchen door tells a story.

Here's the door, before it was repaired. Look at the signs of hammering around the lock, and the gouges where it was twisted by force to the side and perhaps pried off. Look at the fact that there's no exterior lock on the door. (In contrast, other pics show that the hardware on the other side of the door was intact at the same time as this pic.) To get it to that condition, it took time (and hard work) by the perp that obviously wouldn't have been expended if they could simply reach through the door and push the bar. That door is telling us that it wasn't a simple "break glass and reach in and push bar" process that the perp did to enter.

And once we listen to what it tells us, then there is more to the story, other than it wasn't easy to get in here. It would perhaps also tell us that
1 it's more likely than not that the NE door damage was also an attempt to enter, not just random vandalism
2 that it took time, and hard work, to enter
3 that adjusts some of our time theories, and perhaps the perp's mental state on entering as well
4 it may actually offer the very best explanation for perp's breaking of exterior windows, and interior glass, if perp is feeling frustration/anger over how hard it was to enter (rather than some mysterious or elaborate staging, or randomness)

All possible, Steve. Just wondering why they would say "reached and opened", if they had observed the same damage we are looking at now. I am open for any scenario, if evidence leads. Right now I am kind of stuck with the entry point and the additional exterior damage.

As I just posted, the camera right outside the portico door may have provided additional insight about Missy's movements. I know, they said they had no outside video tape. Not sure though, if they count that particular porch/ entry area as "outside". It would certainly help, if that cam was operational - obviously.

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

In the sense that I believe there is more than one element of this crime that was over-thought I do believe this was a mistake. One look at the back doors on either the NE or SE would have made it clear what the easiest point of entry/exit was. Just like the chicken and the egg, which came first? So, too, we have which came first the Kitchen Door or the glass at the NE doors?

Since my theory of the crime is that it was well planned and executed there was a particular reason for both. The primary reason I have been beholden to is that it one was done to steer investigators in a particular direction when they analyzed the crime scene and the other was done as the actual entry and exit point. In my opinion, what investigators would ponder would be why go through all the effort with the Kitchen door for no reason and since there was all that effort taken it must have been the point of entry. That is, it is the apparent effort that would steer investigators in one direction. If I were a gambling man I would venture that the Kitchen were meant to look like the entry point and the NE doors the exit point. That said, I believe the NE doors to be both the entry and exit point and the Kitchen door the diversion.

It is true that the hardware on the kitchen door had been worked over just from the markings on the door and there appears to be, though I could be wrong, a sheared screw at the bottom where the hardware would have been attached there. I don't think anything we see with that door is from LE removing it. I believe that most or all of those tools we have seen in SP's possession were part of a tactical breach kit so I don't think the time involved to create the mess they made of the area where the door hardware was attached was all that much.

Wouldn't he have been caught on camera though? You think there was a blind-spot and he knew it? Why the diversion in your opinion?

-Nin