GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #13

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So I don't perceive any incompetence here at all.



Just the fact that the A&S pursued one suspect with so much vigour, the whole works, latest forensic techniques, laser trace evidence recovery, forensic chemistry you name it, concentrating their efforts on one suspects flat in the block and came up with what for the big money spent, zilch.

The people in control of budgets behind the scenes might disagree

Then suddenly out of the blue, who is this man arrested, a serial killer who followed Jo home. No, the lanky chap next door, the one who was interviewed early on and eliminated from their enquiries. Surely he must have had a cast iron alibi that was thoroughly checked out for him to be eliminated so quickly. If VT is the culprit, maybe a few cadaver scent dogs could have saved them a lot of money, time and energy.
 
Yes, just goggled IBM origins but you would know all about that working up and down the country with councils, like you said.

So did I and I'm totally shocked, not only at their origins but all the things they have been involved in and still are.
 
Just the fact that the A&S pursued one suspect with so much vigour, the whole works, latest forensic techniques, laser trace evidence recovery, forensic chemistry you name it, concentrating their efforts on one suspects flat in the block and came up with what for the big money spent, zilch.

The people in control of budgets behind the scenes might disagree

Then suddenly out of the blue, who is this man arrested, a serial killer who followed Jo home. No, the lanky chap next door, the one who was interviewed early on and eliminated from their enquiries. Surely he must have had a cast iron alibi that was thoroughly checked out for him to be eliminated so quickly. If VT is the culprit, maybe a few cadaver scent dogs could have saved them a lot of money, time and energy.

It would be incompetence if they hadn't used the "latest forensic techniques" in their search for evidence, and if such techniques had failed to produce any evidence, I don't see how one could blame the police for that. But most importantly; you have no idea what evidence they found. None of us do.

You state that A&SC "pursued one suspect with so much vigour", and that VT "must have had a cast iron alibi" and was "eliminated from their enquiries" when he was "interviewed early on". You state all these things as if they were facts, when they're really nothing more than part of the script that you've written in your head. You have no idea as to when VT (or indeed anyone else for that matter) was first interviewed by police, you have no idea what questions he was asked, what his responses were, or what conclusions were reached as a result.

Incidentally, cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomp. It normally takes about three days for putrefaction to set in, and for decomp to be present. So they're of no use whatsover unless you've got a corpse that's been dead for that long. If (and it's a big if, since proceedings are active and so forth) VT was the culprit, then the corpse would have been dumped well before that, and thus the cadaver dogs would have been quite useless. And just because there haven't been any press reports of cadaver dogs present at Canynge Road, that doesn't mean to say that they weren't there at some point.
 
Sorry for being a bit behind. I have missed a lot since the original threads were closed while admin researched the legal position regarding discussing the case.

Lots of people on this thread are talking about voyeurism. Can I ask where that has come from, or is it just pure speculation?
 
It would be incompetence if they hadn't used the "latest forensic techniques" in their search for evidence, and if such techniques had failed to produce any evidence, I don't see how one could blame the police for that. But most importantly; you have no idea what evidence they found. None of us do.

You state that A&SC "pursued one suspect with so much vigour", and that VT "must have had a cast iron alibi" and was "eliminated from their enquiries" when he was "interviewed early on". You state all these things as if they were facts, when they're really nothing more than part of the script that you've written in your head. You have no idea as to when VT (or indeed anyone else for that matter) was first interviewed by police, you have no idea what questions he was asked, what his responses were, or what conclusions were reached as a result.

Incidentally, cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomp. It normally takes about three days for putrefaction to set in, and for decomp to be present. So they're of no use whatsover unless you've got a corpse that's been dead for that long. If (and it's a big if, since proceedings are active and so forth) VT was the culprit, then the corpse would have been dumped well before that, and thus the cadaver dogs would have been quite useless. And just because there haven't been any press reports of cadaver dogs present at Canynge Road, that doesn't mean to say that they weren't there at some point.

I tried to put the two Post's up as a double quote the Poster you spoke to, I could not make them both come up only your's.

I agree none of us know what the A&S know, what the Forensic evidence is, and what they have on VT, the A&S must have something substantial for the CPS to go ahead and the two Court appearances so far.

I did wonder about cadaver dogs in all this, and we have never seen any dogs being taken into the Flat's, if this was done I do think the Media would have been there ready to Broadcast about the dog's, it could have been done away from the Media though, however the Media were present outside the Flat's for some time.
I have written below about cadaver dog's and the time it takes to mark and scent where a body has been in situ, then the body has been removed, that makes in IMO that the A&S knew JY was not kept in the Flat's anywhere, or in an outside shed for a long period of time, because the dogs would mark that Area if she had been placed there, and that perhap's A&S knew this and that JY was moved quite quickly after her demise, although the dogs could have been taken in on the quiet, although I can't see why the A&S would want to hide a cadaver dog being taken into the Flat's, and surrounding Area.

Cadaver dogs and marking/scenting.
After death body temperature begins to drop chemical changes in muscles begin and autolysis advances, this is the odour that the cadaver dog mark's, the body temperature has to start to drop then continue to drop, for the chemical changes to take place, the start of the autolysis start's after one and half Hour's to two Hour's after death, then if JY was placed somewhere after the autolysis advances started one and half to two Hour's after her demise, then the dog would mark that Area, it does not take day's for the odour to start.
 
This thread is about the murder of Joanna Yeates Clifton - not the workings of councils, some obscure agreements, etc. If you can not tie your comment to the case and the case against the accused, it doesn't belong here.

ALSO - if posters start getting all snarky and rude again - I will close this thread in a heartbeat. Things have been going very well here and I expect that to continue.

Thank you,

Salem
Mod
 
It would be incompetence if they hadn't used the "latest forensic techniques" in their search for evidence, and if such techniques had failed to produce any evidence, I don't see how one could blame the police for that. But most importantly; you have no idea what evidence they found. None of us do.

You state that A&SC "pursued one suspect with so much vigour", and that VT "must have had a cast iron alibi" and was "eliminated from their enquiries" when he was "interviewed early on". You state all these things as if they were facts, when they're really nothing more than part of the script that you've written in your head. You have no idea as to when VT (or indeed anyone else for that matter) was first interviewed by police, you have no idea what questions he was asked, what his responses were, or what conclusions were reached as a result.

Incidentally, cadaver dogs are trained to detect decomp. It normally takes about three days for putrefaction to set in, and for decomp to be present. So they're of no use whatsover unless you've got a corpse that's been dead for that long. If (and it's a big if, since proceedings are active and so forth) VT was the culprit, then the corpse would have been dumped well before that, and thus the cadaver dogs would have been quite useless. And just because there haven't been any press reports of cadaver dogs present at Canynge Road, that doesn't mean to say that they weren't there at some point.

Cadaver dogs can detect decomp from about 2 hours after death.

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

''PRELIMINARY RESULTS: The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes. However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours''

Edited to add ...just noticed Trio has said similar.
 
Sorry for being a bit behind. I have missed a lot since the original threads were closed while admin researched the legal position regarding discussing the case.

Lots of people on this thread are talking about voyeurism. Can I ask where that has come from, or is it just pure speculation?

It's speculation Frodo. It stems from the press speculating prior to VT's arrest that there may have been a way to get inside JY's flat from within the building. Several days before VT's arrest the press then reported that there was a blocked-up door linking the flats of JY and VT and also provided floor plans showing the layout of both flats and the location of that blocked up door.

On the forums discussions about the possibility of VT being a peeping tom followed.

My own view on it is that I think the press were onto something, and possibly because an insider (in the police?) gave them a tip off. At the time the press started with the "door" theme VT wasn't on the radar (or publically) as a suspect but obviously he was on the radar then. It was just a couple of days after the "door" story that VT was arrested. The press obviously knew at that point where the spotlight had turned. Once the press started focusing on his flat VT himself must have been expecting a knock on his door again soon from the police too.

I wonder whether the press were told by the police to publish those articles about VT's flat and that door prior to VT's arrest, hoping he'd panic and slip up or do something in some way - I don't happen to believe it was just coincidence that the press focused on his flat when they did at the time.
 
This thread is about the murder of Joanna Yeates Clifton - not the workings of councils, some obscure agreements, etc. If you can not tie your comment to the case and the case against the accused, it doesn't belong here.

ALSO - if posters start getting all snarky and rude again - I will close this thread in a heartbeat. Things have been going very well here and I expect that to continue.

Thank you,

Salem
Mod

Well said, Salem.
That needed to be stated.
I was getting quite uncomfortable reading the mood behind the lines of some of the posters....completely not appropriate.
Thank you.
 
I wonder whether the press were told by the police to publish those articles about VT's flat and that door prior to VT's arrest, hoping he'd panic and slip up or do something in some way - I don't happen to believe it was just coincidence that the press focused on his flat when they did at the time.

Yes, you see what surprises me is that the occupants of the adjoining flat hadn't been mentioned until that point.

It doesn't take the Daily Mail et al to point out to me that, with two flats on the floor, there will be party walls. And as it's obviously a conversion, the presence of at least one blocked-up door was virtually a certainty.

Not that I think there's necessarily anything in the 'voyeur' theory; it was the greater ease of access that attracted my attention. Easier to come and go between those two flats, and to the parking area, without being seen. (And I'm not talking about any blocked-up doors there)
 
Sorry for being a bit behind. I have missed a lot since the original threads were closed while admin researched the legal position regarding discussing the case.

Lots of people on this thread are talking about voyeurism. Can I ask where that has come from, or is it just pure speculation?

It is pure speculation as goldielox said.

It is possible the motive could be a grudge of some kind but doubtful as none of JY's friends or family have stated that she knew the suspect.

The most intriguing aspect of the case for me is the fact LE have not yet released CJ from his bail conditions. Could this suggest one of the vehicles under his control was used to travel to the lane?

If that were true, who was the crying female who tipped off police?
 
Aneurin =You state all these things as if they were facts, when they're really nothing more than part of the script that you've written in your head. You have no idea as to when VT (or indeed anyone else for that matter) was first interviewed by police, you have no idea what questions he was asked, what his responses were, or what conclusions were reached as a result.


Police spoke to both Tanja and Tabak early in the inquiry but had ruled them out. Officers spoke to the couple in the early stages of the inquiry but ruled out Tabak as a suspect. They have taken a detailed statement from both him and Tanja about his movements after December 17 when Jo was last seen alive after a night out.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/01/22/jo-yeates-murder-suspect-vincent-tabak-s-girlfriend-tanja-morson-devastated-at-his-arrest-115875-22866637/

There is a basis for what my post contained, obviously not part of a script just written in my head, as the post above suggested.

Thanks Trio, Robin Hood for your useful info about the cadaver dogs, much appreciated.
 
I asked on another forum and nobody answered so I will try here. Does anybody know if the DNA collected during this investigation can be put into the database for hits on other crimes ? I assume VT's can but I'm refering to others like CJ etc.

I think one of the reasons CJ is still on bail is possibly because it was the Volvo seen on the lane and the fact he's trying to sue for wrongful arrest.

The crying female IMO is EW or maybe TM, saying it was anonymous could be to protect them from any backlash. JMO
 
I asked on another forum and nobody answered so I will try here. Does anybody know if the DNA collected during this investigation can be put into the database for hits on other crimes ? I assume VT's can but I'm refering to others like CJ etc.

Forensic testing on the necklace from 1974 came back negative but tests are ongoing on GC's clothing.

That would be one helluva coincidence if CJ were cleared of the Canynge Rd murder only to be indicted for another 37 years ago!
 
Forensic testing on the necklace from 1974 came back negative but tests are ongoing on GC's clothing.

That would be one helluva coincidence if CJ were cleared of the Canynge Rd murder only to be indicted for another 37 years ago!


Exactly ! I noticed that the tests for GC was still being done and there's other murders in Bristol in the area that include two tone BMW's and leather netted driving gloves and my mind went overtime.
 
Thank you that's really helpful to clear up the voyeur issue.

I wondered if I'd missed some information!
 
I asked on another forum and nobody answered so I will try here. Does anybody know if the DNA collected during this investigation can be put into the database for hits on other crimes ? I assume VT's can but I'm refering to others like CJ etc.

All DNA samples collected by the Police end up in the national database. There is currently no process for getting your sample removed and there is no time limit.
 
All DNA samples collected by the Police end up in the national database. There is currently no process for getting your sample removed and there is no time limit.


Thanks Chester but they are destroyed IF no crime has been committed so if no crime has been committed, for instance re. CJ then are they 'allowed' to be run through the database ? IYSWIM.
 
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