GUILTY UK - PC Gordon Semple, 59, Southwark, London, 1 April 2016

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RIDICULOUS!

Gordon Chree ‏@gordonchree [video=twitter;796753349127311360]https://twitter.com/gordonchree/status/796753349127311360[/video]
The jury in the Stefano Brizzi murder trial will be back at the Old Bailey tomorrow to begin a fifth day of deliberations
 
Thanks for hanging in there with the updates, Tortoise. Let's hope the majority direction is enough to get this one done and dusted for the family's sake.
 
Tortoise said:
Or, is the manslaughter option confusing them?
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I think this might well be the reason for the long deliberations.

The prosecution was not able to show clearly that Brizzi premeditated the killing, imo.
 
Elainera said:
I think this might well be the reason for the long deliberations.

The prosecution was not able to show clearly that Brizzi premeditated the killing, imo.
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Ah, is that where you are stuck on deciding if this was murder Elainera? Murder doesn't mean it has to have been pre-meditated. All that's needed is intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm at the time of the act.
 
Tortoise said:
Ah, is that where you are stuck on deciding if this was murder Elainera? Murder doesn't mean it has to have been pre-meditated. All that's needed is intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm at the time of the act.
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I'm not a native English speaker. For me "premeditated" and "intent to kill" seems to be the same. It probably isn't, at least not in the legal sense? But even so, I don't think prosecution has shown clearly the "intention to kill". But this is only from what I read here and in articles. Maybe in court it was demonstrated clearly. Looking at the facts that have been presented (ignoring Brizzi's sobs), to me it looks like reckless negligence. Isn't the intent to kill only a presumption in this case? We don't know whether Brizzi found Gordon's police batch before or after he died, there's no proof he found it and then killed Gordon out of fear of being set up. Or did I overlook something?

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the guy, he gives me the creeps, I have no sympathy for him and I'm disgusted by what he did to Gordon. But I'm trying to look only at the presented facts, the proof for murder, and I'm not sure it has been clearly presented. I guess the jury feels similarly.
 
Elainera said:
I'm not a native English speaker. For me "premeditated" and "intent to kill" seems to be the same. It probably isn't, at least not in the legal sense? But even so, I don't think prosecution has shown clearly the "intention to kill". But this is only from what I read here and in articles. Maybe in court it was demonstrated clearly. Looking at the facts that have been presented (ignoring Brizzi's sobs), to me it looks like reckless negligence. Isn't the intent to kill only a presumption in this case? We don't know whether Brizzi found Gordon's police batch before or after he died, there's no proof he found it and then killed Gordon out of fear of being set up. Or did I overlook something?

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand the guy, he gives me the creeps, I have no sympathy for him and I'm disgusted by what he did to Gordon. But I'm trying to look only at the presented facts, the proof for murder, and I'm not sure it has been clearly presented. I guess the jury feels similarly.
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Premeditated means making a plan in advance. Intent is meaning to do what you do. Sorry I hope you don't take that as condescending, it's just my attempt to help you with definitions.

The pathologist said pressure would have had to be applied for minutes to cause death, it doesn't happen in seconds. That is a long time to apply pressure, so how would that be in keeping with an accident? Add to that what he first said to officers, and at the police station, that he had a voice in his head telling him to kill Gordon. Why would he invent such a story?



. .
 
Tortoise said:
Premeditated means making a plan in advance. Intent is meaning to do what you do. Sorry I hope you don't take that as condescending, it's just my attempt to help you with definitions.

The pathologist said pressure would have had to be applied for minutes to cause death, it doesn't happen in seconds. That is a long time to apply pressure, so how would that be in keeping with an accident? Add to that what he first said to officers, and at the police station, that he had a voice in his head telling him to kill Gordon. Why would he invent such a story?

. .
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Not taking it as condescending :)

Thank you for explaining. I understand.

My hesitation remains though. I feel we just don't know if he meant to kill Gordon or not. His talk at the police station could have been from drugs. He applied pressure on Gordon's neck by sitting on him, is that right? He might not have noticed that Gordon was struggling and dying because, again, he was high on drugs and/or lost in his own sexual pleasure. He was not attentive.

I'm not saying it was definitely not murder, I'm just not really sure on that point. There is some doubt.

Which I guess the jury is struggling with too.
 
Am I recalling correctly, that when he noticed that Gordon was no longer moving, instead of doing CPR or calling an ambulance etc - he just went through Gordon's pockets instead ...
 
Gordon Chree ‏@gordonchree [video=twitter;797028859367538688]https://twitter.com/gordonchree/status/797028859367538688[/video]
The jury in the Stefano Brizzi murder trial has resumed deliberations for a fifth day
 
I'm thinking they're liking the tea and biscuits too much.
 
Doesn't there come a point at which it doesn't make sense to accept a verdict if it's having to be derived from someone giving in and changing their mind? I think it's clear this jury is in deadlock, if there isn't an immediate majority.

I'd discharge them.
 
just subscribing and adding this update


Gordon Chree Verified account ‏@gordonchree 11m11 minutes ago

The jury in the Stefano Brizzi murder trial has been sent home for the weekend and will resume deliberations on Monday
 
I agree Tortoise. They have been offered a majority verdict but they are clearly nowhere near any kind of consensus.

I see a retrial looming
 
The moral of the story is not to listen to my waters.
 
Gordon Chree Verified account ‏@gordonchree 2h2 hours ago

The jury in the Stefano Brizzi murder trial has resumed deliberations for a sixth day
 
I honestly think that was the right verdict, but as time went on I didn't think they'd get there.

Well done jury!
 
Oh, and thanks Tortoise and everyone else for updates and comments.
 
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