WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[georger]

what are the odds of the same font being used in other mags from that period?

I would have no idea. Its not just font but colored print style in the case of the Oregonian letterand presumably nobody but the Oregonian and FBI have ever seen that letter, so whoever Al Di is, he must be looking down from heaven ?

 

[georger]

here is my map showing where I am at around 7:40:37 following V23

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=14MILES.jpg

here are some map plates in consecutive order if they post

 

[scandi]

hope you guys don't mind that I started another thread on this, as the old one had 700 plus posts, and veeerrrryyyy sllooooooowwwww in opening it up!

If you all (Sluggo!) want to post some of the links you had on the last thread - please do!!

and Sluggo - LOVE the timeline that you did!! :clap: excellent!!

and on that obit of William "Wolfgang" Gossett - do me at least - he doesn't 'seem' or sound like a hi-jacker... just my opinion!! Still believe LeftCoast's analysis - Ted Mayfield IS D.B. Cooper!!

Blessed be, it is great to see you Niner! And thanks for Mayfield's name as I had forgotten it.

Do you remember our poster here who knows a lot about flying and posted about that concrete circle where there was a beacon of some sort to let planes know exactly where they were? I'm just wondering if that is the spot where the FBI think he jumped?

 

[Niner]

Originally Posted by Niner
hope you guys don't mind that I started another thread on this, as the old one had 700 plus posts, and veeerrrryyyy sllooooooowwwww in opening it up!

If you all (Sluggo!) want to post some of the links you had on the last thread - please do!!

and Sluggo - LOVE the timeline that you did!! excellent!!

and on that obit of William "Wolfgang" Gossett - do me at least - he doesn't 'seem' or sound like a hi-jacker... just my opinion!! Still believe LeftCoast's analysis - Ted Mayfield IS D.B. Cooper!!

Blessed be, it is great to see you Niner! And thanks for Mayfield's name as I had forgotten it.

Do you remember our poster here who knows a lot about flying and posted about that concrete circle where there was a beacon of some sort to let planes know exactly where they were? I'm just wondering if that is the spot where the FBI think he jumped?

Hey Scandi! :seeya:

I do recall talk about the concrete circle! But don't recall 'who' that was!?! LOL! I'd have to go back to the beginning of these threads - but too busy now!

I had to re-quote myself, as I was just reading the link that georger posted above! I just noticed in myself quote that the name Gossett had been mentioned before - and now that I looked at his picture and the sketch - boy - he sure looks like the sketch!!

 

[scandi]

Was it me?

D.B Cooper still Alive? - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes , t'was you. lol

Going back into that link above puts one right in the middle of that conversation you had with leftcoast. It is in my mind a must read {or a re-read} for anyone studying the case. The posters in this case are now and have always been amazing IMO.

So tonight I'm going for the re-read ;} In the maps just posted of the line of V-23 I see where it goes over a circle north of Battleground - or was it a bit east of Woodland? Whoops, I just looked and it was not too far north of Orchards. I don't think it is the right spot.

Remember there was a little shack there for instruments with an access road to the circle which we thought was for whoever checked the instruments. It was so perfect for him to get out of there quick-like IMO.

It is so sad leftcoast died. He certainly left his mark on the world with his study of DB's case. I remember watching him and his cohort/friend on the KOIN special about the case. I believe his friend is also a member here ;}

 

[scandi]

I tried to get on V-23 but the angle is off a little, I placed the plane a couple miles back in order to get that view shot and couldn't get onto V-23 correctly in time.

I am learning a lot about the plane as well as the flight path, very educational!

Thanks for the confidence boost from you and Hominid, just hope we can possibly find some answers here as to where the jump zone actual might be :waitasec:

Thanks MrShutter and also Hominid for your info on the VORTAC , W56, that is 4 miles north of Vancouver. Maybe it is that little circle I see on the map.

 

[scandi]

Hey Scandi! :seeya:

I do recall talk about the concrete circle! But don't recall 'who' that was!?! LOL! I'd have to go back to the beginning of these threads - but too busy now!

I had to re-quote myself, as I was just reading the link that georger posted above! I just noticed in myself quote that the name Gossett had been mentioned before - and now that I looked at his picture and the sketch - boy - he sure looks like the sketch!!

WOW, I just read the link from Georger about Gossett. I hadn't remembered the name. It certainly makes a good case Gossett could be DB, eh? He does look like the sketch, I'll agree.

 

[georger]

Hey Scandi! :seeya:

I do recall talk about the concrete circle! But don't recall 'who' that was!?! LOL! I'd have to go back to the beginning of these threads - but too busy now!

I had to re-quote myself, as I was just reading the link that georger posted above! I just noticed in myself quote that the name Gossett had been mentioned before - and now that I looked at his picture and the sketch - boy - he sure looks like the sketch!!

But the date of that photo? Some have said Photos around 1971 dont look like the sketch... ?

 

[georger]

I tried to get on V-23 but the angle is off a
I am learning a lot about the plane as well as the flight path, very educational!

Im going to post off this - your photo attache really intrgues me. If Merwin Dam is off to the left as per your label then the plane at this position is how many minutes away from PDX? The view is very long and flat! It seems to me any light visible at all around VCR-PDX, would have been seen from a very long way out, if this photo is accurate? That would have given Cooper plenty of time to get read and adjust prior to drop ... making the ten minute period from last contact, Rat reported, just about right? Give me your thoughts on this... its very flat open terrain.

 

[MrShutter45]

Im going to post off this - your photo attache really intrgues me. If Merwin Dam is off to the left as per your label then the plane at this position is how many minutes away from PDX? The view is very long and flat! It seems to me any light visible at all around VCR-PDX, would have been seen from a very long way out, if this photo is accurate? That would have given Cooper plenty of time to get read and adjust prior to drop ... making the ten minute period from last contact, Rat reported, just about right? Give me your thoughts on this... its very flat open terrain.

the distance between Merwin Dam and PDX is 25.898 miles or 22.505 NM, I am using the GPS on the plane, this is supposed to be very accurate, I got these locations from google map calculator which gives straight line calculations.

A lot of this area seems to be flat terrain but I do not know enough about the area to be certain that it's all flat terrain, I will check into it more after I get home from work.

I will also post a nite pic from 10,000 on V23.

 

[georger]

the distance between Merwin Dam and PDX is 25.898 miles or 22.505 NM, I am using the GPS on the plane, this is supposed to be very accurate, I got these locations from google map calculator which gives straight line calculations.

A lot of this area seems to be flat terrain but I do not know enough about the area to be certain that it's all flat terrain, I will check into it more after I get home from work.

I will also post a nite pic from 10,000 on V23.

sorry I failed to post the pic after allof my palavar! :maddening:
Will now. It was flat enough, obviously from the pic, as seen from 10k feet, that anyone
looking ahead would have seen skyglow if it was there in any form to see. Given the fact
Cooper had just about every aspect of his 'plan' scoped out, to some level of sophistication,
its at least a 50-50 chance he was using some metric to try and decide on a place to jump.
Thats an assumption only Cooper could answer. If he had a sense of time and knew the
general features of Washington (from the air) btwn SEA and places south to the Columbia (everyone knew where the Columbia was!), then there's a chance he tried to bail near PDX-VCR (those cities being landmarks), if he saw their light because: (a) they are the first largest landmarks south from SEA before you cross the Columbia, (b) they signal civilisation vs wilderness, and (c) and they are far enough away from SEA that they offer a chance of freedom enough to escape, vs. anything near Seattle.

One clue could be the amount of time he spent at the window(s) while Tina was there. Much has been made of him not knowing the route being taken and Rataczak wanted to take out along the coast, and drop him in the ocean; "it was warfare!", says Rataczak.

Your photo shows it would have been easy to spot Portland-Vancouver lights, with any
skyglow seeable from the back of the plane ... your photo proves that! It is assumed he was
always at the rear of the plane, only? Stupid me, until this photo I had never seen this so
clearly. Flat terrain ahead in this corridor, going south from Toledo and especially from
Woodland-Merwin south to PDX, was a FACT, as your photo shows. It only depends on
Cooper knowing this opportunity ... and he mentioned where Tacoma was from the air due to
its lights. So he cited one location by use of ground features seen from the plane. My
relatives at Tacoma were looking for him there! (fact). And there has to be some ordinary
relationship between the money at Tina Bar and proximity of the FP over this general area.

Note from the map attached where Cooper is from 20:05 and then 20:10 on south, the vista ahead, wide flat area, and the time slot the crew gives for Cooper being on the stairs maybe bailing based on oscillations and bump etc.

Even H and his helo pilot flew up to the 20:10 mark (Woodland area) to search, based on
the intelligence relayed to them by radio from R2 ATC and *advertiser censored* McChord. I know that for a
fact because Ive interviewed these people. R2 says H and his pilot were communicating on
their military channel linked to McChord. And recounting this in 1976 H said clerarly: "Cooper
bailed, we now think, somewhere 12 miles north of Portland". Himms did not specifiy an east-
west line. But the money find at Tina Bar supplies that basic link.

Your photo adds great meaning (for me) to the 20:10 and 20:05 locations visi-a-vis PDX,
VCR, and the Columbia. It doesnt prove he bailed in this area but it sure provides the
opportunity. When you add the rest of the factual evidence it almost secures this area
as the zone of Cooper's departure, to me.

We need more simulations involving slightly different flight parameters, on this same
general flight path. ! Whether Cooper knew the route they were going to take or not no
longer matters! What is required - BY THE FACTS OF THE CASE - is that they were on this
general path, Copper knows the primary geographical indicators in this aea, just as he
demonstrated geographical knowledge and knew Tacoma from the air circling over
SEA, and he acts accordingly, a significant distance away from SEA-Tacoma which is what
he wanted to perfect an escape, and just like the placard it is close to evidence found on
the ground in the PDX-VCR area. What more do you need? The logical connections are here
in this set of basic facts.

 

[MrShutter45]

sorry I failed to post the pic after allof my palavar! :maddening:
Will now. It was flat enough, obviously from the pic, as seen from 10k feet, that anyone
looking ahead would have seen skyglow if it was there in any form to see. Given the fact
Cooper had just about every aspect of his 'plan' scoped out, to some level of sophistication,
its at least a 50-50 chance he was using some metric to try and decide on a place to jump.
Thats an assumption only Cooper could answer. If he had a sense of time and knew the
general features of Washington (from the air) btwn SEA and places south to the Columbia (everyone knew where the Columbia was!), then there's a chance he tried to bail near PDX-VCR (those cities being landmarks), if he saw their light because: (a) they are the first largest landmarks south from SEA before you cross the Columbia, (b) they signal civilisation vs wilderness, and (c) and they are far enough away from SEA that they offer a chance of freedom enough to escape, vs. anything near Seattle.

One clue could be the amount of time he spent at the window(s) while Tina was there. Much has been made of him not knowing the route being taken and Rataczak wanted to take out along the coast, and drop him in the ocean; "it was warfare!", says Rataczak.

Your photo shows it would have been easy to spot Portland-Vancouver lights, with any
skyglow seeable from the back of the plane ... your photo proves that! It is assumed he was
always at the rear of the plane, only? Stupid me, until this photo I had never seen this so
clearly. Flat terrain ahead in this corridor, going south from Toledo and especially from
Woodland-Merwin south to PDX, was a FACT, as your photo shows. It only depends on
Cooper knowing this opportunity ... and he mentioned where Tacoma was from the air due to
its lights. So he cited one location by use of ground features seen from the plane. My
relatives at Tacoma were looking for him there! (fact). And there has to be some ordinary
relationship between the money at Tina Bar and proximity of the FP over this general area.

Note from the map attached where Cooper is from 20:05 and then 20:10 on south, the vista ahead, wide flat area, and the time slot the crew gives for Cooper being on the stairs maybe bailing based on oscillations and bump etc.

Even H and his helo pilot flew up to the 20:10 mark (Woodland area) to search, based on
the intelligence relayed to them by radio from R2 ATC and *advertiser censored* McChord. I know that for a
fact because Ive interviewed these people. R2 says H and his pilot were communicating on
their military channel linked to McChord. And recounting this in 1976 H said clerarly: "Cooper
bailed, we now think, somewhere 12 miles north of Portland". Himms did not specifiy an east-
west line. But the money find at Tina Bar supplies that basic link.

Your photo adds great meaning (for me) to the 20:10 and 20:05 locations visi-a-vis PDX,
VCR, and the Columbia. It doesnt prove he bailed in this area but it sure provides the
opportunity. When you add the rest of the factual evidence it almost secures this area
as the zone of Cooper's departure, to me.

We need more simulations involving slightly different flight parameters, on this same
general flight path. ! Whether Cooper knew the route they were going to take or not no
longer matters! What is required - BY THE FACTS OF THE CASE - is that they were on this
general path, Copper knows the primary geographical indicators in this aea, just as he
demonstrated geographical knowledge and knew Tacoma from the air circling over
SEA, and he acts accordingly, a significant distance away from SEA-Tacoma which is what
he wanted to perfect an escape, and just like the placard it is close to evidence found on
the ground in the PDX-VCR area. What more do you need? The logical connections are here
in this set of basic facts.

I agree on the simulation part as well, I want to learn this path and then start taking other ways around past Merwin Dam, I just got home after a 13 hour work day!!!!!! but will have the nite shots in a little while :rocker:

 

[Niner]

But the date of that photo? Some have said Photos around 1971 dont look like the sketch... ?

Yes it does! :snooty:



eace:

 

[MrShutter45]

I set the simulator to November 24 1971, these pics are from 10,000 right on V23.

the first pic is from behind the plane and slightly above.

http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=V23highangle.jpg#!oZZ3QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1224.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee380%2Fdave767%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DV23.jpg

The second pic is from a much higher angle, but same altitude
http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=V23highangle.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1224.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee380%2Fdave767%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DV23highangle.jpg

The final pic is my view zoomed into the windshield.
http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/dave767/?action=view&current=V23highangle.jpg#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1224.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee380%2Fdave767%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DCOCKPITVIEW.jpg

you can click and enlarge the photo's by the way

 

[MrShutter45]

I didn't set the weather on the sim, I have noticed it only sets weather conditions in small area's or I'm not doing it right (learning curve)

the nite flights are interesting, you really can't see PDX until you are around Battleground, you can see it slightly in my cockpit photo, but 2 or 3 minutes past the dam you can see it.

I have been plotting area's with my gps amd maps I have on board and taking this information to Google maps and they are lining up, so I think we have a good shot of getting something out of this, just as Georger has found! :rocker:

 

[georger]

I didn't set the weather on the sim, I have noticed it only sets weather conditions in small area's or I'm not doing it right (learning curve)

the nite flights are interesting, you really can't see PDX until you are around Battleground, you can see it slightly in my cockpit photo, but 2 or 3 minutes past the dam you can see it.

I have been plotting area's with my gps amd maps I have on board and taking this information to Google maps and they are lining up, so I think we have a good shot of getting something out of this, just as Georger has found! :rocker:

Ok, if you can, swing around and grab a view facing northern horizon, true
north toward Polaris; elevation whatever it takes to have Polaris in the
field of view. I have an experiment to try.

Now: we have no idea how accurate (realistic) the luminosity level is in
this software, for example the cabin view. Since the software is not fully
adjustable for weather, then luminosity renders are probably not
accurate, but by what scale accurate or not accurate - we may never
know unless the software give details on this parameter?

So, Ive taken the luminosity level in your photos and increased it 1x and
then 5x to show the range. I will post the 1x L1 serie here and the L5
serie in the next post. Notice the difference. I have no idea which version
would be correct, but if Rat saw the photos he might be able to make a
judgment? The changes in luminosity levels speaks for themselves -

BTW, the stars depicted in your software dont appear to be a true representation of the
astronomical sky at the actual year, date, and time . That is why I would like to see a north view..... and where is the Moon? Is it even depicted is this software?

 

[georger]

I didn't set the weather on the sim, I have noticed it only sets weather conditions in small area's or I'm not doing it right (learning curve)

the nite flights are interesting, you really can't see PDX until you are around Battleground, you can see it slightly in my cockpit photo, but 2 or 3 minutes past the dam you can see it.

I have been plotting area's with my gps amd maps I have on board and taking this information to Google maps and they are lining up, so I think we have a good shot of getting something out of this, just as Georger has found! :rocker:

Here are the L5 luminosity versions. L5 is probably not an accurate representation. But L1...
?

 

[MrShutter45]

I was thinking the same about the stars's, I doubt that got that detailed, but I will reverse and head North.

as for the moon, I have seen it, but not lately. I will have to look at the settings and see if I did something. they even have a setting for the reflection you see on the windshield! (forgot to take it off) :blushing:

I have so much to learn about this software, the first part of the flight is pretty easy following V23, I end up around Toledo or Maylay intersection at 24 minutes into the flight. then take a turn, but I stop there on most flights until I get it as good as it can get, I have flown about 30 times to the first leg.

it's been a long day, I will post the due North pic tomorrow, pretty wore out from a long run today.

 

[georger]

I was thinking the same about the stars's, I doubt that got that detailed, but I will reverse and head North.

as for the moon, I have seen it, but not lately. I will have to look at the settings and see if I did something. they even have a setting for the reflection you see on the windshield! (forgot to take it off) :blushing:

I have so much to learn about this software, the first part of the flight is pretty easy following V23, I end up around Toledo or Maylay intersection at 24 minutes into the flight. then take a turn, but I stop there on most flights until I get it as good as it can get, I have flown about 30 times to the first leg.

it's been a long day, I will post the due North pic tomorrow, pretty wore out from a long run today.

no rush, whenever convenient, its been terribly hot here - everyone is worn out. Here's a
true chart of the sky looking south over Portland at the 20:00 hours on Nov 24 '71.
So your photos may not show enough elevation to show the Moon that evening at that
time?

 

[georger]

Yes it does! :snooty:



eace:

Jo Weber and Robert Blevins have stated that Cook stacked the deck with
his Gosset photos - that the Gosset photos he uses are from a much
younger date than 1971 and by the time 71 rolled around Gosset looked
nothing like the FBI sketches, looked much older, as evidenced by
retirement photos of Gosset shot arund 1971. Who knows. I dont.