Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #47

[DrWatson]

"It's all about perception, I think." Sorry DrWatson I thought a scientific chap like yourself would have realised that this legal business is actually all about the facts.

Without wanting to hammer the point, I can see what Lychee Farmer is trying to say, and yes, it IS all about the facts.

But of course, to those on the outside of the case, the facts are only those that have been gleaned from MSM, from court appearances and documents, and basically from whatever has been "let out" to the public domain.

The interpretation of those facts, and the opinions as to whether or not certain statements are true or otherwise, including the interpretation by the jury, not just here or on other forums, eventually comes down to perception. That's what the prosecution and defence lawyers do - there job is to ensure that the perception of the evidence falls one way or the other. The facts are the facts - both sides deal with the same set of facts. But the perception of those facts by the jury will decide the case.

OK - I see little point in flogging semantics and hair splitting.

Same about the search - the police and the SES (who are all volunteers, by the way, and members of the public at large. Only the higher command officers are professionals) did the coordinated search, as is usual in these cases. But many members of the public searched not only their own properties, but were to be seen prowling around Moggill Creek, up to Gold Creek Reservoir, and many other areas. But they weren't part of the "official" search. Maintaining a vigil at search HQ is where I would have thought GBC and his family would have been - but they weren't.

 

[LadyBird1]

I get the distinct impression that the BC Clan and those close to it may be getting slightly nervous after watching Simon Gittany sink in his own manure. His friends and family actually sank him even further. Even employed a few diversion tactics. Just my perception.

 

[Couldbe]

To focus on constructing a theory (admittedly without any facts) which would support a scenario for this crime that is completely outside any involvement, or knowledge of it, by GBC or his family just doesn't produce a result worthy of further examination.
If there are any facts to support an alternative to the current charges, then I wish SOMEONE had given them to Police.

e.g. a scenario of Allison walking up the road, suddenly screaming (for whatever reason) ....... encountering somebody who had no motive (rape, theft .... except for stealing her phone) (NB: Autopsy Report)?

...... Not only JMO ... Not the Media, not the Police is using power to make the innocent guilty.

 

[Amee]

Again, around 120 police and volunteers are expected to continue the search across bushland, but police say that number will likely grow throughout the day.

Volunteers and even off-duty police have arrived to help where they can over the past 11 days
http://www.news.com.au/national/fam...n-clay-continues/story-e6frfkp9-1226342471221

 

[jojo85]

Off-topic, but related: I note that Michael Byrne QC, who is GBC's defence barrister, is acting for the prosecution in the Daniel Morcombe case.

They don't seem to be as differentiated here as they are in the USA, do they? Over there - as far as I can gather - there are prosecutors, and defence lawyers, and they rarely swap sides. Perhaps the US members of this forum can either confirm that or correct me if I'm wrong...

We saw the same thing with Peter Davis when he was acting for GBC as his defence barrister - he was also the prosecutor in the Jayant Patel case (which he lost).

Interesting, but I'm not sure if or how it would affect his work in defending GBC.

Dr Watson, I believe there are two Michael Byrne SC's in Queensland. I may have this all wrong but one seems to be a government lawyer (the one who is prosecuting in the Morcombe case) and then there is another who represented Patel in 2010. I wonder which one is representing GBC? It is off topic as you say and probably doesn't really matter but I'm curious .... and confused! I can't find any media photos from the pre-trial.

 

[jojo85]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-...n-brisbane-court-for-pretrial-hearing/5235982

Found a video!! If this is the B-C barrister then he is not the same Michael Byrne as the prosecutor in the Morcombe case. So I've answered my own question .... I think!

 

[possumheart]

What evidence do you have that Allison was "bullied" and "basically excommunicated" by the "BC clan?

From the wayback machine -
http://web.archive.org/web/20080813142527/http://century21.com.au/westside/ under 'Meet the team'.

Does your 'open mind' see Allison's profile as somewhat disproportionately limited here lychee farmer? Just a little bit demeaning?

To me it appears some of these fat cats are more equal than others. To me it looks like bullying.

However as I have an open mind I will turn it around and look at it from the point of view that as Public Relations person at Westside 21 Allison possibly put these profiles together. For some reason she didn't seem comfortable in describing what she brought to the team apart from a brief mention in Elaine's profile.

MOO

 

[Makara]

From the wayback machine -
http://web.archive.org/web/20080813142527/http://century21.com.au/westside/

Does your 'open mind' see Allison's profile as somewhat disproportionately limited here lychee farmer? Just a little bit demeaning?

To me it appears some of these fat cats are more equal than others. To me it looks like bullying.

However as I have an open mind I will turn it around and look at it from the point of view that as Public Relations person at Westside 21 Allison possibly put these profiles together. For some reason she didn't seem comfortable in describing what she brought to the team.

MOO

Love your wayback machine Poss. LOL.

I haven't seen this pic of TM before. She looks a lot younger there. I still don't know what that DH Baden-Clay was thinking!

Click images to enlarge.



This is the pic that was on the Century 21 website initially. Or perhaps the one above was the first pic and TM scrubbed herself up a bit and a new photo was added.

 

[possumheart]

Love your wayback machine Poss. LOL.

I haven't seen this pic of TM before. She looks a lot younger there. I still don't know what that DH Baden-Clay was thinking!

Click images to enlarge.

View attachment 40970

This is the pic that was on the Century 21 website initially. Or perhaps the one above was the first pic and TM scrubbed herself up a bit and a new photo was added.

View attachment 40971

Wow! The first one (which I haven't seen before) looks like the archetypal librarian.

 

[sosocurious]

"It's all about perception, I think." Sorry DrWatson I thought a scientific chap like yourself would have realised that this legal business is actually all about the facts. The perceptions of those of the "broad lawns and narrow minds" (quoting Hemmingway probably badly) matters little. I understand that owners searched their own properties. That is entirely different to saying that volunteers were conscripted to join the co-ordinated search of forest areas etc. I repeat my question, did other members of either family (beside the BCs) search (or anyone other than police and SES people) or did they simply maintain a vigil (which was entirely appropriate in the circumstances)? Like you I think it will be very interesting to see the voluntary statements that have been made (if any)???

Lycheefarmer I too think it will be very interesting to see any voluntary statements (if any).
The date of any voluntary statements (if any) would also be interesting.

Your participating in the websleuth discussion and your interest for the B-C family is very admirable. However, IMO their collective actions or lack of action speaks volumes and was always going to draw attention and trigger debate.
No theory, opinion or gossip as you call it discussed on websleuth or elsewhere will re-shape the legal process that is in motion.
The fact at this time is that the circumstantial evidence thus far has resulted in GBC being refused bail and currently awaiting trial for the murder of his wife in 4 months time.

In the quest for truth and justice has further evidence been obtained?
Have statements been made by individuals that were initially reluctant or unwilling??

I guess we will have to wait for the trial and as Doc Watson pointed out the perception of those facts will be decided by the jury.

 

[wewillgetyou]

Makara - the first photo of TMc is just how I remember her from court.

 

[Strangeworld]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234785"]AUSTRALIA: Police shoot boy’s attacker at sports oval in Tyabb - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

AUSTRALIA: Police shoot boy’s attacker at sports oval in Tyabb

Terrible terrible news unfolding right now.... :stormingmad:

 

[ollijack]

The poor boy and the poor bloody police....good lord...what horror it must have been
for everyone

 

[privato]

Large earthmoving project going on between Allison & Gerard's old home, and the Child Care Centre.
Wouldn't it have been great if they just dug up a certain mobile phone, that just happened to be salvedgeable?
Wishful thinking, I realise.

 

[Mountain Misst]

You want some facts? A little research with the bail hearing documents will reveal for anyone interested the BC family attempts to contact Allison via her mobile phone after the missing person call to police. In fact there were zero attempts from the in-laws at all and by mid-afternoon of the 20th, her husband had only dialed the number three times and never dialed the number again. It's what someone doesn't do, that tells all in this regard IMO.

 

[privato]

Thank you, MM.
My Granny taught me from a young age, that actions speak louder than words, and that which you have described above makes me ponder that very wise old lady's lessons!
If it was my wife or daughter-in-law missing, you wouldn't stop trying to call that number, would you?!

 

[BreakingNews]

You want some facts? A little research with the bail hearing documents will reveal for anyone interested the BC family attempts to contact Allison via her mobile phone after the missing person call to police. In fact there were zero attempts from the in-laws at all and by mid-afternoon of the 20th, her husband had only dialed the number three times and never dialed the number again. It's what someone doesn't do, that tells all in this regard IMO.

Hi MM. Wasn't it in an interview that GBC said the police told he and his family to stay away from the command centre and not look for Allison? Then police denied this? Or am I dreamin'?

 

[Liadan]

Hi MM. Wasn't it in an interview that GBC said the police told he and his family to stay away from the command centre and not look for Allison? Then police denied this? Or am I dreamin'?

I remember this too - one of the reporter asked if anyone had been excluded from the search and the guy in charge said no.

 

[Strangeworld]

Hi MM. Wasn't it in an interview that GBC said the police told he and his family to stay away from the command centre and not look for Allison? Then police denied this? Or am I dreamin'?

I think you might be right - probably because the BC's were suspicious from the moment the police arrived at the house.

I think there were plenty of ways the BC clan could have assisted when Allison was missing, and also after she was found. They literally closed up shop. Protection of themselves rather care, concern and compassion for their missing, then murdered, daughter in law.

 

[Amee]

He went on to deny ever instructing Mr Baden-Clay not to join the search for his missing wife in case he stumbled upon the crime scene.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...calls-court-20130319-2gdnx.html#ixzz2tBhBK4Zd

Not one single word said about Allison - Baden-Clay left talking to others

he maintained his silence, Allison's parents agreed to front the media for a police-organised press conference.

"As a mother, please, please help us to find our dear Allison," Priscilla Dickie sobbed as she spoke to reporters.

"Our lives will never be the same. We must find her."


I will never ever forget watching the plea the Dickies made truly heartbreaking.