WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #5

[SMK]

I didn't want to make you wait

Here is my original post and the link:

A friend she grew up with just wrote this about her on the news page:

(I didn't hear about the emergency lights...)

"I believe that she was drinking. It clearly shows in her actions and reactions on that night. Why did she put the emergency blinkers on in the parking lot of the conveience store she was at when she bought the wine. I think she was drinking all day. Mabey dealing with reconciling with her step-father and the bad news of possible cancer of her fience proved to be a little to much to take for a recovering alcholic. I know because I too have delt with some of the same issues in my past. you drink to deal and not feel. I have known Shantina since grade school and for a long time was very close to her almost like sisters. I know she had her demons but I do believe in change and her desire to break free from all the chains holding her down. I think she was happy. I think that could have scared her, being so happy, her relationship with her fience and finally finding peace in her chaotic world."

http://www.komonews.com/news/88274362.html

Thanks!!!:idea: It clarifies somewhat, and her friend sounds both knowing and compassionate. Thanks very much for this.

 

[nnglas]

Yes, I agree: She was an alcoholic, and was irresponsible at some times in very bad ways. The CPS reports are troubling. But there was good to her as well. The idea of foul play does not discount the other, or make her an angel. But being an alcoholic is supposedly a physiological disease, and not simply a moral failing. Yes, we may be grasping at straws. Maybe it is because she was so pretty, and seemed to have tried so hard to get back on track with college and honors and work, and scouts for her boy. She does not fit the profile of a seedy derelict, just a troubled person (I give her credit for surviving her mother's suicide). Yes, I guess there is some desire to grasp at straws. But there is a possibility, however remote, that she fell victim to someone.

I understand totally what you are saying. Kind of. I just don't see foul play. Don't get me wrong, I do not think that she is a bad person at all. Seems she must have been on the wagon for some time. My point is she relapsed. She bought wine, she parked on a lake with her child in the car. It just seems like the obvious conclusion here. Sorry, I just don't see all these other scenarios. It's not that I have a HUGE problem with the foul play theory, it is more the medical theories that really bother me. I even read someone saying, "How do we know she even drank the half bottle of wine." I mean really? What did she do, buy the wine, open it, pour out some for her "homies" and then put the top back on? Just seems silly to me.

I think this was a horrible accident. I do not think she meant for this to happen. I just wish that if it was the stress from the meeting with family members, she would have just cancelled and stayed home.

 

[SMK]

I understand totally what you are saying. Kind of. I just don't see foul play. Don't get me wrong, I do not think that she is a bad person at all. Seems she must have been on the wagon for some time. My point is she relapsed. She bought wine, she parked on a lake with her child in the car. It just seems like the obvious conclusion here. Sorry, I just don't see all these other scenarios. It's not that I have a HUGE problem with the foul play theory, it is more the medical theories that really bother me. I even read someone saying, "How do we know she even drank the half bottle of wine." I mean really? What did she do, buy the wine, open it, pour out some for her "homies" and then put the top back on? Just seems silly to me.

I think this was a horrible accident. I do not think she meant for this to happen. I just wish that if it was the stress from the meeting with family members, she would have just cancelled and stayed home.

Yes, I would agree, the stress being so much, she should have cancelled. And I do agree that it is far more likely that it was a tragic accident, a case of their sleeping in the van, and being swept away by high tide currents. But there is a small, small chance of there being a third party, who entered in at the eleventh hour, and took advantage. I agree, she most likely drank all the wine, but it might have been shared with someone. I would say that there is a 95% probability of it being just her and her son. But there is maybe a 5% chance , a little margin, that something else came in. Just a gut intuition, but could be way, way off base, I will admit. :crazy:Thanks for your fine feedback.

 

[jessigirl]

Another possibility: We do not know what happened between Shantina's stop at the William's home and her van being found the next morning. She very well could have stopped at another private location to seek further directions and/or help from an unsavory person. This person took the opportunity to commit an assault, drive to the beach and dispose of SS & AC as to leave no witnesses.

OMG! Just catching up from posts since last night when I read the above post. This practically jumped off the screen at me and literally I got the hairs raising on the back of my neck feeling. I know this is ONLY a what if? but in MOO I feel that it fits this puzzle perfectly and is a very large piece of the puzzle. (Literally as I am typing my entire body has goose bumps that won't stop) I several threads back threw out a scenario that had from day one been in the back of my head, That AZ and SS never left the Williams residence. Tho, by watching the interviews over and over I just got nothing but a feeling of innocence and generosity from this family. But I can't tell you how this "scenario" has consumed my mind, but I knew whole heartedly and also logically that this just wasnt the correct scenario, atleast not the scenario with the Williams as the perpatrators of any kind. All that said, the above post now makes me believe my scenario may indeed have been spot on, just not with the Williams. But the chances are so very great that SS would and did decide to stop at another local residence(especially since the stop at the William's had fared so very well). All I know is that this entire story has given me so much,but at the same time so very little to go on and I've felt at a complete dead end for a very long time until Jani just opened my eyes to what I believe could be MORE THAN A POSSIBILITY and also a definite direction to lead us to the truth of what occurred that night and WHO could be also responsible for AZ death. Of course this is MOO but is there anyone else that is getting such feelings about this very real possibility?

 

[eyes4crime]

I would be thrilled if Shantina is found alive - that, by far, is the best scenario, it would mean one less senseless death in this senseless case and would give her another chance at living life with sobriety and meaning. Unfortunately, for me, I feel she is no longer alive. mho

 

[Kimster]

I would just HATE it if a perpetrator got away with causing their deaths simply because she was an alcoholic and had CPS reports, and everyone's mindset is "she did it". EVERY avenue should be explored. imo

ITA. The great detectives are the ones who keep all the doors open even though they have their eye on just one.

 

[jessigirl]

ITA. The great detectives are the ones who keep all the doors open even though they have their eye on just one.

I COULD NOT agree with you more! This is my feeling 150%! And not only is it just the way I feel, I think many many past cases that are even right here on WS have proven to be solved by being diligent in sleuthing EVERY possible direction(of course that goes w/out saying NOT the obvious innocent) and that includes the sleuthers:detective: that are willing to think outside the box. We'd get nowhere if we all felt the same or were easily swayed to what sometimes seems the easiest explanation(which some find a comfort or sense of closure if they can just be convinced of such)... ALL THAT SAID. I'M WITH YA 150% ON THIS STATEMENT, KIMSTER!:woohoo:

 

[90Nine]

I didn't want to make you wait

Here is my original post and the link:

A friend she grew up with just wrote this about her on the news page:

(I didn't hear about the emergency lights...)

"I believe that she was drinking. It clearly shows in her actions and reactions on that night. Why did she put the emergency blinkers on in the parking lot of the conveience store she was at when she bought the wine. I think she was drinking all day. Mabey dealing with reconciling with her step-father and the bad news of possible cancer of her fience proved to be a little to much to take for a recovering alcholic. I know because I too have delt with some of the same issues in my past. you drink to deal and not feel. I have known Shantina since grade school and for a long time was very close to her almost like sisters. I know she had her demons but I do believe in change and her desire to break free from all the chains holding her down. I think she was happy. I think that could have scared her, being so happy, her relationship with her fience and finally finding peace in her chaotic world."

http://www.komonews.com/news/88274362.html

I was thinking more about this and this may not only be the statement from a very good friend, but also may have been based upon her talking with mutual friends they share. Which we've not seen any interview from...which is weird too.

 

[SMK]

OMG! Just catching up from posts since last night when I read the above post. This practically jumped off the screen at me and literally I got the hairs raising on the back of my neck feeling. I know this is ONLY a what if? but in MOO I feel that it fits this puzzle perfectly and is a very large piece of the puzzle. (Literally as I am typing my entire body has goose bumps that won't stop) I several threads back threw out a scenario that had from day one been in the back of my head, That AZ and SS never left the Williams residence. Tho, by watching the interviews over and over I just got nothing but a feeling of innocence and generosity from this family. But I can't tell you how this "scenario" has consumed my mind, but I knew whole heartedly and also logically that this just wasnt the correct scenario, atleast not the scenario with the Williams as the perpatrators of any kind. All that said, the above post now makes me believe my scenario may indeed have been spot on, just not with the Williams. But the chances are so very great that SS would and did decide to stop at another local residence(especially since the stop at the William's had fared so very well). All I know is that this entire story has given me so much,but at the same time so very little to go on and I've felt at a complete dead end for a very long time until Jani just opened my eyes to what I believe could be MORE THAN A POSSIBILITY and also a definite direction to lead us to the truth of what occurred that night and WHO could be also responsible for AZ death. Of course this is MOO but is there anyone else that is getting such feelings about this very real possibility?

I can honestly say, that although it does not seem very likely, I have had a strong intuition, a gut hunch, that some third party entered into the scenario. And I cannot seem to shake the feeling.

 

[bobcat]

To me it's far more likely that someone else was involved in this. I don't think Shantina was capable of finding that little road down to the beach in the dark, even if totally sober. I think somebody else drove the van down there. Whether it was someone Shantina knew or not, I don't know. But I don't think it is just a matter of she was drinking and drove down to the beach where she and her son both drowned when the tide came in. There's got to be more to it than that. And what about the knock on that house at 1 a.m.? Who did that, and why?

 

[90Nine]

How does this explain the police finding no evidence of anyone else being in the car?

Unless it was premeditated and someone knew what they were doing - but that seems pretty far fetched.

 

[90Nine]

I can honestly say, that although it does not seem very likely, I have had a strong intuition, a gut hunch, that some third party entered into the scenario. And I cannot seem to shake the feeling.

I agree 100%. But I think it is someone she knew.

 

[jessigirl]

I can honestly say, that although it does not seem very likely, I have had a strong intuition, a gut hunch, that some third party entered into the scenario. And I cannot seem to shake the feeling.

I know about the "can't shake that feeling". I'm no clairvoyant, psychic, or anything nearly related to these. But what I am is a woman that is a mother. And those two things combined give us such "gut" instincts that are there NOT to be ignored or put aside. There have been many times that such instincts are dead on that I begin to wonder if its some sort of sixth sense(not as in I have the gift of knowing happenings or predicting future outcomes) but more like a God given tool to be used. And I know its a mucher greater percentage of being ,if not dead on, atleast being on the right track. Much greater than the times when my instincts have been dead wrong. I really feel as though there is a very great possibility of there being atleast a third player in this case(known to SS or complete stranger remains in question.) So, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed:crossfingers:that in the coming days that hopefully something will occur or come out that will better shed light on this case(in one way or another) Until then I'm constantly thinking and playing out scenarios through my mind:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

I know about the "can't shake that feeling". I'm no clairvoyant, psychic, or anything nearly related to these. But what I am is a woman that is a mother. And those two things combined give us such "gut" instincts that are there NOT to be ignored or put aside. There have been many times that such instincts are dead on that I begin to wonder if its some sort of sixth sense(not as in I have the gift of knowing happenings or predicting future outcomes) but more like a God given tool to be used. And I know its a mucher greater percentage of being ,if not dead on, atleast being on the right track. Much greater than the times when my instincts have been dead wrong. I really feel as though there is a very great possibility of there being atleast a third player in this case(known to SS or complete stranger remains in question.) So, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed:crossfingers:that in the coming days that hopefully something will occur or come out that will better shed light on this case(in one way or another) Until then I'm constantly thinking and playing out scenarios through my mind:waitasec:

Yes, I know that feeling.... I am with you there....Who is to say, that in the darkness, someone walking the shore did not see a young, confused, female form on the beach, alone, perhaps with a child sleeping in the back seat? It haunts me....:waitasec:

 

[Lipin One]

I love websleuths, and everybody on it. However, I really don't understand why we are looking for excuses for this woman.

No excuses.

Just some "inquisitive" minds want to know the exact circumstances that led to the events on that fateful night, and the oddities of the case intrigue us so much that they keep pulling us back to muse and bicker.

This case inspires some of us to never accept the "obvious"... obvious is not always the answer.

She was an alcoholic, one that had supposedly relapsed. We know she has a history of blackouts, and CPS investigations saying basically that when she was drunk she didn't take good care of him. There was the half bottle of wine that people are saying that she might not have drank, but give an alcoholic a bottle of wine, that she bought, and it was found at the lake.

I would risk to bet that if you give an alcoholic a 1.5L bottle of wine at 8:00pm, that bottle of wine would be drank-up by 10pm. Why was there a half bottle left in the morning?

Also, IMO when she is on that video tape at the store, she looks a little happy already to me. And why was she leaning on the counter like that, it didn't look like she was signing a credit card receipt.

Maybe we should explore reasons why people lean on the counter when a clerk is showing them a map.

(1) to see closer what the clerk is pointing to
(2) to see better because the lighting in the place is not enough, or because the lights cause glare on the eyeglasses
(3) when one is tired, has a headache, or other ailment
(4) to make the clerk feel less nervous
(5) to flirt with someone behind
(6) to undo a wedgie without picking
(7) when one is drunk and needs the support only a sales counter provides

I could think of others, but I think that's 'nough for now.

Is there any evidence of a car accident? So maybe she did hit her head.....after she was DRUNK.

There were reports of damage to the fender and pictures taken show slight damage to the car. So, it's possible she hit her head.

I come here for the milk and cookies, I don't know why others come.

The discussions are pretty interesting, too.

 

[Jani]

I didn't want to make you wait

Here is my original post and the link:

A friend she grew up with just wrote this about her on the news page:

(I didn't hear about the emergency lights...)

"I believe that she was drinking. It clearly shows in her actions and reactions on that night. Why did she put the emergency blinkers on in the parking lot of the conveience store she was at when she bought the wine. I think she was drinking all day. Mabey dealing with reconciling with her step-father and the bad news of possible cancer of her fience proved to be a little to much to take for a recovering alcholic. I know because I too have delt with some of the same issues in my past. you drink to deal and not feel. I have known Shantina since grade school and for a long time was very close to her almost like sisters. I know she had her demons but I do believe in change and her desire to break free from all the chains holding her down. I think she was happy. I think that could have scared her, being so happy, her relationship with her fience and finally finding peace in her chaotic world."

http://www.komonews.com/news/88274362.html

Thanks, but YIKES, my computer says that site was reported as an attack site ?? (anybody else get that message?), so I couldn't read it.

I believe the person said it, but it is only her opinion. I am still giving Shantina the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[SMK]

How does this explain the police finding no evidence of anyone else being in the car?

Unless it was premeditated and someone knew what they were doing - but that seems pretty far fetched.

I agree, in that sense, it doesn't add up. But suppose someone were walking the beach at night, and in the darkness, saw a young female form standing there. Would the rocky beach, later swept by high tide, show the footprints? Maybe he lured her to his own car or home? And the poor boy awoke alone and scared (the pounding at 1 am) and later returned to the van, got swept away and drowned? I know its not adding up, but it keeps looming. I guess I could be all off base, and a few others.....time will tell....or at least I hope so....:banghead:

 

[nnglas]

No excuses.

Just some "inquisitive" minds want to know the exact circumstances that led to the events on that fateful night, and the oddities of the case intrigue us so much that they keep pulling us back to muse and bicker.

This case inspires some of us to never accept the "obvious"... obvious is not always the answer.



I would risk to bet that if you give an alcoholic a 1.5L bottle of wine at 8:00pm, that bottle of wine would be drank-up by 10pm. Why was there a half bottle left in the morning?

So where exactly do you think the other half went?



Maybe we should explore reasons why people lean on the counter when a clerk is showing them a map.

(1) to see closer what the clerk is pointing to
(2) to see better because the lighting in the place is not enough, or because the lights cause glare on the eyeglasses
(3) when one is tired, has a headache, or other ailment
(4) to make the clerk feel less nervous
(5) to flirt with someone behind
(6) to undo a wedgie without picking
(7) when one is drunk and needs the support only a sales counter provides

I could think of others, but I think that's 'nough for now.

Didn't know that she was looking at the map. That is why if anybody knew why she was leaning on the counter. Thanks for the clarification. Or is this just a guess that wasn't show on video? Absent any other clarification I'm going with number 7.



There were reports of damage to the fender and pictures taken show slight damage to the car. So, it's possible she hit her head.

Again, didn't know about the damage. However, you think if she was in an accident it didn't have anything to do with drinking? So we still come back to the same conclusion. I said that it was possible that she did hit her head. After she was drunk....

I come here for the milk and cookies, I don't know why others come.

The discussions are pretty interesting, too.

Also, got to wonder, who knocks on people's doors to ask for directions? The area she was in when she did that, anybody know if there were businesses in the area?

 

[nnglas]

Thanks, but YIKES, my computer says that site was reported as an attack site ?? (anybody else get that message?), so I couldn't read it.

I believe the person said it, but it is only her opinion. I am still giving Shantina the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Seriously? I mean she was an alcoholic that bought wine. I just don't see the sherlock holmes mystery here. She was alone on the video, alone (as far as they know) wherever she bought the corndog, alone when she asked for directions. She was already acting very strange. Not to mention her son, showed no signs of struggle or fighting.

 

[SMK]

Seriously? I mean she was an alcoholic that bought wine. I just don't see the sherlock holmes mystery here. She was alone on the video, alone (as far as they know) wherever she bought the corndog, alone when she asked for directions. She was already acting very strange. Not to mention her son, showed no signs of struggle or fighting.

Yes, all true, but could someone on the beach have taken advantage of this disoriented, tired, nervous, upset young female and a possibly sleeping child? It is not impossible, is it? :waitasec: