UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[LorriB]

He could have had alcohol in his system... Is it possible that this has been a tragic accident and is it also possible that the lorry bypassed the recycling sorting centre on purpose and went right to the landfill as a result of an accident?

If (and I'm not entirely convinced the new weight is reliable) C did end up in the lorry, something along the lines of the driver covering something up isn't unlikely. Given the time the shift began, the driver could well have had a few drinks that evening prior. What better insentive to cover-up then to avoid a lengthy prison stay.

Also as far as I'm aware, if a body is concealed after an accident isn't the additional charges then something like preventing a burial and perverting the course of justice. So an additional few years on what's already going to be a long sentence might seem a worthwhile risk.

What doesn't seem right in that scenario is what did Corrie do in that 40 minutes prior and why didn't anyone see him?

 

[suzyjackson]

I agree, if a tragic accident happened involving the lorry the most sensible thing a driver could do is to call for help as honesty is the best policy but if the driver panicked, he could have been unwilling to call someone for a number of reasons. I'm not sure if he was a new driver but I don't think he was a regular on that route so he could easily have been quite new in the job or a temp from an agency. I'm not saying that this is the case but there are a number of factors that could lead to someone not adopting the sensible approach after an accident. He could have had alcohol in his system, he could have 9 points on his licence, some taxi drivers have been found out recently for not having a legal right to work in the UK, who knows how some people would react in this situation but sheer panic would have set in. Is it possible that this has been a tragic accident and is it also possible that the lorry bypassed the recycling sorting centre on purpose and went right to the landfill as a result of an accident?

I agree panic makes people do odd thing but thinking through what might have happened

- bin driver hits C some how

- gets out of cab to move bin and sees what he's done

- is C killed instantly by a slow moving lorry, I;d guess very injured but not dead is a split second

- driver panics and rather than call an ambulance decides to put C in his lorry

- he then has to manhandle him into the bin, this I just don't get, did he tip the bin on it's side and some how roll C in? That's not easy, did he literally lift him up and into the bin, one person couldn;t do that IMO

- he's lucky as no one comes into the HS while he's doing it

- he carries on with his route as normal

- he gets lucky as no one notice a body at any time prior to the waste getting into the LF

- he's lucky as HS gives the police the worng weight

- he's lucky that no one at Biifa realises the error

- he's able to convince SP he knows nothing

- he carries on his normal life and no one realises

Thinking out loud but I can't see that as happening but then again very odd things do occur

JMO

 

[Cherwell]

As we are discussing CS article in the Sun, did you all notice the pic of the culprit? A red waste bin, which as we have learnt, is a general waste bin. So another mistake or are we talking general not recycling waste now? Perhaps the substitute driver collected the red bin in error or perhaps there were two lorries? ????

I'm not convinced that Mr Sutton has done his homework on the facts of the case.
The photo is a library photograph of a Biffa waste bin. (Quite funny how the headline above it is "Red Herring".)
There's also a photo of "Corrie's shirt", which clearly it is not.

 

[Coach]

If (and I'm not entirely convinced the new weight is reliable) C did end up in the lorry, something along the lines of the driver covering something up isn't unlikely. Given the time the shift began, the driver could well have had a few drinks that evening prior. What better insentive to cover-up then to avoid a lengthy prison stay.

Also as far as I'm aware, if a body is concealed after an accident isn't the additional charges then something like preventing a burial and perverting the course of justice. So an additional few years on what's already going to be a long sentence might seem a worthwhile risk.

What doesn't seem right in that scenario is what did Corrie do in that 40 minutes prior and why didn't anyone see him?

Good post. That's right, if he was in the HS for 30-40 mins before the lorry arrived then it does make sense that he wasn't seen because he was in the bin before the lorry got there. I think if he was in the bin before the lorry arrived then I think he got into the bin himself. I did wonder if it is possible that after getting into the bin he accidentally knocked himself out or choked being sick or something but the bins were all forensically checked went they? There have been so many twists and turns, I'm not even convinced I believe the new bin weight. I do think that the possibility of an accident involving the lorry reversing is very plausible - just as Corrie wouldn't have expected a reversing lorry at that time in the morning the driver would also not have been expecting someone to be there. The weight being wrong and taking so many months for this to unfold is doesn't add up. When the specialist data company came onboard, why were they not able to check the details of the weight as I thought they specialised in checking data?

 

[suzyjackson]

I'm not convinced that Mr Sutton has done his homework on the facts of the case.
The photo is a library photograph of a Biffa waste bin. (Quite funny how the headline above it is "Red Herring".)
There's also a photo of "Corrie's shirt", which clearly it is not.

That might be what I was remembering above, he definitely had some facts wrong the first time he commrnted

 

[Squamous]

That Sun article seems pretty flimsy. I don't see why Corrie wearing a smart shirt would suddenly mean he wouldn't kip in a bin once he'd had a skinful. Has Mr Sutton never been out on the lash?!

 

[Amonet]

There is an article in the Sun today by a former detective. It says that the bin lorry was in the HS for 30mins. At the bottom of the article there are comments by the public, one of which says that when they get there bin emptied (commercial) it takes no time at all and they don't believe the lorry would have needed the 30mins in there. Does anyone think that Corrie could have been put in the bin after a tragic accident involving the lorry reversing?

That stirs things up a bit, doesn't it? Well done, Sun...

The problem is that Colin Sutton also seems to be using Midsummer's timeline! Would he have access to any other information that hasn't been posted online? And if he had got that information from someone on the investigating team, would he be allowed to share it in the Sun in this way?

Sutton also says that Corrie took pride in his appearance, therefore he wouldn't climb into a cardboard-filled bin. But Corrie had already slept in a doorway. It was the end of the night, not the beginning of a night out. At the start of a night out, yes he wants to dress up nice and comb and gel his hair. But at the end of a night out he might not care so much? He's in the military...might not be army, but the military are used to not showering for days on end and sleeping in not great conditions. A cardboard-filled bin could be considered a warm, clean, shelter by someone who's used to looking for resources in places that others can't see them.

We've looked at the camera situation and wondered if Corrie could have crossed from the horseshoe to the Short Brackland bin bay while the clothes shop (I'm starting to forget the names of things now) camera was facing the other way (as it faced the Greggs frontage during the running man footage). So Sutton is saying that an attacker could have left out of sight during the same kind of camera situation. But we've then been assured that if someone ran up Short Brackland the bin bay is about as far as they could get without being seen on camera. So police do have that footage, they have followed every person around BSE during those hours, so they don't just have an idea of Corrie's movements but also all those people who they've asked for help identifying, plus anyone else who appeared on CCTV. They can use that to see if anyone stayed in the horseshoe area for more time than needed to walk through the horseshoe off camera, and then came out either looking more disheveled than they went in, or running, or looking around them more than is natural, or whatever signs there might be of someone who'd just accidentally killed or seriously injured a man in an altercation and placed him in a bin.

It's conjecture that sells Sun newspapers, but does it really hold up? If it does hold up, then I would think that the police would be able to add 2+2 together to work out who might be involved in that hypothetical fight/altercation, so I'm not too worried about that, even if it wasn't caught on camera.

 

[Taskforce88]

I understand that another article in the Telegraph? said that a bin lorry was stationed for 30 mins nearby, just sitting. Perhaps that is what the Sun article is mentioning, with one paper getting the location of the 30 min wait wrong?

30 mins is along time, even in the early hours, someone would have seen or heard something.

Also you would bother putting someone into the bin, you would simply place them in the back of the bin lorry, much easier.

 

[Scorpio1]

An attacker could have slipped in and out when the CCTV camera was simply pointing away.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/30697...detective-colin-sutton-analyses-mystery-case/
so an attacker could slip out unseen but corrie couldn't leave unseen, are they now saying that the CCTV is not 100% and it is possible to slip in and out unseen!

 

[Officer Dibble]

As we are discussing CS article in the Sun, did you all notice the pic of the culprit? A red waste bin, which as we have learnt, is a general waste bin. So another mistake or are we talking general not recycling waste now? Perhaps the substitute driver collected the red bin in error or perhaps there were two lorries? ????

Interesting!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Guys, I'm pretty sure The Sun nicked the timeline that Midsummer did on here, I recall discussing it at the time... thing is, the timeline for the bin lorry was based on conjecture only, supposed shift start times etc, and was queried several times but never clarified.

Basically, the 30 minutes is probably just a rumour (from here) that grew legs. Ignore it.

 

[Amonet]

As we are discussing CS article in the Sun, did you all notice the pic of the culprit? A red waste bin, which as we have learnt, is a general waste bin. So another mistake or are we talking general not recycling waste now? Perhaps the substitute driver collected the red bin in error or perhaps there were two lorries? ????

It was just a stock photo of a bin, though. I don't think the Sun would worry too much about that kind of fine detail.

If it was a general waste load, then that would change my opinion that Corrie got in there voluntarily, but 'most' of the time through this case we have been told it was recycling picked up about an hour after the final CCTV of Corrie entering the horseshoe?

 

[Taskforce88]

Cant believe people still buy and read the Sun.

 

[Amonet]

Although this is a possibility, I would think the excavator drivers would see a body when they are spreading the tipped waste. It could also mean he is not in the BSE area of the tip, so the search wouldn't find him. JMO.

I don't believe excavator drivers would have seen anything....they'd be too far away and not taking notice of details of what they're moving. The article about the NZ man in a bale suggests to me that a body would not be intact by the time it left the horseshoe. (Sorry, but I think it is relevant to note the difference, because it does affect what someone could reasonably ascertain to be a human being when the load is dropped and then moved into place at the landfill by someone operating heavy machinery.)

 

[Amonet]

Several posters here have mentioned MIS (Forbes' team) in relation to the bin data checking. SP said they would accept information from MIS but that they definitely wouldn't be giving them any information or data.

 

[Taskforce88]

I don't believe excavator drivers would have seen anything....they'd be too far away and not taking notice of details of what they're moving. The article about the NZ man in a bale suggests to me that a body would not be intact by the time it left the horseshoe. (Sorry, but I think it is relevant to note the difference, because it does affect what someone could reasonably ascertain to be a human being when the load is dropped and then moved into place at the landfill by someone operating heavy machinery.)

Yep, anyone who has been in one knows that you are very high up and in a place like a landfill, spreading similar looking waste all day, you can easy switch off.

On the other hand if a driver had to stop and jump out every time they seen something suspicious then it would be a very long day.

You probably wouldn't miss a body if it was pointed out to you but it may be camouflaged or very badly damaged to be noticeable from inside.

 

[Cherwell]

An attacker could have slipped in and out when the CCTV camera was simply pointing away.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/30697...detective-colin-sutton-analyses-mystery-case/
so an attacker could slip out unseen but corrie couldn't leave unseen, are they now saying that the CCTV is not 100% and it is possible to slip in and out unseen!

"They" being, er, The Sun. :giggle:

Guys, I'm pretty sure The Sun nicked the timeline that Midsummer did on here, I recall discussing it at the time... thing is, the timeline for the bin lorry was based on conjecture only, supposed shift start times etc, and was queried several times but never clarified.

Basically, the 30 minutes is probably just a rumour (from here) that grew legs. Ignore it.

So my take on what's happened here is the Sun has phoned up Colin Sutton and asked him to do a "solve the Corrie mystery" piece. They have supplied him with a lot of spurious "facts", and he has gone ahead and taken it all at face value.

 

[Shiressleuth]

An attacker could have slipped in and out when the CCTV camera was simply pointing away.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/30697...detective-colin-sutton-analyses-mystery-case/
so an attacker could slip out unseen but corrie couldn't leave unseen, are they now saying that the CCTV is not 100% and it is possible to slip in and out unseen!

Hmmm. And do you remember the general waste bins talked about being collected Monday - didn't those get tested and then they decided to search LF? What if there was an altercation in the other bin area and another bin lorry (the outstanding vehicle)? JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yep, anyone who has been in one knows that you are very high up and in a place like a landfill, spreading similar looking waste all day, you can easy switch off.

On the other hand if a driver had to stop and jump out every time they seen something suspicious then it would be a very long day.

You probably wouldn't miss a body if it was pointed out to you but it may be camouflaged or very badly damaged to be noticeable from inside.

My brother is a digger driver and he doesn't miss a thing. You have to watch and concentrate on what you are doing.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

"They" being, er, The Sun. :giggle:



So my take on what's happened here is the Sun has phoned up Colin Sutton and asked him to do a "solve the Corrie mystery" piece. They have supplied him with a lot of spurious "facts", and he has gone ahead and taken it all at face value.

Here is the section from Mid's timeline (it's linked in post #1 of every thread)

**0352: Bin lorry departs (Hollow Lane) for BSE.**
**0400: Bin lorry enters SB.**
**0415: Bin lorry driver fills in collection paperwork.**
**0420: Bins lorry driver starts collection procedure** of ONE GREGGS BIN containing cardboard and paper with a weight of 11kgs of material in it. Three teenagers seen at the rear of Cornwalk Shopping Centre by bin man.
EXAMPLE OF PROCEDURE AND TIME TAKEN.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sRL3SS98mxM
0424: Bin man finishes collection procedure.

Midsummer points out ** means speculative guesstimate. I, personally, would guesstimate that it's wrong, but The Sun ran with it at the time and obviously didn't check a confirmed source. Fairly certain N later said 4:19 - 4:24 which makes more sense, but who's to say binman didn't stop for a cig, fight, wee, hook up, whatever. I dunno.