What about all these 3's?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Maybe so. Hey, maybe that's a clue. Any IDIs willing to put there money where their keyboards are?

The link from the ransom note to the bible is just as ridiculous as the title of this thread. There isn't a three page composition that doesn't have words from the bible, so its a little ridiculous. You can read anything you want into it.

Besides there is no direct reference to religion in the note whatsoever. The expression 'denied her remains for proper burial' is more generic and non-denominational, as if written by an atheist. Clint VanZandt stated that Victory! had "revolutionary" connotations, and the author was 'used to exerting authority' and 'used commanding phrases'. Got any ideas?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nobody who is serious about the investigation can afford to dismiss hard evidence.

There are SOOOO many ways I could go with that statement, it boggles the mind!

Why does that not surprise me?

Beats me. Were I you, I'd be more interested in where I decide to take it!

Nonsequitir (nonsensical). Where are you going to decide to take what?

 

[BBB167893]

The link from the ransom note to the bible is just as ridiculous as the title of this thread.

There isn't a three page composition that doesn't have words from the bible, so its a little ridiculous. You can read anything you want into it.

That's a "no" vote from HOTYH!

Besides there is no direct reference to religion in the note whatsoever. The expression 'denied her remains for proper burial' is more generic and non-denominational, as if written by an atheist.

Oh, come on, HOTYH. I was raised Catholic. I know the importance of proper burial in the Christian faith.

Clint VanZandt stated that Victory! had "revolutionary" connotations, and the author was 'used to exerting authority' and 'used commanding phrases'. Got any ideas?

It might help if you printed the ENTIRE Van Zandt quote.

 

[BBB167893]

Nonsequitir (nonsensical). Where are you going to decide to take what?

You already answered it:

Nobody who is serious about the investigation can afford to dismiss hard evidence.

Just for starters, I could mention how I hope the Boulder DA's office doesn't find that out, because they've ignored all kinds of hard evidence for years and gotten away with it!

Or there's Lin Wood, who not only can afford it, he makes a fortune doing it. More accurately, he doesn't ignore it so much as he actively buries it. As a budding author, I can gain access to certain sources, and lately I've been in contact with people who have been privy to his more underhanded dealings. As one of them presciently put it, the reason Wood wears a toupee is to hide the horns!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It might help if you printed the ENTIRE Van Zandt quote.

I believe that is spin. I asked if those specific VanZandt remarks gave you any idea as to who wrote the note? Did he or did he not state 'revolutionary', 'used to exerting authority' and 'used commanding phrases'?

Does it or does it not give you any ideas, what with the KOREA word on the paintbrush, cross-border kidnappings, murders, executions, and 'disrespect for this country'? Are you drawing a blank or what? Hello?

"We are a group of individuals..."
"We are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics."
"Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter."

Still nothing, eh? Guess you dont get out much.

 

[BBB167893]

I believe that is spin.

Talk about throwing stones in a glass house. You were just unfortunate enough to run into a guy who's been at this long enough to know. I used to be an IDI. I learned from the Spin MASTERS.

I asked if those specific VanZandt remarks gave you any idea as to who wrote the note? Did he or did he not state 'revolutionary', 'used to exerting authority' and 'used commanding phrases'?

SURE, it gives me ideas. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like them!

Does it or does it not give you any ideas, what with the KOREA word on the paintbrush, cross-border kidnappings, murders, executions, and 'disrespect for this country'? Are you drawing a blank or what? Hello?
"We are a group of individuals..."
"We are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics."
"Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter."

No, I'm not drawing a blank. I'm just interested in knowing if they gave OTHER people ideas. As in, the RN writer?

Still nothing, eh?

No, it's not nothing. I just think it would help to remember that the context Van Zandt said those things in, namely that he agrees with me: the writer was saying those things to sound impressive.

Guess you dont get out much.

I'm not the least bit interested in your insults.

 

[Agatha_C]

Dave.... :great::great::great::great::great::great:... Beautiful!

 

[SunnieRN]

So, hotyh, which one of the three involved, was your MAAM? Or were all three MAAM's, including the one who waited in the kitchen, in case anyone from the family woke up?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

SURE, it gives me ideas. But I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like them!

I'm cheap, I'll take anything I can get. JUST GO FOR IT.

No, I'm not drawing a blank

Then what are you drawing?

I'm just interested in knowing if they gave OTHER people ideas. As in, the RN writer?

my big bold

Who is this 'they'?

 

[BBB167893]

I'm cheap, I'll take anything I can get. JUST GO FOR IT.

Leaving aside cheap, here you go: it just so happens that one of the home residents was a corporate executive, the kind of person who WOULD use commanding language and be used to exerting authority over others. Also, another home resident was a stage mother, ALSO used to doing such. AND, coincidentally, the exec in question was stationed in the Phillippines during the anti-Marcos uprising, when all kinds of revolutionary groups were coming out of the woodwork; some were commuists, like the New People's Army, some were Islamists like Abu Sayyef. Isn't that interesting? Not to mention that they lived in Boulder, the Tree-Hugger Wax Museum. You can't spit in that town without hitting some wannabe-Mao Zedong!

THOSE are the ideas it gives me!

Then what are you drawing?

(As John Wayne): a gun, pilgrim. And it's no secret who I'm pointin' it at.

my big bold

Who is this 'they'?

Not who! WHAT. "They" would be:

the KOREA word on the paintbrush, cross-border kidnappings, murders, executions, and 'disrespect for this country' I was saying that I'm interested in whether or not the RN writer got ideas from that.

 

[Steely]

Wasn't written ahead of time? What reason was there to write a RN after a murder?

The ransom note possibilities (some more plausible than others):
IDI wrote it before the murder
IDI wrote it after the murder
IDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)
RDI wrote it before the murder
RDI wrote it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide
RDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)

If RDI did it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide it would be to try to save themselves from prosecution.
If IDI did it after the murder it could be to try to implicate the R's in the death of their daughter.

I don't think an unknown intruder would kill JB and then stick around practicing and writing the RN. But...I think a known intruder, could have killed JB and then written the note in order to FRAME the parents. I don't really think this scenario is very likely but it is the only way that I can see that explains the note being written in the home and made to look like PR wrote it. Someone known to JB could have gotten her up and fed her pineapple...hit her over the head and all the rest in the basement. Then...gone up to write the note and been prepared to dispatch anyone who woke up. Maybe the murderer found that killing was hard for them...hence the reference to that in the note.

 

[mcsmom]

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering if there has been a comparison done between JBR murder and the Arlis Perry murder? Perhaps the larger size long underwear was intended to complete the staging, using the longer legs to form the Master Mason's symbol of Freemasonry.

 

[joeskidbeck]

mcsmom, it was her panties that were size 12. The longjohns actually were her size.

 

[Steely]

bold black: based on what we know, there's no way to draw any of these conclusions simply by knowing an intruder did it.

bold blue: No doubt if there were three intruders! I think one may have been sitting in the kitchen the whole time.

The DNA that was discovered had no reason to be in that house. They tested dozens or hundreds against the DNA.

These aren't conclusions I have drawn from knowing an intruder did it. I don't know an intruder did it. This is the only scenario that I can think of to explain the pineapple and the RN looking so much like PR wrote it. I think the only way an IDI did it is if they were trying to frame the R's. Perhaps the known intruder had help with the staging and that is why the DNA is where it is...it's just my humble opinion from conclusions I have drawn from limited evidence, some of which may be red herrings.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The ransom note possibilities (some more plausible than others):
IDI wrote it before the murder
IDI wrote it after the murder
IDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)
RDI wrote it before the murder
RDI wrote it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide
RDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)

If RDI did it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide it would be to try to save themselves from prosecution.

The ransom note handwritten by PR would be seen as causing themselves to be prosecuted, not saving themselves from prosecution. They would easily see that the handwritten ransom note would be the closest forensic evidence--the closest link--between the R's and the murder. Without the ransom note LE would have a sex motive, DNA, cord, tape, and blunt instrument NONE of which can be traced to the house or anybody in it.

If IDI did it after the murder it could be to try to implicate the R's in the death of their daughter.

There is nothing about a group of individuals from a small foreign faction that implicates the R's.

 

[txsvicki]

The ransom note possibilities (some more plausible than others):
IDI wrote it before the murder
IDI wrote it after the murder
IDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)
RDI wrote it before the murder
RDI wrote it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide
RDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)

If RDI did it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide it would be to try to save themselves from prosecution.
If IDI did it after the murder it could be to try to implicate the R's in the death of their daughter.

I don't think an unknown intruder would kill JB and then stick around practicing and writing the RN. But...I think a known intruder, could have killed JB and then written the note in order to FRAME the parents. I don't really think this scenario is very likely but it is the only way that I can see that explains the note being written in the home and made to look like PR wrote it. Someone known to JB could have gotten her up and fed her pineapple...hit her over the head and all the rest in the basement. Then...gone up to write the note and been prepared to dispatch anyone who woke up. Maybe the murderer found that killing was hard for them...hence the reference to that in the note.

Or, the person who had access to the home and writing materials could have plotted with someone else ahead of time. Not necessarily to set up the Ramseys, but practicing to forge checks or documents for money. This person could have been practicing Patsy's handwriting, and could have been doing the physical writing of the note along with the "intruder" who was to come in and do the dirty work of taking JonBenet. They could have been stupid enough to try and get some money, something went wrong and the intruder killed JonBenet. Or, the "intruder" could have been a pedophile and intended all along to kill JonBenet, hide her in the basement, while the person known to the Ramseys would be able to monitor the situation plus get 118,000 out of the deal.

 

[txsvicki]

It does seem like there might have been more than one person involved in it's composition doesn't it? That applies to RDI or IDI.

What do you mean about 'the three loops in the knot'?

Also what do you mean by 'I think Santa and things that could be related to Santa are more noticeable'??

The first post on this thread mentions 3 loops, and about Santa: JonBenet talking about a secret Santa visit, snacks left out possibly for Santa, dolls taken downstairs, the bear in her room, red fibers, beaver or animal fibers from trim or boots, and possibly taking her barbie gown if she thought there was a trip planned with Santa.

 

[MurriFlower]

The ransom note possibilities (some more plausible than others):
IDI wrote it before the murder
IDI wrote it after the murder
IDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)
RDI wrote it before the murder
RDI wrote it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide
RDI wrote it during the murder (one was writing while another killing)

If RDI did it after the murder/unintentional or accidental homicide it would be to try to save themselves from prosecution.
If IDI did it after the murder it could be to try to implicate the R's in the death of their daughter.

I don't think an unknown intruder would kill JB and then stick around practicing and writing the RN. But...I think a known intruder, could have killed JB and then written the note in order to FRAME the parents. I don't really think this scenario is very likely but it is the only way that I can see that explains the note being written in the home and made to look like PR wrote it. Someone known to JB could have gotten her up and fed her pineapple...hit her over the head and all the rest in the basement. Then...gone up to write the note and been prepared to dispatch anyone who woke up. Maybe the murderer found that killing was hard for them...hence the reference to that in the note.

I think you forgot one:

IDI wrote it intending to kidnap JBR for ransom but something went wrong..... she ended up dead, he/she/they scarpered forgetting/not bothered with retrieving, the RN

 

[MurriFlower]

Or, the person who had access to the home and writing materials could have plotted with someone else ahead of time. Not necessarily to set up the Ramseys, but practicing to forge checks or documents for money. This person could have been practicing Patsy's handwriting, and could have been doing the physical writing of the note along with the "intruder" who was to come in and do the dirty work of taking JonBenet. They could have been stupid enough to try and get some money, something went wrong and the intruder killed JonBenet. Or, the "intruder" could have been a pedophile and intended all along to kill JonBenet, hide her in the basement, while the person known to the Ramseys would be able to monitor the situation plus get 118,000 out of the deal.

And a very handy thing it would have been too, to be able to copy someone's handwriting. Easy to practice as they left you a lot of notes about jobs to do. Trouble is, you needed one big 'sting' rather than a lot of little ones that could get you caught.

 

[BBB167893]

The ransom note handwritten by PR would be seen as causing themselves to be prosecuted, not saving themselves from prosecution. They would easily see that the handwritten ransom note would be the closest forensic evidence--the closest link--between the R's and the murder. Without the ransom note LE would have a sex motive, DNA, cord, tape, and blunt instrument NONE of which can be traced to the house or anybody in it.

I guess that all depends on how you look at it. TO me, without the RN, all you have is a dead girl in her own home with sexual injuries and two parents with no alibi. There's no obvious explanation for why JB is dead and who did it. The RN gives the Rs any number of wildcard explanations AND the ability to claim victimhood. "Why are you cops bothering us. THIS person said they did it. Why aren't you looking for them?"

It's very easy to SAY things like, ransom note handwritten by PR would be seen as causing themselves to be prosecuted, not saving themselves from prosecution. They would easily see that the handwritten ransom note would be the closest forensic evidence--the closest link--between the R's and the murder, but the sad fact is that there will always be SOMEONE who will believe your story. As PT Barnum is supposed to have said, "there's a sucker born every minute." And all they'd need is ONE of those "suckers" to end up on a jury.