You can't do what you don't know.....

[MomofBoys]

The condition of JBR's corpse doesn't even scratch the surface of what a true sadist would have done. The only sadist here was the Rs, who watched with complete detachment the destruction of the lives of the people they tried to blame for the murder of their daughter.

ITA. I just now read this post.

I believe that a true sadist would have beheaded JBR. Made good on the note if they had already written it. If they had yet to write it, they wouldn't have mentioned a beheading.

 

[jujube]

My thought on the 3 pg note is this: if this was done by an outsider and if the outsider was hidden in the house for hours, they had plenty of time to write and rewrite a ransom letter. What the heck else would they do after they scoped out the house?

 

[Ravyn]

So I guess the intruder would know JBR favorite nightie knew that the blanket was in the dryer and set there trying to write like PR cause even one of the R's experts couldn't rule out that PR wrote the Rn.Heck,even Lou Smit even made a comment that she couldn't be ruled out.If you was a parent and knew you didn't do this would you invite all your friends over,or would you be careful and follow everything to the T unless you done know the truth that she was dead,as I said the R's made themselves look quilty.

 

[BBB167893]

The DA did not state "The DNA was transferred by an intruder" as if they came to that conclusion, since it could be there by innocent transfer. Instead, the DA stated that innocent transfer was 'highly unlikely' because of the locations where the DNA was found.

Convenienly leaving out that the DA had been in the tank for the Rs from Day One. Which strikes me as a fairly important consideration.

Based on this likelihood, the R's are considered to be most likely innocent. Thats called an evidence-driven investigation. Its what separates the men from the boys.

It's not men or boys that I'm worried about.

In contrast, the statement "PR wrote the note" obviously isn't evidence-driven. I mean, NONE of the BPD handwriting experts stated that, when they had no bias or interference. If you've already decided RDI, then of course PR wrote the note.

Chet Ubowski said that the ONLY thing that kept him from ID'ing her as the writer in court was "the bleeding ink from the black felt pen and disguised letters." Just what about that do you not understand?

Either that or JR wrote it, right? RDI would accept that either way.

Not THIS one!

 

[BBB167893]

Hey Hotyh.

hmm .... evidence driven?
okay, I see the distinction.
dna exact science, handwriting analysis subjective, quanitative

I wouldn't take what HOTYH says at face value, Tadpole. He conveniently leaves out that the DA Lacy had her mind MADE UP within the first week. Her basis? Because PR is a woman and Lacy is a radical feminist who can't believe that a woman would kill her own daughter.

And HOW do we know that? Because one of her OWN FORMER CAMPAIGN WORKERS had an attack of conscience and decided to share that little tidbit from a conversation he had with her, before he quit after finding out what a dog-lunch she was.

Still not convinced? She actually chastised Tom Haney for being too tough on Patsy during the '98 interviews. WHAT?! Number one, Haney was using by-the-book techniques. Two, if you look at the tape, he's being perfectly calm! No threats, no intimidation. He's very calmly giving her a chance to explain the evidence. Patsy is the one cursing and jumping around and acting like she's got a scorpion in her panties! What was LACY watching?! Tom Haney is one of the finest homicide detectives in the entire Rocky Mountain area, if not the country. His record speaks for itself. And here's this assistant DA, who at that time I don't think had ever tried a murder case in her entire career, and to my knowledge still hasn't, telling him he was too tough for using absolutely STANDARD interrogation techniques that the greenest rookie on the beat would know! Haney's general feeling was, "who the hell does she think SHE is?" Later on, she had the unmitigated gall to tell the cops that because they were men, they couldn't understand a woman's mindset. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! That may or may not be true, but it's a hell of a way to decide guilt or innocence!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

More ad hominem. Arent we forgetting the DNA test? Don't you need to discount the test too? I don't care if ML is a quack, the test speaks for itself.

Hey I just saw the JBR tab at the supermarket! IT WAS PRO-IDI!!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I sense a disturbance in the force.

 

[Ravyn]

Well that's your opinion but when Patsy made the statement there's two people that know who done this,the person that done it and the one they told, HMMMMM so strange to me.

 

[DeeDee249]

Strange to many people, Ravyn.

 

[BBB167893]

More ad hominem.

Don't change the subject!

Arent we forgetting the DNA test? Don't you need to discount the
test too?

I only take one step at a time; that's why I have two feet.

I don't care if ML is a quack, the test speaks for itself.

Ah ah! The test only says there WAS DNA. Not who left it, not how it was left, and definitely not WHEN it was left. ML's imagination/prejudices filled that in. Maybe you don't realize this, but that was kind of the POINT to my little rant (verbatim from the book, BTW): to give it some context.

Hey I just saw the JBR tab at the supermarket! IT WAS PRO-IDI!!

Yeah, it was only a matter of time before SOMEONE brought that up!

I sense a disturbance in the force.

You'd better believe it, buster!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ah ah! The test only says there WAS DNA. Not who left it, not how it was left, and definitely not WHEN it was left. ML's imagination/prejudices filled that in.

This isn't entirely true. We know a little about how it was left. The DNA wasn't left on the floor, on her feet, or on her forehead. It was left on her longjohns at the waistband, and mixed with JBR's blood in her underwear.

 

[KoldKase]

So now Team Ramsey is BACKING THE TABS?

Talk about switching horses in mid-stream.

The DNA is evidence of NOTHING until a name is put with it and the source is questioned.

THE DNA ALONE WILL NEVER, EVER CONVICT ANYONE. NEVER.

And that's a fact.

Since any defense is going to parade Patsy's ransom note around to a jury, COMPLETE WITH ALL THE EXPERT OPINIONS THAT SHE COULDN'T BE ELIMINATED AS THE WRITER, that's NOT GUILTY to any jury. FOREVER.

 

[KoldKase]

My thought on the 3 pg note is this: if this was done by an outsider and if the outsider was hidden in the house for hours, they had plenty of time to write and rewrite a ransom letter. What the heck else would they do after they scoped out the house?

Well, first off, there is NO EVIDENCE there was an intruder in the house for five minutes, much less hours. So there's that....

 

[BBB167893]

This isn't entirely true. We know a little about how it was left. The DNA wasn't left on the floor, on her feet, or on her forehead. It was left on her longjohns at the waistband, and mixed with JBR's blood in her underwear.

Okay. I can live with that.

(That wasn't too hard, was it?)

 

[KoldKase]

Okay. I can live with that.

(That wasn't too hard, was it?)

Uh...from the peanut gallery again....

Actually, I have a question on this "mixed DNA" issue.

How is it that the panty DNA is alleged to have been mixed with JonBenet's blood, but the RST claims IT MATCHES the new "touch" DNA?

The panty DNA is not a full profile, with one of the two spots from which DNA was raised having the largest number of identifiable markers--9 plus an iffy one. This partial profile is because this DNA was degraded, something that happens to DNA commonly in damp or wet conditions.

It's not blood and it's not semen, many sources have said. It could be from mucous, saliva, or skin.

So how does Team Ramsey NOW explain that it was "mixed" with JB's DNA?

A strand of DNA is like a chain with a spiral twist (the well known double helix). How can that be MIXED with JB's DNA and still come out to match on the available markers of the "touch" DNA? It would seem NOT to match if it was MIXED with the markers of JB's DNA.

What am I missing here? opcorn:

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

"DNA from two sites on the long johns matched genetic material from an unknown male that had previously been recovered from blood in JonBenet's underpants. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/10/earlyshow/main4247767.shtml

 

[KoldKase]

I've seen that statement many times, HOn, but it doesn't answer the question of how the unsourced DNA was "mixed" with JB's blood DNA and yet still matched the long john "touch" DNA.

You keep repeating that issue, so do you know the answer?

 

[Ripley007]

Before I get started, Maikai, I think it's helpful to remember who you're talking to. I used to be a very strong IDI. VERY strong. Obviously, that's done with now, and if you'de like to know why, I'd be happy to go over it (AGAIN), but for now, it's enough to know that I've been the route, and have made these arguments in the past.



That's fairly clear.



Not ALL. Most, I would imagine.



Plenty of time. Take it from a salesman: 8 hours is a loooong time.



You might as well move on.



Movie lines are all over the place, Maikai. Heaven only knows how many I can list off the top of my head.



Actually, the knots were very simple. Any dope could have made them.



There's no evidence a stun gun WAS used. And I'm not just talking out my *advertiser censored** here. I happen to own one. And I've had myself zapped several times to see if it was a viable theory. Let's just say the results were part-in-parcel to my conversion...



Someone sure tried to make it LOOK brutal, certainly.



Whomever did this didn't have a criminal mind, either! It was amateur night; you could tell. This was not a perfect murder by design; it was a perfect murder (or almost perfect) by luck.



It was, but in a much different way than you're thinking.



What do you think I've been doing for the last 12 years?

Super D-WOW! Facinated to learn that you used to be a strong IDI. New here, but got the feeling that this thread was "your baby" and RDI all the way. Misperception I guess...

OT-sort of-yesterday afternoon, while getting ready for work, I parked my TV channel on LMN and caught the first 40 minutes or so of the (re-run) movie "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" otherwise known as "How NOT to conduct a kidnapping/possible murder investigation"...

Realized I really need to re-read a lot about this case before posting more. Maybe I will or maybe I won't.

I noticed in the first part of the movie, when the camera showed JB's bedroom, her bedding was intact on her bed. I don't know where I am getting this memory from (VaNITY FAIR) perhaps, but I could have swore that I read JB's bedsheets were striped from her bed and soaking in her bathroom sink. Please clarify. TIA.

 

[BBB167893]

Super D-WOW! Facinated to learn that you used to be a strong IDI.

It wasn't a "St. Paul on the road to Damascus conversion," either.

New here, but got the feeling that this thread was "your baby" and RDI all the way. Misperception I guess...

This is the one case I really care about.

OT-sort of-yesterday afternoon, while getting ready for work, I parked my TV channel on LMN and caught the first 40 minutes or so of the (re-run) movie "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" otherwise known as "How NOT to conduct a kidnapping/possible murder investigation"...

Yeah, I just passed it on that channel a few minutes ago. Bro and I had a good laugh at how LS looks nothing like Kris Kristofferson.

Realized I really need to re-read a lot about this case before posting more. Maybe I will or maybe I won't.

I noticed in the first part of the movie, when the camera showed JB's bedroom, her bedding was intact on her bed. I don't know where I am getting this memory from (VaNITY FAIR) perhaps, but I could have swore that I read JB's bedsheets were striped from her bed and soaking in her bathroom sink. Please clarify. TIA.

I think you're thinking of the red turtleneck.

 

[DeeDee249]

Super D-WOW! Facinated to learn that you used to be a strong IDI. New here, but got the feeling that this thread was "your baby" and RDI all the way. Misperception I guess...

OT-sort of-yesterday afternoon, while getting ready for work, I parked my TV channel on LMN and caught the first 40 minutes or so of the (re-run) movie "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" otherwise known as "How NOT to conduct a kidnapping/possible murder investigation"...

Realized I really need to re-read a lot about this case before posting more. Maybe I will or maybe I won't.

I noticed in the first part of the movie, when the camera showed JB's bedroom, her bedding was intact on her bed. I don't know where I am getting this memory from (VaNITY FAIR) perhaps, but I could have swore that I read JB's bedsheets were striped from her bed and soaking in her bathroom sink. Please clarify. TIA.

JBR's bedsheets were stripped from the bed by police and taken into evidence, where testing showed creatinine (dried urine). Crime scene photos were taken before and after this. You may recall a photo of JBR's bed showing the foot section still intact. There were twin beds in her room (as well as BR's room) and the second bed was photographed neatly made. Photos available at ACandyRose.com. There are also photos of the stripped bed. They were never found soaking anywhere. It was a red cotton turtleneck that was found balled up in the sink outside of JBRs room.
The R family made the interior of the house available to Lawrence Schiller to re-create the house for the movie. His book seems to me to be neither RDI nor IDI. But there were some liberties taken with some things in the movie.

Ripley- rent the DVD of "Perfect Murder Perfect Town" I did. It is available on Netflix, but I bought a copy at Amazon.com.
It follows the book pretty well- and it is a 2-hour crash course. Better than not reading the book at all. I also read the book, but the movie is a time-saver. I'd also add ST's book "JonBenet and the City of Boulder"- both books are available in paperback. They are quick reads.
No one book is perfect- you can learn a lot just by reading all the depositions and interviews available on ACandyRose.com.