VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #8

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I also think he killed the pastor so Mark would not see what he had done to his family, Too true, Mark probably came in using a spare key and would have searched every room. If he realized he needed to fight he probably would have been a formidable opponent.

why didn't he bring the bodies?\
Hm great question. How about he had been watching and waiting for a time when nobody would see him load them into the car (no garage I believe), but that all changes upon the arrival of the pastor?

He realizes then that people aren't going to give up looking for Mel based on the story of the movies and the checking of the basement, so he decides to abandon the house. He leaves the bodies because he feels he doesn't know when another person will show up, and getting the bodies out would take time, both in physically getting them to the car as well as waiting and watching for a moment when the neighbors are asleep or away. He might have then staged the house and pastor's car so that they made sense for some kind of narrative (home invasion/ kidnapping?).

I don't know when he contacts his horrorcore buddies but after or during the staging of the pastor's car might be a good time-- he is feeling confident and clever after having slipped from the cops grasp 3 times-- but he does need help because he is also clearly implicated. Maybe he asks them for a place to stay, leveraging his imagined status as one who 'kills for real'. Based on how they respond to him, confusion- horror- disbelief- rejection, it may affect his thinking. Now he is a murderer with no home and no friends. Who is he, where should he go? A stretch, but this could also explain why the neighbor calls the police instead of going to help him get the car out of the ditch: maybe he's yakking on the phone and his cel phone voice is transmitting the random word like bodies and satan?

So when he doesn't like the response his friends give his news, he loses steam. Instead of going to the airport straitaway, he putters around Farmville, chatting up the tow truck driver, the diner waitstaff, the cabbie. He's confused and trying to figure out what to do next. Should he use the Niederbrock's bank cards or cheques if he took them? Should he steal a car? Or maybe he should just commit suicide? After some human contact, his confidence goes up and a sense of self preservation kicks in, and he goes to the airport. If he hasn't been caught yet maybe he could still get away with it-- and if he took the cheques or bank cards, he'll be able to use them somewhere that the real owner is not known.
 
...all that makes sense Sally,
I also still think that he was acting in sort of a auto pilot mode after the murders.I don't think the reality of it had kicked in.I think that because of the way he's seen acting on the surveillance video in the airport when he gets arrested,completely calm also because of the way he talked to the cab driver about him and Emma getting back together ....
 
Sally Trueheart said:
I also think he killed the pastor so Mark would not see what he had done to his family, Too true, Mark probably came in using a spare key and would have searched every room. If he realized he needed to fight he probably would have been a formidable opponent.

why didn't he bring the bodies?\
Hm great question. How about he had been watching and waiting for a time when nobody would see him load them into the car (no garage I believe), but that all changes upon the arrival of the pastor?

He realizes then that people aren't going to give up looking for Mel based on the story of the movies and the checking of the basement, so he decides to abandon the house. He leaves the bodies because he feels he doesn't know when another person will show up, and getting the bodies out would take time, both in physically getting them to the car as well as waiting and watching for a moment when the neighbors are asleep or away. He might have then staged the house and pastor's car so that they made sense for some kind of narrative (home invasion/ kidnapping?).

I don't know when he contacts his horrorcore buddies but after or during the staging of the pastor's car might be a good time-- he is feeling confident and clever after having slipped from the cops grasp 3 times-- but he does need help because he is also clearly implicated. Maybe he asks them for a place to stay, leveraging his imagined status as one who 'kills for real'. Based on how they respond to him, confusion- horror- disbelief- rejection, it may affect his thinking. Now he is a murderer with no home and no friends. Who is he, where should he go? A stretch, but this could also explain why the neighbor calls the police instead of going to help him get the car out of the ditch: maybe he's yakking on the phone and his cel phone voice is transmitting the random word like bodies and satan?

So when he doesn't like the response his friends give his news, he loses steam. Instead of going to the airport straitaway, he putters around Farmville, chatting up the tow truck driver, the diner waitstaff, the cabbie. He's confused and trying to figure out what to do next. Should he use the Niederbrock's bank cards or cheques if he took them? Should he steal a car? Or maybe he should just commit suicide? After some human contact, his confidence goes up and a sense of self preservation kicks in, and he goes to the airport. If he hasn't been caught yet maybe he could still get away with it-- and if he took the cheques or bank cards, he'll be able to use them somewhere that the real owner is not known.
Click to expand...

There was no report that he stole or used the M.N.'s bank card or ever tried to use it. I don't see any reason to think he would have known the PIN either. However he probably could have used it to change his ticket online without an issue or Dr. Kelly's cards as well. If he was really trying to escape, he ****ed up there.
 
ziggy said:
Or... because when the law came knocking on the door previously to find out about the girls, it was a lone policeman and rumored to be on the skinny side, and some believe Sam wanted to kill a cop. Hence, he called expecting the lone skinny cop to show up to lure him to the basement and then kill him. Just another theory mind you.

Also, didn't Mel's mom finally get in touch with Shirm (Sick) too? The person who knew Sam had killed told LiZ, who told ShiRm who called... I think.

It is late and the Tylenol PM is kicking in ... night!
Click to expand...

My problem with the "lone skinny cop murder" theory is that the lone skinny cop would still be armed, still be trained in self defense and weapons combat, and would be aware and on guard that he was entering a potentially hostile situation to the point where an amateur like SM, even if he attempted to ambush him, would be significantly less likely to succeed than with the unsuspecting, untrained civilians.
 
AndresEscobar said:
My problem with the "lone skinny cop murder" theory is that the lone skinny cop would still be armed, still be trained in self defense and weapons combat, and would be aware and on guard that he was entering a potentially hostile situation to the point where an amateur like SM, even if he attempted to ambush him, would be significantly less likely to succeed than with the unsuspecting, untrained civilians.
Click to expand...

LOL good point as always.
 
I'd like to point out that we know that Sam did not take any credit cards or checks, as everything on Sam's person at the time of arrest is on the search warrants. Also, Sam would have been charged with their theft if there was any reasonable belief he had.
 
AndresEscobar said:
My problem with the "lone skinny cop murder" theory is that the lone skinny cop would still be armed, still be trained in self defense and weapons combat, and would be aware and on guard that he was entering a potentially hostile situation to the point where an amateur like SM, even if he attempted to ambush him, would be significantly less likely to succeed than with the unsuspecting, untrained civilians.
Click to expand...

But would this occur to him?

As it is he's already called the police to the scene of his crime perhaps in some strange attempt to construct an alibi. But if so, his alibi isn't very good since it places him at the scene of the crime right around the time of the murders. Woops.

Similarly, he could have easily used the pastor's or Dr. Kelly's credit cards to change his ticket online and leave town, but he doesn't think of this and instead ends up hanging around town, running out of money, and finally getting arrested in the airport. Woops again.

And apparently he's a fan of horror and murder, reads the Dexter series, etc. but he knows nothing about forensics and makes no attempt to clean the "dead ****" off of himself. I agree with Pax about DNA evidence etc.;McCroskey is very likely going to get the death penalty because of this mistake right here. He's even possibly wearing the same clothes he wore during the murder. Gross and woops^3

Let's face it, he's not the smartest criminal ever to walk the earth.
 
AndresEscobar said:
My problem with the "lone skinny cop murder" theory is that the lone skinny cop would still be armed, still be trained in self defense and weapons combat, and would be aware and on guard that he was entering a potentially hostile situation to the point where an amateur like SM, even if he attempted to ambush him, would be significantly less likely to succeed than with the unsuspecting, untrained civilians.
Click to expand...

And you say you watch horror films??? I don't and even I can get this scenario..."hey, I heard noises in the basement"; "don't worry son, I'll go check it out"...halfway down the stairs BAM in the head from behind..or ar least that is enough of a fantasy for Sam's brain. I'm not saying it's a great plan, but neither was smashing them with a wood maul and ball peen hammer and leaving evidence all over the place and living with dead bodies and...on and on. Sam was not an organized killer. See?
 
Try this on:

I was thinking that maybe the whole time Sam was in the house, he was "living the dream." After all the horrorcore, there he was, so he did exactly what he'd been inviting into his brain for the last few years. He posed with the bodies, and took photos and video. He did things with the bodies he had seen in cover art, and on the gang's myspaces. He may have called the police as just more hijinx. When Mark came, Sam was continuing the game. Then he ran off to the airport and was brazenly okay with himself and all of it, both on the way and there. And when they took him in, he smirked and said, "Jesus made me do it."

Pure socio. Just a younger, less polished one than we usually capture.
 
tapu said:
Try this on:

I was thinking that maybe the whole time Sam was in the house, he was "living the dream." After all the horrorcore, there he was, so he did exactly what he'd been inviting into his brain for the last few years. He posed with the bodies, and took photos and video. He did things with the bodies he had seen in cover art, and on the gang's myspaces. He may have called the police as just more hijinx. When Mark came, Sam was continuing the game. Then he ran off to the airport and was brazenly okay with himself and all of it, both on the way and there. And when they took him in, he smirked and said, "Jesus made me do it."

Pure socio. Just a younger, less polished one than we usually capture.
Click to expand...

Don't forget that he's also talking and interacting with people while smelling like death and no one says anything. The cab driver described their conversation as "interesting" in addition to mentioning the odor. If I follow your reasoning here, he'd be laughing about that at the time I imagine. I think this theory actually explains many of the confusing events in the story.

Supporting evidence:
eating at the Huddle House before leaving town
he smiles when he is being led into the jail in handcuffs
"Jesus told me to do it."
reading Dexter books in jail?

I am sure we can add some others to this list.
 
Indeed I would tend to agree with the tapu - pure sociopath.

Now mind you, sociopaths don't always murder or commit crimes and they do not have any markings that alert us to their nature. It is not until you have dealt with one on a personal level, and sometimes for even extended periods, that you come to recognize them for who they are.

I am guessing Sam spent a lot of time relating to people online rather than face to face. It would be easy to hide your sociopathic nature.

I know a few sociopaths and one of them is the most charming, likeable, attractive person that can instantly morph into whatever person she needs to be in order to rapport people. It is why she is known in our circles as the shape shifter. It would take someone a very long time to figure her out, so I can imagine Sam being able to be the likeable mild mannered kid with a dark side that was not revealed until he was "livin' the dream." (Chaz from Wedding Crashers anyone?)
 
Hey, LaWanda's here! She just dimmed her lights and is riding dirty.


Hi, LaWanda!
 
I feel for the loved ones having to wait until Fall for any wheels of justice. Tho I understand the continuity and care of evidence priority.
http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=11846856
I wish LE had More investigators, labs, web sleuthers, technicians, and searchers; and less armored vehicles, federal training centers, tasers, skateboard cams, and fancy uniforms, All MOO.
 
Sally Trueheart said:
I wonder... was the motivation keeping on staying at the professor's house?

After the conversation with his dad that if he went to VA he needent come back, Sam would have perhaps approached SKR and others at the SFTW concert with needing a job and or a place to live and was rejected. Maybe he expected to live at "the grotto". Maybe he tried to chat up the girl he was seen with at the concert as another option of a place to live, with her, but was also rejected. Another option may have been staying on longer in Farmville, maybe discussed with Emma, but rejected by Emma's mom, who was in therapy with the girl and probably wouldn't have allowed this strange boy to stay indefinitely distracting her daughter from getting healthy.

He then may have felt attacking hem his only option, perhaps planning on sparing Mel until it was clear that she was not going to protect his secret.

This might explain why he stayed at the house after the killings, for as long as he was undetected, he had a place to live. When he killed the pastor, it might have been less about trying to do a ritual killing of a religous person and more about trying to stay in the house without being disturbed.

Why invite the cop back? Maybe he had cleaned up the crime scene enough since the first welfare check (shoving dress under the living room chair), and wanted to let the cops into the house thinking that Mel's mom would be satisfied and look elsewhere for her, at least for a while. I don't think he wanted to attack the cop because that would have led to more cops coming and him losing the safety of the house when the policeman didn't check in at the end of his shift, if not sooner. He may have asked for the same one to return not because he seemed weak, but because he felt safe with him, after all, he hadn't insisted on coming inside and had apparently bought Sam's lie about the women being at the movies.

Re leaving the pastor's car in a ditch: maybe he was concocting a story in which the girls had run away together, or been kidnapped from the father's car. Maybe the multiple bottles of spilled pills in his car and the car being in a ditch was some sort of staging. I find it interesting that in what is supposedly a friendly town, the neighbor who spotted Sam stuck in a ditch apparently contacted the police instead of pulling him out. Perhaps just the choice of that particular person, or perhaps Sam was doing something weird that gave the person pause-- marking up the car or throwing stuff around inside to stage a kidnapping scene? When the police surprised him by discovering him and the car together, he had to change that plan to taking the airplane back to CA.

The only hole in my theory I can see is why didn't he take the minivan in the driveway, but some have said that the keys to it may have been hidden by the professor so that her daughter would have to get permission to use it. Another possibility is that he disabled it prior to the killings and was unable to restore it to working order after the killings.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

I'm a newbie to this case and want to comment that, I wondered why a guy like Sam, a proclaimed follower of satan (right?), would be afraid of basement noises. My thoughts were "so the satanists a wimp - strange". You addressed that and it makes sense.

The factor that Sam's dad told him not to come back if he went to VA (I hadn't read that) probably plays an important role in this nightmare. It reminds me of Casey A's 'maybe I'm a spiteful *****' comment to her brother when he was trying to find out where Caylee was. If Sam knew his dad meant business, things had not worked out for him with Emma and he now had nowhere to go - did these combined circumstances cause him to snap?

Has it been explored if Sam's father had any foreknowledge of a plan Sam had to do harm? That he knew his son was up to no good on his way out to VA? Sam is twenty years old so what's with the father placing those restrictions on him? Could Sam be a spiteful ______? He found himself a home in the Big House.
 
I dunno how significant his dad's warning was because his mom and dad were separated so couldn't he just come home and live with mom?

I lean towards Sam just not thinking clearly and trying to develop an intruder theory in his chaotic rampage. Of course that makes no sense to me, but then again I can sit here and think about it without the mind melt of just having killed people. I really don't think this was planned or her would have done a better job. The whole thing was just messy and perhaps he decided he would try to confuse the issue of him being the perp by creating the intruder. I don't know and I want some news!
 
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