weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012

[Macright]

People lie all the time. They lie about everything.

Politicians lie before they get elected...........just to get elected.

How many people have ever told someone their newborn baby is butt ugly?

Teenagers lie all the time...........it's normal.

If you look at the profiles on the dating sites, I guarantee you won't see too many that say.............

Older guy, balding, good sized pot belly, average income enjoys watching television, drinking beer, no long term ambitions, but a special fondness for pickled eggs.

JMO

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Tahorn]

Misrepresenting yourself is 'dating'? I always thought dating was 'getting to know each other', not 'lying to somebody to make yourself appear better than you are so they will like you'. Eep. I've been doing it wrong!

I don't know... if I was dating somebody, and found out that they were lying about their jobs, their friends, etc, that would raise some major red flags to me. If they can lie about something so simple like what they do for a living, what else are they lying about? Starting a 'relationship', even a casual one, with lies is NOT a good way to start! :moo:

Without bad dates there would not be any good sitcoms ...

 

[Wondergirl]

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest. (YUP!)
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases. (HMMMMM)
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive. (I think I need a hammer)
D. Repeated assaults on others. (YUP!)
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety. (YUP)
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations. (YUP!)
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others. (YUP!)

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

Check, check, check ...

If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck .... then....

JMO

Exactly!

 

[BorgQueen]

People lie all the time. They lie about everything.

Politicians lie before they get elected...........just to get elected.

How many people have ever told someone their newborn baby is butt ugly?

Teenagers lie all the time...........it's normal.

If you look at the profiles on the dating sites, I guarantee you won't see too many that say.............

Older guy, balding, good sized pot belly, average income enjoys watching television, drinking beer, no long term ambitions, but a special fondness for pickled eggs.

JMO

Leaving out details, such as a fondness for pickled eggs isn't lying. Not every detail of a persons life needs to be revealed right away.

If you met somebody who's profile stated that they're young, athletic with a good build, great hair, high income, would rather go play sport than watch television, hates beer, ambitious, and HATES pickled eggs with a passion... then later find out that none of this is true... would you even want to continue? Or would you be unable to trust them?
:moo:

To me, there is a BIG difference between selling yourself when dating, bringing forth your positive qualities while leaving out the less-than-attractive qualities, and telling people you're a dance-instructing, construction-working, youth service worker with colon cancer, a dead stepson, and a sick mother... but maybe that is just me? :moo:

 

[Alethea Dice]

My understandinng of the two blond hairs is that there wasn't enough mitochondrial DNA available from either strand to make an identification of the source.

Originally Posted by ChaChaCha and respectfully snipped.

I don't know how to quote/reply from a previous thread, but it appears many are under the impression that neither strand of hair on the coat was able to be identified. One of the hairs was found to have female DNA, but both Tori and TLM were excluded.

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
Derstine reminded by McLean about blonde hairs on the coat. She said one of the hairs excluded Tori's DNA. The other undetermined.

London Free Press@RaffertyLFPReply
Derstine asked about blond hairs on pea coat. McLean repeats that Stafford was excluded from one of the hairs from coat that was tested

Avery Moore@AveryFreeFMNewsReply
Jennifer McLean says 1 of the blonde hairs found on coat was tested, female DNA found. Wasn't Tori's or Terri-Lynne McClintic's.

 

[Wondergirl]

Is someone having a trial sleepover?!

 

[Salem]

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest. (YUP!)
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases. (HMMMMM)
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive. (I think I need a hammer)
D. Repeated assaults on others. (YUP!)
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety. (YUP)
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations. (YUP!)
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others. (YUP!)

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

Check, check, check ...

If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck .... then....

JMO

RBBM - ummmmm, so are we talking about MR here or what? He can't hold a real job so he makes them up, he lies about himself and other things, he dates numerous women, conning them and telling them quite the variety of stories - none of which appear to be true.

He paints the inside of his car in the most awful way - for what???? That is weird, in my opinion, solidly weird :what:

He uses aliases and fancy spelling of his name to match his high esteem of himself.

He rationalizes the pain he inflicts on others by saying he didn't know what was going on? Or they need a little bit of love? Or Tori is fine and she will be home soon?

As for the hammer - it appears to me MR had that pretty well planned out. I wouldn't call him impulsive - I think he plans and schemes well in advance of his actions.


Salem

 

[ChaChaCha]

Originally Posted by ChaChaCha and respectfully snipped.

I don't know how to quote/reply from a previous thread, but it appears many are under the impression that neither strand of hair on the coat was able to be identified. One of the hairs was found to have female DNA, but both Tori and TLM were excluded.

Thank you Althea .... you are correct and I should have been clearer in my post.

 

[brighidin]

Perhaps ... but I don't think so. It's all related. JMO

You think the people at yorkville dentistry are related to this? Um. Wow. You go with that then.

I believe this was a question, not a statement. JMO

I'm aware that it was a question of sorts. If you read my original post on the matter, you will see that I asked for a link that might verify it. It wasn't a facetious request: I can't read every single post and tweet, and could very well have missed something so I asked. They replied with a picture of MR and a dentistry blog. Hence my reply, which you quoted.

There is nothing wrong with asking for a link. Thanks for trying to help though.
moo

 

[swedie]

...I find my self back here again tonight and a great need to post ...been with this case from the beginning ...April 2009 ...l just read the post about how this has affected so many here others deeply ...and some reason : ( my reasons.....
1. for most a parent
2. teacher of primary chidren and cried when I heard tori's teacher recount her last day at school ...man that affected me as I know how close we become to our class.

3. watch her family video saw the love that surrounded Tori and her family

4. ...and in a few short hours that was cut off ...a normal day turned into a PROVINCIAL NIGHMARE ....how can we ever Take away that PAIN....answer never....but Rodney tried to soar forward ....to TRY ... help this horrble tragedy from ever affecting another family ...with his marthon ...trully courgeous

5. But hearing the testimaony knaws at me ....& read posts of a sociopath...so much many bells rang IMO ...all that manupulation and lies

6. I trully pray that the jury comes to a logical verdict ....IMO ...this is scary that people wonder our streets & endanger our children ....I signed the Tori Law to help in the cause ....every spring it is very scary how many letters we used to hand out to children to WARN Parents of suscipious cars lurking around our schools ....Please join me in praying JUSTICE is seen as I never remember such a horrendous crime in Ontario .....I know a few people from Woodstock and how this tore at them all ....thanks for all the support here...kind of upset to say the least...robynhood

Bless your heart Robynhood. :blowkiss: I can fully understand where you are coming from being a teacher and the children you deal on a daily basis. Teachers spend more time with students then some parents spend with their own children. Some times it just happens that way due to parents working or for whatever reason. Some teachers really make huge positive impacts on some children. Thank you for being one of those teachers. I am sure you are appreciated by so many parents and students. Maybe you don't hear many thanks but just know in your heart you are appreciated by many. Like the old saying goes, "it's a thankless job but somebody has got to do it". Keep up the great work. :moo::seeya:

 

[swedie]

I wonder if we'll be hearing any more information about MR's childhood? Considering he was living with an aunt and uncle in Drayton I'd say something was up. JMO

Wonder if the aunt or uncle will be called upon? :waitasec:

 

[swedie]

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest. (YUP!)
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases. (HMMMMM)
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive. (I think I need a hammer)
D. Repeated assaults on others. (YUP!)
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety. (YUP)
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations. (YUP!)
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others. (YUP!)

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

Check, check, check ...

If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck .... then....

JMO

Very fitting for both MR and TLM. :moo:

 

[swedie]

I believe she killed Victoria and that he handed her the garbage bags and hammer to do so.

MOO

I totally agree Kamille. Did MR not say something to the effect that it was her turn, meaning for her to go into HD? I bet after he raped Tori and threw her to the ground, he called TLM over from her spot where she was taking in her surroundings, after he put the garbage bag over her head or took the stuff out for TLM and handed TLM the hammer saying "your turn". JMHO but that's how I feel it all played out. MR knew TLM would do it. He did tell her that they were in this together. AND he knew exactly what was going to happen in the end that's why he said "we can't keep her and we can't take her back". Master planner and manipulator. :moo:

Tori asked a number of times where they were headed. McClintic told her they were "going for a drive," though she testified that she, too, did not know where they were going.

They then travelled to the home of one of Rafferty’s friends, McClintic testified, before driving to a Home Depot at the north end of the city.

McClintic said she went into the store to purchase a hammer and garbage bags, because she had been "instructed" to do so by Rafferty.

McClintic said they then headed out of the city and into a rural area. She testified that Rafferty began masturbating as they turned down a laneway.

They eventually stopped but McClintic left the vehicle because she knew what was going to happen.

"I believed he was going to rape Tori," McClintic said Tuesday.

McClintic said she turned away and heard screaming.

She said she did not watch what was happening though she heard much of what was going on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/13/tori-stafford-court-trial-day-five.html

 

[swedie]

I think you might be right about that! But it doesn't make him any less capable of manipulating a drug addict who talks about murder into killing a little girl he intends to rape.

Speaking of drug addict. MR wasn't new to oxys according to the one woman who dated him and said they were inseparable. She said he was taking oxys then 2005-2007 IIRC. BA said she had been supplying MR for about a year or so...:waitasec: I would love to know where he got all his money for drugs, clothing, gas, insurance on his car, paying for dates (then again probably dutch treat or he let the ladies foot the bill). Oh yes he did mooch off mommy and couch surfed between girls or friends. Drug dealing? I now recall a couple of reports where he told people he had a bad back. Colon cancer? CCP disability? Where is that lie list. :waitasec: :moo:

By the way Snoof and Sailor Bug that's terrific you started a MR lie list. I see it's pretty big for just starting it. :blowkiss: Anyone found more lies for TLM's list?

 

[Salem]

WARNING: There is to be no discussion of innocent minors. Right now the only info on a step son is what the girlfriend said - and there is nothing in the testimony that indicates it is true.

Until something comes out in the MSM or the trial, the discussion is off the table.

Thanks everybody,

Salem

 

[swedie]

That's a really good question, I had not thought about. You'd think he would shy away from first time dates from an online service if had cold sores, etc.

<modsnip> JMO

I don't think a cold sore would stop a sexual deviant. Also that may have been one of the many reasons women gave him the brush off. I remember one woman saying she couldn't wait for the date to end. HTH and :moo:

Rafferty refused to look at one woman, SC, 29, of Kitchener, as she described an April 19 date that she said she “just wanted to be over.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/13/rafferty-joked-about-catching-toris-kidnapper-lover

 

[snoofer]

Anyone else wonder why MR's drug dealer in Guelph described him as broken out in cold sores and a nervous wreck........and none of the women he dated after the abduction mentioned anything about it?

JMO

ya i wondered if he had marks on his lips from the murder and MTR explained them as cold sores JMO Maybe TS head butted him or something.JMO

 

[swedie]

Women MR was involved with from 2005 to May 19, 2009, the day of his arrest

1. TL McClintic - 21, met at pizza shop Jan 2009. GF helped MR abduct Tori for alleged sexual/nefarious purposes. Received life sentence of 25 years in prison.

2. A. Lane - met MR in grade six and reconnect in 2009 through FB

3. Miss W<modsnip> - April 2009 - May 2009 GF at the time of his arrest. Dated for five to six weeks. IIRC met on POF.

4. J. Wood - woman known to MR. She was in her Honda in GLF parking lot day May 19, 2009 day of his arrest. Her car also seized by LE.

5. Kate - MR spoke about Kate (not real name), would not tell LE her real name.

6. B. Armstrong - 44, ex lover, met at BBeef/work late 2008, had girly talks with MR, supplied oxy drugs numerous times to MR including the day Tori was murdered.

7. Miss Unknown #1 (Pub ban) - 37, MR met her on POF April 12/09, MR told her about TLM in detention centre being questioned about Tori's abduction.

8. S. Hodge - 31, C&Y worker MR met on POF April 14/09, saw each other every day for two and a half weeks. Said he was a dance instructor. She mostly drove them around, MR on phone setting up dance appointments. MR told her he took oxy, he thought he had colon cancer. MR spoke to her about people abducting children raising them as their own. Obsessed with Tori's case listening to news and reading newspaper.

9. T. Moore aka Tam Tam, met MR on Yahoo 2003. She said MR bought car in 2007 from used car lot in TO. Noticed May 9/09 back seat and rear carpet missing from MR's car.

10. M. LaBute, MR met her at her workplace Staples March 2009 to Unknown saying he was new in town. She told MR she wasn't interested, described MR as nervous and needy. Spent a lot of time on phone keeping track of his workers claiming to own contracting business.

11. A Reid, 25 In spring of 2009 to early May 2009 she lived in London, near Fanshawe College. Met Rafferty on POF. Rafferty asked her to go to a stag and doe with him near the Hamilton area. She accepted. This was in early May.

12. S. Latimer is 50 year old real estate agent who lives on farm outside Woodstock, mother of six. Met Rafferty in Jan 2009 on POF.

13. M. Wagler 30, works at UofW met Rafferty January 2009 on POF. Rafferty's post said he was looking for romance. On Good Friday (April 10th) in 2009, he asked her to go for breakfast in London. She declined.

14. A. M. Chambers is 33 and lives in Woodstock. Met of POF. March 2009 to Unknown Date mother of two (boy and girl). Chambers knew Tori Stafford, at one point her family lived around block and Tori played with her daughter (age 16). Chambers said they started communication near end of March 2009 they went out for coffee, went bowling, he came over to house. Chambers said she had sex with Rafferty once. They got along well. JMO (Latole's opinion) I think she is the Amanda who he stated to police was friends with TM. Here is another OMG moment ... Chambers said #Rafferty told her he had a step-son named Jaden who had died 2 wks before they met. She said that pulled on her heartstrings.

15. No name (#2) - The next witness is a 28 year old woman who met Michael Rafferty online thru POF (as Mychol) at the end of March 2009. The woman texted frequently and they met for coffee on a Friday near end of April, Rafferty claimed he was teaching dance class in Kitchener. They exchanged cell phone numbers. Communicated by text message. The woman said there was little info on Rafferty's POF post - said he "wasn't into games" that caught her interest. Rafferty told her he was a contractor and dance teacher and wanted to travel. The woman said Rafferty showed up at her workplace at one point. She was asked to go to the Stag and Doe, but said no, as she wasn't feeling well. Said it seemed weird to ask her. He seemed upset. She worked at Staples. He came into the store to say hi, brought a coffee. He asked why she wasn't more excited to see him. She was busy.

16. S. Cooney - age 29, and lived in Kitchener in 2009. She also met Rafferty on POF. Cooney said Rafferty told her he was a contractor and ballroom dance teacher. She talked to him by phone first on April 12th, 2009. Cooney said Rafferty told her he was involved in search for Tori and was concerned. Said he was driving a woman to police for questioning. Rafferty discussed his family, said he didn't get along with his brother, had a bad childhood. She spent two hours with Rafferty, said she "wanted the date to be over". Had different views and values. He asked for 2nd date and she declined.

17. Rachel Diwell - 23, 2005 to December 2007 Diwell was 17 in 2005 and lived with her boyfriend when she first met Rafferty. Says they became inseparable. Friendship blossomed to more. Diwell said Rafferty lived in Guelph, has worked in landscaping, meat processing plant - aspired to be dance instructor but was unemployed. He showed her where he grew up. A farm house outside of Kitchener. They "drove around a lot". They would sometimes get out of the car and "become intimate." He drove. She only had a G1. Rafferty always seemed to know where he was going in the Guelph/Fergus area, she says. They took backroads. Rafferty washed his car regularly. She would help. They went to self serve car washes in Guelph, Kitchener and Cambridge. Rafferty told her he had back problems. They picked up percocets regularly (2005-2007). Diwell said she stopped seeing Rafferty around Dec. 2007.

Again, thank you Latole for your help on this list. :blowkiss:

:crazy: :hot: kay:

 

[BorgQueen]

Women MR was involved with from 2005 to May 19, 2009, the day of his arrest

1. TL McClintic - 21, met at pizza shop Jan 2009. GF helped MR abduct Tori for alleged sexual/nefarious purposes. Received life sentence of 25 years in prison.

2. A. Lane - met MR in grade six and reconnect in 2009 through FB

3. Miss W<modsnip> - April 2009 - May 2009 GF at the time of his arrest. Dated for five to six weeks. IIRC met on POF.

4. J. Wood - woman known to MR. She was in her Honda in GLF parking lot day May 19, 2009 day of his arrest. Her car also seized by LE.

5. Kate - MR spoke about Kate (not real name), would not tell LE her real name.

6. B. Armstrong - 44, ex lover, met at BBeef/work late 2008, had girly talks with MR, supplied oxy drugs numerous times to MR including the day Tori was murdered.

7. Miss Unknown #1 (Pub ban) - 37, MR met her on POF April 12/09, MR told her about TLM in detention centre being questioned about Tori's abduction.

8. S. Hodge - 31, C&Y worker MR met on POF April 14/09, saw each other every day for two and a half weeks. Said he was a dance instructor. She mostly drove them around, MR on phone setting up dance appointments. MR told her he took oxy, he thought he had colon cancer. MR spoke to her about people abducting children raising them as their own. Obsessed with Tori's case listening to news and reading newspaper.

9. T. Moore aka Tam Tam, met MR on Yahoo 2003. She said MR bought car in 2007 from used car lot in TO. Noticed May 9/09 back seat and rear carpet missing from MR's car.

10. M. LaBute, MR met her at her workplace Staples March 2009 to Unknown saying he was new in town. She told MR she wasn't interested, described MR as nervous and needy. Spent a lot of time on phone keeping track of his workers claiming to own contracting business.

11. A Reid, 25 In spring of 2009 to early May 2009 she lived in London, near Fanshawe College. Met Rafferty on POF. Rafferty asked her to go to a stag and doe with him near the Hamilton area. She accepted. This was in early May.

12. S. Latimer is 50 year old real estate agent who lives on farm outside Woodstock, mother of six. Met Rafferty in Jan 2009 on POF.

13. M. Wagler 30, works at UofW met Rafferty January 2009 on POF. Rafferty's post said he was looking for romance. On Good Friday (April 10th) in 2009, he asked her to go for breakfast in London. She declined.

14. A. M. Chambers is 33 and lives in Woodstock. Met of POF. March 2009 to Unknown Date mother of two (boy and girl). Chambers knew Tori Stafford, at one point her family lived around block and Tori played with her daughter (age 16). Chambers said they started communication near end of March 2009 they went out for coffee, went bowling, he came over to house. Chambers said she had sex with Rafferty once. They got along well. JMO (Latole's opinion) I think she is the Amanda who he stated to police was friends with TM. Here is another OMG moment ... Chambers said #Rafferty told her he had a step-son named Jaden who had died 2 wks before they met. She said that pulled on her heartstrings.

15. No name (#2) - The next witness is a 28 year old woman who met Michael Rafferty online thru POF (as Mychol) at the end of March 2009. The woman texted frequently and they met for coffee on a Friday near end of April, Rafferty claimed he was teaching dance class in Kitchener. They exchanged cell phone numbers. Communicated by text message. The woman said there was little info on Rafferty's POF post - said he "wasn't into games" that caught her interest. Rafferty told her he was a contractor and dance teacher and wanted to travel. The woman said Rafferty showed up at her workplace at one point. She was asked to go to the Stag and Doe, but said no, as she wasn't feeling well. Said it seemed weird to ask her. He seemed upset. She worked at Staples. He came into the store to say hi, brought a coffee. He asked why she wasn't more excited to see him. She was busy.

16. S. Cooney - age 29, and lived in Kitchener in 2009. She also met Rafferty on POF. Cooney said Rafferty told her he was a contractor and ballroom dance teacher. She talked to him by phone first on April 12th, 2009. Cooney said Rafferty told her he was involved in search for Tori and was concerned. Said he was driving a woman to police for questioning. Rafferty discussed his family, said he didn't get along with his brother, had a bad childhood. She spent two hours with Rafferty, said she "wanted the date to be over". Had different views and values. He asked for 2nd date and she declined.

17. Rachel Diwell - 23, 2005 to December 2007 Diwell was 17 in 2005 and lived with her boyfriend when she first met Rafferty. Says they became inseparable. Friendship blossomed to more. Diwell said Rafferty lived in Guelph, has worked in landscaping, meat processing plant - aspired to be dance instructor but was unemployed. He showed her where he grew up. A farm house outside of Kitchener. They "drove around a lot". They would sometimes get out of the car and "become intimate." He drove. She only had a G1. Rafferty always seemed to know where he was going in the Guelph/Fergus area, she says. They took backroads. Rafferty washed his car regularly. She would help. They went to self serve car washes in Guelph, Kitchener and Cambridge. Rafferty told her he had back problems. They picked up percocets regularly (2005-2007). Diwell said she stopped seeing Rafferty around Dec. 2007.

Again, thank you Latole for your help on this list. :blowkiss:

:crazy: :hot: kay:

RD.. MR dated her when she was 17. He would have been in his 20s. Um... so he was driving around back roads, going to secluded areas, getting out of the car and having sex with a minor...

On the opposite end of the age spectrum, he was dating (and I assume sleeping with) women who were significantly older than him.

He didn't discriminate much, did he? :moo:

 

[tmhco]

Bahahahahah aaaah ba hahahahah
If I remember correctly that was called dating ...

The point I was trying to make is MR is NOT an "innocent dupe". He seemed to be perfectly capable of manipulation, whatever the reason. JMO