Trial Discussion Thread #40

[Mysteeri]

4 shots - hmmm

wouldn't you simply fire at the handle so it would unlock.

The bullets might bounce off from the metal? Breaking the panel next to the handle would enable you to reach the lock inside.

Anyways, just a thought.

 

[BatGunKick]

BatGunKicks`s theory (thank you for the excellent work) and the door panel being loosened from the bat hits and shots made me think that perhaps OP was in a mad frenzy trying to break the door open and used the gun to try to shoot open the door/panel. The last shots were close to the door handle. So perhaps at that point he was not actually trying to kill her, not that it is in any way acceptable to shoot in such a reckless manner towards a person.

Hi The trajectory showed he adjusted his position and aimed after the first shot - towards where she was falling against the magazine rack - and fired 3 more. So pretty deliberate. I considered the theory of wanting to just get to her and shooting the lock, but the KEY is the escalating terror filled screams before the shots - if Reeva was in a locked bathroom, door closed, why scream like that? She MUST have seen the gun - hence the theory that she came out to get her phone, threatened to call the police after the bat attack, saw the gun, managed to get back in as he shot the first round - screaming for her life. I agree there was urgency on Oscar's part - but it was urgency to prevent her getting into a toilet and making that call to police.

She may not have even managed to lock the door - but he had to put this in his version and break down the door to (1) cover his bat damage already there... and (2) explain why he broke the door open in the first place.

 

[BatGunKick]

Why has the trial been postponed until Tuesday? Was it to give the DT/PT time to iron out the details or is there a holiday this Monday in SA?

no holiday here as I know of - perhaps giving everyone enough time to consult with relevant facilities ?

 

[Mysteeri]

Hi The trajectory showed he adjusted his position and aimed after the first shot - towards where she was falling against the magazine rack - and fired 3 more. So pretty deliberate. I considered the theory of wanting to just get to her and shooting the lock, but the KEY is the escalating terror filled screams before the shots - if Reeva was in a locked bathroom, door closed, why scream like that? She MUST have seen the gun - hence the theory that she came out to get her phone, threatened to call the police after the bat attack, saw the gun, managed to get back in as he shot the first round - screaming for her life. I agree there was urgency on Oscar's part - but it was urgency to prevent her getting into a toilet and making that call to police.

She may not have even managed to lock the door - but he had to put this in his version and break down the door to (1) cover his bat damage already there... and (2) explain why he broke the door open in the first place.

Yes, he did adjust his aim but was he actually able to see where she was?

But your theory in totality makes a lot of sense, I agree.

 

[BatGunKick]

Is there general consensus OP was on his stumps when he fired the shots, because it seems very unlikely to me based on his narcissism and the extended argument he had with Reeva, especially since he boasted to Nel he can don his legs in 30 sec. I believed Dr. Vorster that OP has serious stump issues, is ashamed of them, tries to spend as little time on them as possible, and especially imo when with a love interest who was probably packing up to leave him.

:seeya: Hi - the State and defense agree his was on his stumps for the shooting (even OP's version). I think having been arguing for quite sometime, he maybe didn't feel the need to put them on. I don't think he would be very perturbed about her leaving - he seemed very unattached when it came to women - (when he screamed "get the F out of my house" in court, many people here speculated that he was remembering screaming this phrase at Reeva) BUT I think if she started talking about letting people know what he's really like, not standing for this anymore, etc and grabbing her phone to report assault with a bat, he would not have had time and would have instinctively given chase.

Also, perhaps when he went to get the gun he was going to get his legs - and only when he heard her threatening to call the police grabbed the gun? (pure speculation). I think she def saw the gun, and this was the escalating screams.

 

[vansleuths]

I know the judge said her preference was for OP to be treated as an outpatient during the psychiatric assessment.

But, most of the pundits say that this never happens and all assessments are done on an inpatient basis.

When Tuesday roles around, do you think OP will be in for the shock of his life when it is revealed that he will be an inpatient and will that delay the trial even further due to the shortage of beds or will a bed magically be available for OP even though the reason of televising this trial was to show the equality of the SA judiciary system?

 

[Dphil]

I know the judge said her preference was for OP to be treated as an outpatient during the psychiatric assessment.

But, most of the pundits say that this never happens and all assessments are done on an inpatient basis.

When Tuesday roles around, do you think OP will be in for the shock of his life when it is revealed that he will be an inpatient and will that delay the trial even further due to the shortage of beds or will a bed magically be available for OP even though the reason of televising this trial was to show the equality of the SA judiciary system?

According to Dr. V OP is dangerous with a gun. IMO he shouldn't have been given bail in the first place and her evidence proved that to me.

If no beds are available his bail should be revoked - on the basis of Dr. V's testimony and that he frightened one of the witnesses. (I believe K. Myer's was on the original defence witness list??)

 

[BatGunKick]

Yes, he did adjust his aim but was he actually able to see where she was?

But your theory in totality makes a lot of sense, I agree.

I would say he couldn't see her, but heard the magazine rack and so aimed in that direction?

 

[BatGunKick]

Absolutely - LOVE it - well done you!

It's amazing how this trial has gripped everyone so much.

I'm in the UK and am totally addicted to watching the drama unfold - and unfortunately that's what it is.

I feel heart sorry for Reeva's family. They know who killed her - and all he's doing is coming up with a fairy tale and avoiding any responsibility - all they want is the TRUTH!

Also addicted - I fall asleep and hear Nel's voice (Roux too :facepalm
My only wish is for Reeva to get justice and for her family to feel vindicated for their loss, so much pain. Unthinkable.

 

[Mysteeri]

I would say he couldn't see her, but heard the magazine rack and so aimed in that direction?

Right, I forgot about that.

 

[BritB]

Good afternoon all.
Welcome BatGunKick...I am very impressed by your theory!
For the last few weeks I have been going over and over OP's version and so many things just don't fit.
I have come to the conclusion that both Reeva and OP were awake that night.I think they never went to sleep, either of them, and there was a row that rumbled on during the early hours of Feb 14th which somehow escalated in to a major fight. I believe that Reeva ran in to the toilet room to escape from OP either because he was threatening her or she was so terrified of something he was doing.

I also believe that the bat was used by OP to with hit Reeva or to smash the bath panel in anger hence the damage to the bath panel and the unexplained bruises to Reeva. That would explain the " blood curdling screams" heard by the neighbour.
Once in the toilet room Reeva refused to come out so OP was going wild shouting threats at her and bashing the toilet door with the bat.
If she told him that she was calling the police on her phone for help he fired the shots to kill her.If he had just wanted to frighten her at this stage he might have just fired the one shot but, IMHO, he fired the four shots to kill her.
This is a bit jumbled up but I am trying to explain why I think the bangs made from the bat noises heard by the witnesses occurred before the gun shots.

I am undecided about which side the door was locked too.Either Reeva fled to the toilet room and locked herself in to prevent OP getting to her in his violent rage or he locked her in to stop her leaving .I tend to think that if OP locked Reeva in that would fit in with the story because I find it difficult to see how he would be able to smash the door just several times and lean through the gap in the panel I order to retrieve the key and unlock the door.Particularly if it was, as OP claimed, completely dark.

 

[weeeva]

THE WATCH.
Hey - does anyone else think there is a significance to the watch that Oscar said went "missing"...? I have a sneaky suspicion that it has become such a big point to Oscar because it holds significance - could the watch have been broken before 3:17am during the fight? Blood was found on the watch box, and so I'm thinking if it broke before 3:17am it would be definite evidence his story is untrue. Wondering if at some point he saw the watch damage and that the time was stopped before the shooting... so he took it off and hid it and then put on a new one, getting blood on the box? (remember he asked his sister to return to the house and fetch another watch for him the following morning). This means he left the house without a watch. She could also have then retrieved the broken one and destroyed it?

He even mentioned in his testimony - interrupting Judge Masipa to remind her his watch was taken.


<modsnip>

At his best, man is the noblest of all animals; separated from law and justice he is the worst.
- Aristotle

IIRC a photograph was taken with all watches in place in a box. A later photograph showed that there were watches missing from box.

 

[fox1lady]

IIRC a photograph was taken with all watches in place in a box. A later photograph showed that there were watches missing from box.

I still think it was one of the family members who took it. Perhaps it was that police officer who was related; they would have known that this would be a way of incriminating the SAP.

 

[BatGunKick]

Yes, that's one of the main things that confirmed it for me, and is pretty much proof that he is lying about his version :thumb:

:ditto: If I was a juror, that would be the one thing I would hold to.

 

[BatGunKick]

Sure most have seen this - but an insight into OP's personality.

The texts:

Text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53308d7769bedd3c020e24c1-703-524/reeva steenkamp text.jpg

Another text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212648.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext2.jpg

Text from Oscar to Reeva:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212642.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext.jpg

'Unexplained" dent on bath in the bathroom (not related to the crime). Looks like he lost his temper in the past:

http://ewn.co.za/-/media/Images/2014/03/12/10/33/140312Steel-Plate-jpg.ashx

And this would do it:

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tsminteractive.com/files/2012/07/Oscar-Pistorius-blades.jpg

Seems he had a habit of losing it when frustrated.

 

[weeeva]

I still think it was one of the family members who took it. Perhaps it was that police officer who was related; they would have known that this would be a way of incriminating the SAP.

I don't believe that anyone tried to incriminate SAP. The Pistorius family had enough to contend with, to even consider such a thing. The way I see it everyone who was upstairs on that day is under suspicion .

 

[BritsKate]

Right, I forgot about that.

I know how you feel. I've followed lots of trials and this is the first one I've felt I need notes for my notes.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[MsMarple]

I have thought about the ear witnesses a lot.

I believe we can 'tune' ourselves for certain noise. I am not being disrespectful here but maybe some witnesses had grown up with noisy streets and gunfire....and some had not.

I grew up with very large thunderstorms and am used to the loud noises and bangs of said thunderstorms. My husband and children did not. I sleep right thru huge storms and everyone else, dogs included pile into the bedroom terrified !

Same house...they hear everything, I hear nothing !

PS....however a child crying, even softly.....I am up

That's an astute observation and research backs it up. It only takes a 5 db increase for a human to distinguish sounds apart from background noise. 5 db is approximately the amount of sound pressure of rustling leaves. Furthermore, humans are more sensitive to certain frequencies, including those generated by screams and babies' cries . And yes, some people sleep more soundly than others.

 

[Cherwell]

That's an astute observation and research backs it up. It only takes a 5 db increase for a human to distinguish sounds apart from background noise. 5 db is approximately the amount of sound pressure of rustling leaves. Furthermore, humans are more sensitive to certain frequencies, including those generated by screams and babies' cries . And yes, some people sleep more soundly than others.

That's true enough, but when you look at a plan of the neighbourhood* I think it's easy to see why certain people heard certain sounds while others did not. Especially when you factor in that different sounds may have originated from different parts of the Pistorius house.

*as it was then. Houses have since been built on previously empty plots.

 

[patCee]

Exactly. Love the fact that we can all connect to get to the bottom of this. Interestingly there was a VERY telling video on youtube of the day Dr. Voster testified showing the utter anger of Roux when he couldn't talk to her before she got on the stand (she went into court using a different door). Before Dr. Foster took the stand for Oscar's team, Roux was clearly wanting to talk to her before she took the stand (to possibly guide her) - he sends both Brian Webber and Roxanne Adams to go and find Dr. Foster, but then Dr Foster comes in the OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT. You can see Roux tries to get an adjournment, judge Masipa says no, that someone has arrived. Roux then turns to Roxanne Adams who has returned to sit behind Roux, and asks her: "Did he get to talk to her?" She looks like a deer in headlights: she says: "Not Yet." Roux then freaks out at her and she says defensively: "She went round the other side!" Then Brian Webber returns (having not completed his assigned task of chatting to Dr. Foster). Roux lays into them both further and the whole team looks... well..... TOAST.
The rest as we know is history. In a weird turn of events, it is no longer viewable at the link: Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 12 May 2014, Session 1 - YouTube
"Oscar Pistorius Trial Monday 12 May 2014, Session 1" at the 1h28m18s mark.

You can see the video, part referred to at about 1.24 at the end of Wolmaran's testimony. I've just this second had a look. It's Day 29.

http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2811169