UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[rennie19swan]

There is an article in the Sun today by a former detective. It says that the bin lorry was in the HS for 30mins. At the bottom of the article there are comments by the public, one of which says that when they get there bin emptied (commercial) it takes no time at all and they don't believe the lorry would have needed the 30mins in there. Does anyone think that Corrie could have been put in the bin after a tragic accident involving the lorry reversing?

Yes I have thought this too. If he did have a wee and perhaps slipped or fell or even sat down in a corner for a bit more, then it is easy to imagine a bin lorry sadly reversing into him while he was unawares.


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[suzyjackson]

Surely the CCTV would show the lorry arriving and leaving.



I haven't followed every development in this case, but there seems to have been a lot of contradictions and changes of story. Surely there ought to be agreement on whether C was running or not? Is it because there is a difference between flat-out running, as if to run away from someone or to catch up with them, and casual jogging?

The CCTV must show the bin lorry both arriving and leaving beacuse as we have been repeatedly told no vehicle can move in that area without being captured on camera (or is that going to be contradicted soon?).

The police haven't made that info public and from the differerent versions the family have given us I wonder f they even know for sure.

We've had a few minutes, 20 minutes and now 30.

 

[suzyjackson]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/30697...detective-colin-sutton-analyses-mystery-case/

sorry, forgot to add the link!

From the Sun article

"Yet amid the dismay of solving his whereabouts, few have considered how Corrie came to be in the bin in the first place."

Do they not read here :lol: :lol:

I'm not a big fan of Colin Sutton's, I can't remember what it was now but his inital veiws on the situation included something that wasn't right, I remember thinking then that he didn't seem to have done his research properly. He hasn't explained where attackers would have come from and how they haven't been seen on CCTV, it would have taken more than one person to overpower C and put in in the bin

JMO

 

[suzyjackson]

"The dad of missing Corrie McKeague feels no anger towards the man who gave police the wrong information about the bin believed to have contained his son.

Martin McKeague says he doesn’t want the waste disposal worker’s life to be destroyed by the error.

He said he can only imagine how Hayden Stephens feels about what police have said was a “genuine mistake”.

And he hopes the 26-year-old, who works for waste firm Biffa, can put it behind him.

Martin, 48, of Cupar, Fife said: “One young man’s life has been destroyed. We know we’ve lost Corrie, I don’t want to see another young life destroyed."

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/i-feel-him-missing-airmans-10009599

Is that the first confirmation we've had that the possible charge against HS was for giving the wrong weight?

I still don't buy it "It’s not as simple as the information being read wrong, it’s actually quite in-depth. There seems to have been a genuine mistake made and instead of police being told the correct weight of the bin – which was over 110kg – they were wrongly told it was 11kg."

So, Biffa know that the info isn't easy to read, HS knows it too but still they never thought to check it, I'm boring myself posting that they have some explainign to do but, they really must be a shambiolic organisation.

I do agree with MM that nothing would have changed the outcome, it seems certain that C was dead by 5am but the torture the family have lived through is unimaginable and for that Biffa should take responsibility IMO

JMO

 

[Cherwell]

It's impossible to say as none of us have seen the cctv so we go by other's opinions, which is all that has changed as we hear or see more up to date info and opinions. It's like a moving target, so difficult to hit with accuracy.

Yes, but NU has seen the CCTV so why the contradiction? Either he was running or he wasn't.

 

[Tortoise]

There is an article in the Sun today by a former detective. It says that the bin lorry was in the HS for 30mins. At the bottom of the article there are comments by the public, one of which says that when they get there bin emptied (commercial) it takes no time at all and they don't believe the lorry would have needed the 30mins in there. Does anyone think that Corrie could have been put in the bin after a tragic accident involving the lorry reversing?

Seems the most logical scenario to me.

Especially since it seems they only came forward with the new weight after it emerged that the landfill would be searched.

And could be the very reason the truck went to landfill instead of recycling sorting.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Is that the first confirmation we've had that the possible charge against HS was for giving the wrong weight?

I still don't buy it "It’s not as simple as the information being read wrong, it’s actually quite in-depth. There seems to have been a genuine mistake made and instead of police being told the correct weight of the bin – which was over 110kg – they were wrongly told it was 11kg."

So, Biffa know that the info isn't easy to read, HS knows it too but still they never thought to check it, I'm boring myself posting that they have some explainign to do but, they really must be a shambiolic organisation.

I do agree with MM that nothing would have changed the outcome, it seems certain that C was dead by 5am but the torture the family have lived through is unimaginable and for that Biffa should take responsibility IMO

JMO

I find this whole thing unbelievable. Surely the experts within the organisation (as DS Katie Elliott called them) in reading raw data from a weighing system isn't a lowly Traffic Dispatcher? The experts to interrogate the low level data would be the makers/suppliers of the weighing system?

I feel HS has been hard done by here all round and just hope there is a means to an end in all this.

 

[suzyjackson]

Yes, but NU has seen the CCTV so why the contradiction? Either he was running or he wasn't.

N has said that she only saw the footage prior to CCTV 2 recently, I can only think that for some reason SP told her that C wasn't running and she passed that on in good faith or for some reason she assumed that herself.

Not sure which is more likely but I can't think why she'd said it so many times and for so long if she hadn't been told, she described it as a little skip many many times even when questioned about it which makes me think someone had told her that's what it was

JMO

 

[Coach]

I wonder if C might have been sitting with his back against the bin, possibly at the other side of it - lorries have blind spots, even more so when reversing early morning when it is still quite dark. On the other hand he had already sat in a doorway so it doesn't sound like he would have been too worried about his white jeans (they wash after all) so I also think it's possible that if he had wakened up feeling a bit cold he possibly got into the bin himself. He wouldn't have been expecting it to be emptied at 4am I'm sure. The article in the Sun quoting Colin Sutton, I doubt that even if he has other suspicions surrounding Corrie being out in the bin (possibly an accident involving the lorry), I wonder if he would have kept other options to himself for now as there is no evidence, no body and the investigation is obviously still ongoing. What I can't get my head around is the length of time it took to ascertain a mistake had been made with the weight of 'that' bin. There is something not right, the timing of them finding this out coincides with the search about to begin at the landfill, it doesn't make sense that nobody at Biffa thought to double check the weight given to the Police just in case an error had been made. I'm not convinced. If the lorry was in the HS for 30 mins that seems too long to me to empty one bin. There again the length of time the lorry was in there has changed repeatedly, like everything else in this case. The other person who was questioned, the Police have not yet confirmed whether there will or will not be any charges. Is it the driver that would have given the weight to HS after entering it in his paperwork? I assume that it is then kept in a log but the person who takes the weight of the bin to start with would be the driver wouldn't it? It really is unbelievable that they ruled out the lorry and took all this time to find out the weight was incorrect. Why was it wrong, did the driver give the wrong weight in his paperwork??

 

[suzyjackson]

Seems the most logical scenario to me.

Especially since it seems they only came forward with the new weight after it emerged that the landfill would be searched.

And could be the very reason the truck went to landfill instead of recycling sorting.

The final destination of the lorry would have been determined before the driver set off on his route IMO, he can't just decide to go off piste and take it to the LF, or are you thinking he knew C was in the lorry and asked permission to go to the wrong site?

That certainly would be some cover up but I can't see Biffa going along with that

JMO

 

[Cherwell]

N has said that she only saw the footage prior to CCTV 2 recently, I can only think that for some reason SP told her that C wasn't running and she passed that on in good faith or for some reason she assumed that herself.

Not sure which is more likely but I can't think why she'd said it so many times and for so long if she hadn't been told, she described it as a little skip many many times even when questioned about it which makes me think someone had told her that's what it was

In which case I would have thought they would have put the correction on record. Probably one of the many things we will never know.

 

[suzyjackson]

I wonder if C might have been sitting with his back against the bin, possibly at the other side of it - lorries have blind spots, even more so when reversing early morning when it is still quite dark. On the other hand he had already sat in a doorway so it doesn't sound like he would have been too worried about his white jeans (they wash after all) so I also think it's possible that if he had wakened up feeling a bit cold he possibly got into the bin himself. He wouldn't have been expecting it to be emptied at 4am I'm sure. The article in the Sun quoting Colin Sutton, I doubt that even if he has other suspicions surrounding Corrie being out in the bin (possibly an accident involving the lorry), I wonder if he would have kept other options to himself for now as there is no evidence, no body and the investigation is obviously still ongoing. What I can't get my head around is the length of time it took to ascertain a mistake had been made with the weight of 'that' bin. There is something not right, the timing of them finding this out coincides with the search about to begin at the landfill, it doesn't make sense that nobody at Biffa thought to double check the weight given to the Police just in case an error had been made. I'm not convinced. If the lorry was in the HS for 30 mins that seems too long to me to empty one bin. There again the length of time the lorry was in there has changed repeatedly, like everything else in this case. The other person who was questioned, the Police have not yet confirmed whether there will or will not be any charges. Is it the driver that would have given the weight to HS after entering it in his paperwork? I assume that it is then kept in a log but the person who takes the weight of the bin to start with would be the driver wouldn't it?

I can fully see that happening, some kind of unfortunate accident is a very plausible explanation IMO, what I'm less convinced by is a cover up afterwards.

Yes, the driver would be a total panic if this happened and he got out of the lorry to move the bin and saw what had happened but it's a jump for me to imagine that he decides the best course of action is to put C in the lorry, wouldn't he assume that a person in the BL would be found straight away and them he's in much more trouble than admitting to an accident IMO

IMMO the other person questioned has got to be the driver, the police specifically said HS wasn't the driver, they have said he has no charges to answer. The silence on the other person is telling

JMO

 

[suzyjackson]

In which case I would have thought they would have put the correction on record. Probably one of the many things we will never know.

Tbh I don't think keeping the website up to date will be their top priority, I don't have an issue with that. I can't post any more within the rules here but I agree with you, there is a lot we'll probably never know

 

[Tortoise]

The final destination of the lorry would have been determined before the driver set off on his route IMO, he can't just decide to go off piste and take it to the LF, or are you thinking he knew C was in the lorry and asked permission to go to the wrong site?

That certainly would be some cover up but I can't see Biffa going along with that

JMO

I'm speculating that the driver knew and somehow falsified the weight records. He could have said he noticed the recycling waste was contaminated and needed to go to landfill. I expect that contamination is not so uncommon, with an unlocked bin.

 

[Coach]

I can fully see that happening, some kind of unfortunate accident is a very plausible explanation IMO, what I'm less convinced by is a cover up afterwards.

Yes, the driver would be a total panic if this happened and he got out of the lorry to move the bin and saw what had happened but it's a jump for me to imagine that he decides the best course of action is to put C in the lorry, wouldn't he assume that a person in the BL would be found straight away and them he's in much more trouble than admitting to an accident IMO

IMMO the other person questioned has got to be the driver, the police specifically said HS wasn't the driver, they have said he has no charges to answer. The silence on the other person is telling

JMO

I agree, if a tragic accident happened involving the lorry the most sensible thing a driver could do is to call for help as honesty is the best policy but if the driver panicked, he could have been unwilling to call someone for a number of reasons. I'm not sure if he was a new driver but I don't think he was a regular on that route so he could easily have been quite new in the job or a temp from an agency. I'm not saying that this is the case but there are a number of factors that could lead to someone not adopting the sensible approach after an accident. He could have had alcohol in his system, he could have 9 points on his licence, some taxi drivers have been found out recently for not having a legal right to work in the UK, who knows how some people would react in this situation but sheer panic would have set in. Is it possible that this has been a tragic accident and is it also possible that the lorry bypassed the recycling sorting centre on purpose and went right to the landfill as a result of an accident?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes, but NU has seen the CCTV so why the contradiction? Either he was running or he wasn't.

You would have to ask N as she has seen the footage before the "little skip".

 

[Cherwell]

You would have to ask N as she has seen the footage before the "little skip".

:banghead:

 

[suzyjackson]

I'm speculating that the driver knew and somehow falsified the weight records. He could have said he noticed the recycling waste was contaminated and needed to go to landfill. I expect that contamination is not so uncommon, with an unlocked bin.

The thing is, we don't know how the weight information is captured, the implication from family statements from posters who have some knowledge of the industry and the way I have undertsood them is that the weight recording isn't a manual process, no one writes it down, it is an electronic process and if we are to believe UT the recording equipment was found to be working properly.

What now seems to be tha case is that as the weight wasn't needed for this round (pick up charged by occurance not be weight) it wasn't produced in any kind of easily understandable form and when the police asked Biffa what the weight was an employee (HS?) looked it up but because it's hard to understand the printouts or computer info (I don't think we know what form the output takes) he read it wrongly.

I don't think anyone deliberately gave the wrong weightor misrecorded it, it's one of the many complexities of this case that has led to poor C not yet being found

JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

I agree, if a tragic accident happened involving the lorry the most sensible thing a driver could do is to call for help as honesty is the best policy but if the driver panicked, he could have been unwilling to call someone for a number of reasons. I'm not sure if he was a new driver but I don't think he was a regular on that route so he could easily have been quite new in the job or a temp from an agency. I'm not saying that this is the case but there are a number of factors that could lead to someone not adopting the sensible approach after an accident. He could have had alcohol in his system, he could have 9 points on his licence, some taxi drivers have been found out recently for not having a legal right to work in the UK, who knows how some people would react in this situation but sheer panic would have set in. Is it possible that this has been a tragic accident and is it also possible that the lorry bypassed the recycling sorting centre on purpose and went right to the landfill as a result of an accident?

Although this is a possibility, I would think the excavator drivers would see a body when they are spreading the tipped waste. It could also mean he is not in the BSE area of the tip, so the search wouldn't find him. JMO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

As we are discussing CS article in the Sun, did you all notice the pic of the culprit? A red waste bin, which as we have learnt, is a general waste bin. So another mistake or are we talking general not recycling waste now? Perhaps the substitute driver collected the red bin in error or perhaps there were two lorries? ????