Trial Discussion Thread #40

[MsMarple]

BatGunKicks`s theory (thank you for the excellent work) and the door panel being loosened from the bat hits and shots made me think that perhaps OP was in a mad frenzy trying to break the door open and used the gun to try to shoot open the door/panel. The last shots were close to the door handle. So perhaps at that point he was not actually trying to kill her, not that it is in any way acceptable to shoot in such a reckless manner towards a person.

Seeing as OP himself claimed that the shots were not grouped very well I can see a scenario where he was trying to shoot out the lock – Old West or CSI style – in order to make Reeva come out, and just messed up his aim. OP also claimed in order to stay balanced he had to constantly move around on his stumps, which could support that scenario.

At one point I considered a version where OP and Reeva started arguing over something small and it escalated enough that Reeva went into the toilet to have a good cry or to wait for OP to calm down. Unable to cajole her out he tried to shoot the lock and missed. When he realized he'd hit her he made a snap decision to cover it up.

I discarded that one mainly because it was just too cold-blooded, even for OP. But I hadn't considered the possibility that all his shots, fired in a blind rage, could have been aimed at the lock. Thanks for the thought!

BTW, I'm not making excuses for him, just trying to make sense out of a nonsensical act. Every single thing OP did that night is morally reprehensible.

So many possibilities. Oddly, the least believable version continues to be OP's. :what:


ETA: Looks like BritB had similar thoughts. I'm in catch-up mode and hadn't seen her post until after posting mine.

 

[Val1]

Uncle Arnie said, "He’s battling. He’s having a tough time and he will never be the same. You know, you know, you can imagine if something like that happened to you."

Poor special little OP, he's the victim, we all know that. It just makes me want to uke:

OP certainly didn't look like a victim, or full of shock, remorse or sadness just 8 days after he killed RS... to me he looks like he's still feeling residual rage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/21/oscar-pistorius-case-jail-bail

 

[Feynman]

OP certainly didn't look like a victim, or full of shock, remorse or sadness just 8 days after he killed RS... to me he looks like he's still feeling residual rage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/21/oscar-pistorius-case-jail-bail

I don't think anything can be concluded from one photograph.

 

[MsMarple]

That's true enough, but when you look at a plan of the neighbourhood* I think it's easy to see why certain people heard certain sounds while others did not. Especially when you factor in that different sounds may have originated from different parts of the Pistorius house.

*as it was then. Houses have since been built on previously empty plots.

ITA. I edited my post to keep it from turning into a novella but you're absolutely right; I was addressing the way people discriminate between sounds but yes, environmental factors play a big part of who hears what, even at a distance.

Here's a paper that describes, starting on page 3, a reenactment of an actual crime in order to show if a woman's scream can be heard from a distance. It's not identical to this case but it illustrates exactly what you're saying.

http://www.audioforensics.com/PDFs/AES122_Scream.pdf

 

[Val1]

I don't believe that anyone tried to incriminate SAP. The Pistorius family had enough to contend with, to even consider such a thing. The way I see it everyone who was upstairs on that day is under suspicion .

I would prefer to qualify that with whoever was upstairs between the time that the initial picture of the box of watches was taken and when the watch/s? went missing, otherwise, agreed. I still suspect that the one that OP flaunts in court and has on occasion been seen on his sister's wrist may be the watch in question. I noticed he hasn't worn any watch for much of the trial and if you look at pics from before that night, you'd be hard pressed to find him wearing any then either.

 

[Val1]

I don't think anything can be concluded from one photograph.

Not even compared to the puking mess we've been subjected to in the trial? Hmm, ok, just seems very odd that this GAD is being presented now to excuse his behaviour that night, yet he certainly doesn't seem to be feeling anxious let alone distraught in that pic, taken in court at his bail hearing for the murder of his "beloved" just 8 days after he'd "mistakenly" killed her.

 

[Duchy]

Exactly. Just like why he didn't skip the country as soon as his bail conditions were relaxed, he thought he could talk his way out of a guilty verdict. After all, his brother was able to get away with killing someone, why not OP as well?!?

MOO

and Uncle Arnold will sort everything out anyway:sweep:

 

[lithgow1]

Too much detail for me at this time of night but others in earlier time zones may be more kindly disposed. I'll read it tomorrow.

http://whosyourdadic.com/2014/05/18/the-oscar-pistorius-trial-could-he-walk/

 

[CriLondon]

Sure most have seen this - but an insight into OP's personality.

The texts:

Text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53308d7769bedd3c020e24c1-703-524/reeva steenkamp text.jpg

Another text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212648.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext2.jpg

Text from Oscar to Reeva:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212642.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext.jpg

'Unexplained" dent on bath in the bathroom (not related to the crime). Looks like he lost his temper in the past:

http://ewn.co.za/-/media/Images/2014/03/12/10/33/140312Steel-Plate-jpg.ashx

And this would do it:

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tsminteractive.com/files/2012/07/Oscar-Pistorius-blades.jpg

Seems he had a habit of losing it when frustrated.

Just found something that struck me again , i had nearly forgotten about it.
In your second link (another txt from Reeva to Oscar) at the end she says "i can't be attacked by outsiders for dating u".
Ouch , Reeva , you were being told. Bless ....love is blind .

 

[Val1]

I fully agree with you. Oscar has tried to include everything he did that night into his version (so as to then have an explanation for everything to tailor his testimony accordingly and cover up). HE keeps mentioning a kick, so I'm sure that's what he did to the door - after 3:17am. He mentions 3 things: 'shouldering the door' 'kicking the door' and 'breaking the panel out and throwing it into the bathroom' (the last one shows he is lying, as the panel actually fell into the toilet). Anyway, point being that he mentions these 3 things to cover up any noises heard after the shots. I think Dr Stipp heard one bang after the shots, maybe the plank falling in... a kick to an already weakened door would not travel to witnesses ears?

bbm1 - Perhaps he's describing what he did to the bedroom door, mixed in with the toilet door? Like how he says he screamed "get the *advertiser censored** out of my house, get the F### out of my house!" but claims it was directed at some unknown intruder that had hidden in the toilet room....

bbm2 - Probably not, but maybe a panel being pulled out and tossed against that now dented metal plate on the bathtub might?

 

[CriLondon]

Seeing as OP himself claimed that the shots were not grouped very well I can see a scenario where he was trying to shoot out the lock – Old West or CSI style – in order to make Reeva come out, and just messed up his aim. OP also claimed in order to stay balanced he had to constantly move around on his stumps, which could support that scenario.

At one point I considered a version where OP and Reeva started arguing over something small and it escalated enough that Reeva went into the toilet to have a good cry or to wait for OP to calm down. Unable to cajole her out he tried to shoot the lock and missed. When he realized he'd hit her he made a snap decision to cover it up.

I discarded that one mainly because it was just too cold-blooded, even for OP. But I hadn't considered the possibility that all his shots, fired in a blind rage, could have been aimed at the lock. Thanks for the thought!

BTW, I'm not making excuses for him, just trying to make sense out of a nonsensical act. Every single thing OP did that night is morally reprehensible.

So many possibilities. Oddly, the least believable version continues to be OP's. :what:


ETA: Looks like BritB had similar thoughts. I'm in catch-up mode and hadn't seen her post until after posting mine.

I've seen it put fwd by other members too , that he would try to shoot the lock down.
However , my thinking on that is that , if the only reason you're using the gun is to break the lock then i'd see it more plausible if he had (facing the door) taken his shots from a left to right direction , to AVOID hitting Reeva. But he shot from right to left as the trajectory has shown.
I don't see it making sense from a grouping perspective , more from what point he would have been shooting from.

JMO

 

[44ALLAN]

"I'm scared to sleep," Pistorius said, clutching a white tissue.

For several reasons. I have terrible nightmares about things that happened that night. I smell blood and I wake up to be terrified. I hear a noise, I wake up in just... in a complete state of terror..."

He said the turmoil drove him to climb into a cupboard one night and call his sister Aimee to comfort him, and spoke of religion as a support.
(There's something very creepy about this. All the soothing, praying, etc etc that's been going on in court. It seems OTT to me IMO.

"My God is a God of refuge," he said", but as we've discussed earlier, it's all about what God can do for him, not what he can do for God.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/04/07/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-17

Well I'm wondering if Aimee and Uncle Arnold are scared to sleep too with him in the house ?
I know it's not funny but if he's climbing into cupboards in the house I wonder if he knocks on the door first just in case Aimee or Arnold is hiding in there before him !!
Beggars belief that they feel safe at night...................bet Arnolds electricity bill has quadrupled with all the lights on 24/7 just in case !

 

[CriLondon]

Well I'm wondering if Aimee and Uncle Arnold are scared to sleep too with him in the house ?
I know it's not funny but if he's climbing into cupboards in the house I wonder if he knocks on the door first just in case Aimee or Arnold is hiding in there before him !!
Beggars belief that they feel safe at night...................bet Arnolds electricity bill has quadrupled with all the lights on 24/7 just in case !

Sorry , perhaps it's inappropriate ,but that made me laugh!

 

[MsMarple]

Sure most have seen this - but an insight into OP's personality.

The texts:

Text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53308d7769bedd3c020e24c1-703-524/reeva steenkamp text.jpg

Another text from Reeva to Oscar:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212648.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext2.jpg

Text from Oscar to Reeva:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9212642.ece/alternates/w460/pistotext.jpg

'Unexplained" dent on bath in the bathroom (not related to the crime). Looks like he lost his temper in the past:

http://ewn.co.za/-/media/Images/2014/03/12/10/33/140312Steel-Plate-jpg.ashx

And this would do it:

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/tsminteractive.com/files/2012/07/Oscar-Pistorius-blades.jpg

Seems he had a habit of losing it when frustrated.

The texts stick in my craw too. The expert testified:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26728917

On Monday Capt Moller revealed he had been able to extract some 35,000 pages' worth of messages from Ms Steenkamp's phone.

He said that 90% of the messages between the couple were loving, but he had picked out exceptions.

35,000 pages of texts. Even if the majority of texts not classified as 'loving' were neutral in tone that still leaves way more than the so-called few 'not loving' ones Roux would have us believe.

I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me.
...
I do everything to make you happy and to not say anything to rock the boat with you.

Notice she didn't say she was scared he might snap at her. Notice she didn't say she wants to or will do everything to make him happy. She's talking about real events - ones that had already happened or were happening.

If I saw any of that on my daughter's phone, big, bright red flags would start dropping down from the sky.....

 

[Fuskier]

Just found something that struck me again , i had nearly forgotten about it.
In your second link (another txt from Reeva to Oscar) at the end she says "i can't be attacked by outsiders for dating u".
Ouch , Reeva , you were being told. Bless ....love is blind .

Agreed. She states: "I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating u AND be attacked by you the one person I deserve protection from".

From her own words, we can safely assume her friends were 'warning' her; they did not support her dating OP; they obviously had reason for this belief.

 

[Cherwell]

On Monday Capt Moller revealed he had been able to extract some 35,000 pages' worth of messages from Ms Steenkamp's phone.

He said that 90% of the messages between the couple were loving, but he had picked out exceptions.

35,000 pages of texts. Even if the majority of texts not classified as 'loving' were neutral in tone that still leaves way more than the so-called few 'not loving' ones Roux would have us believe.

It's not clear to me that all those texts (35,000 pages, really? ) were between her and OP. She seems to have had a lot of friends, and she would have been conversing with them too, as well as family.

 

[44ALLAN]

My thoughts exactly. It had over ten thousand views. Veeeerrry suspicious.

Are you seriously saying ~Roux was angry because he didn't have time to prompt Vorster because she came into court by another door?

Please..................that is ridiculous.
And anyone saying as much without proof is stretching it to say the least.
Definitely something happened between Roux and his assistant but when exactly was Roux going to 'brief' her.................in the aisle leading up to her swearing in?

Do me a favour perleeeez lol

 

[Val1]

Still available here http://news.sky.com/story/1259691/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-30-as-it-happened

Starting at 1:39... it appears that Webber did go and talk to Dr.V. but when she didn't follow him in he went back out, then the female lawyer followed Webber, all the while W. was still packing up and leaving the witness stand. Then Roux standing all alone, started asking for a short adjournment, saying that "they" were probably coming in the other way, when the female lawyer came back in and sat down as the judge noted someone was coming in. To which Roux turned to the female lawyer, they had words, Dr. V. arrived unseen and was sworn in, during which Webber arrived and the three of them had words. Roux then turned to Dr.V., apologized that he'd been busy with his cross and forgotten to ask for copies of her report. However, it does appear that Webber may have spoken to Dr.V. on his first trip out of the courtroom while W. was packing up... only the court guards could tell us for sure 'cause the defence won't be offering any info. :twocents:

 

[44ALLAN]

BatGunKicks`s theory (thank you for the excellent work) and the door panel being loosened from the bat hits and shots made me think that perhaps OP was in a mad frenzy trying to break the door open and used the gun to try to shoot open the door/panel. The last shots were close to the door handle. So perhaps at that point he was not actually trying to kill her, not that it is in any way acceptable to shoot in such a reckless manner towards a person.

Have a look at the plan view of the 4 bullets trajectory and come back with your view as to whether they were random and aiming at the door handle...............and bear in mind where the bullets hit................Reeva.
They were not lucky or random shots.

 

[44ALLAN]

The bullets might bounce off from the metal? Breaking the panel next to the handle would enable you to reach the lock inside.

Anyways, just a thought.

Well you just answered your own question............OP would not fire at the handle for fear of a ricochet as he wouldn't fire a warning shot into shower cubicle for fear of a shot rebounding and hitting him !!

Give me strength ?