GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #7

[LancelotLink]

How did that come about? Autocorrect?

Either that, or he has a laptop like mine, which has been known to induce angry outbursts. :gaah:

 

[sonjay]

I believe this will prove to be noteworthy. To me, the park = EN.

I do believe you're right. Yep, they knew that EN hung out at the park. So we have to ask, why were they returning home from the north?

I'm still trying to puzzle out those driving routes.

Both KM and BM described a driving route that took them west on Alta. KM said north on Durango, BM said north on Cimarron. Then they both said east on Westcliff.

I think there was one trip, and either KM or BM got the northbound street incorrect. Others think there were two trips, one with KM and one with BM.

But in either case, why would the green car have made that big looping drive to the west, then north, then east, before heading back home?

If you believe the driving lesson story, they made that drive on the way home from the park to their house, but anyone who has looked at a map knows that that was not on their way from the park to their house. And then made a similar (but not identical) trip a few minutes later with BM in the car.

If you don't believe the driving lesson story, then the green car drove a loop to the west, then north, then east again for no apparent reason.

Since they both described such a similar route, I tend to think that the Buick made at least one such trip that night. (Possibly two, if there's any truth to the driving lesson story.) I can't figure out why, or how it would fit into the sequence of events. Possibly it was because they wanted to "sneak" up on EN at the park from a different direction, so that he wouldn't realize it was them. Possibly it didn't happen, but was made up on the spur of the moment to deflect police attention away from the park. Or possibly there was some other reason.

 

[sonjay]

Either that, or he has a laptop like mine, which has been known to induce angry outbursts. :gaah:

Angry outbursts at Sean?

 

[LancelotLink]

Angry outbursts at Sean?

Yes. I will love it and feed it and call it Sean.

 

[LancelotLink]

I do believe you're right. Yep, they knew that EN hung out at the park. So we have to ask, why were they returning home from the north?

I'm still trying to puzzle out those driving routes.

Both KM and BM described a driving route that took them west on Alta. KM said north on Durango, BM said north on Cimarron. Then they both said east on Westcliff.

I think there was one trip, and either KM or BM got the northbound street incorrect. Others think there were two trips, one with KM and one with BM.

But in either case, why would the green car have made that big looping drive to the west, then north, then east, before heading back home?

If you believe the driving lesson story, they made that drive on the way home from the park to their house, but anyone who has looked at a map knows that that was not on their way from the park to their house. And then made a similar (but not identical) trip a few minutes later with BM in the car.

If you don't believe the driving lesson story, then the green car drove a loop to the west, then north, then east again for no apparent reason.

Since they both described such a similar route, I tend to think that the Buick made at least one such trip that night. (Possibly two, if there's any truth to the driving lesson story.) I can't figure out why, or how it would fit into the sequence of events. Possibly it was because they wanted to "sneak" up on EN at the park from a different direction, so that he wouldn't realize it was them. Possibly it didn't happen, but was made up on the spur of the moment to deflect police attention away from the park. Or possibly there was some other reason.

EN said "I got those kids. They were after me and I got them." That coupled with RM trying to weasel out of his buick being recognized by EN are added reasons I believe the one trip scenario.

 

[sonjay]

Yes. I will love it and feed it and call it Sean.

:drumroll:

LOL, that cracked me up!

 

[BellaVita]

What I recollect from various media interviews with various neighbors, it was common knowledge that drug dealers hang out at the park. It's plausible that TM probably knew that, but we don't know for certain.

If the rumors are true that she did illicit business with EN, it's almost 100% certain that she knew about the park.

If the rumors are true, she would have -- or at least, should have -- known that it was EN she allegedly saw at the park who was allegedly making her nervous during the alleged driving lesson.

If the rumors are true, one has to wonder why she would hang out at the park so much, walking the dogs there, etc.

If the rumors are true, it makes it all the more mystifying that she would take her daughter to the school right next to the park at that time of night for driving lessons.

A neighbor went on record about TM and EN and illicit dealings in the park. Again, I go back to the LVDA statement:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html

Outside the hearing district attorney Steven B Wolfson told Daily Mail Online: 'There's been some speculation about drugs and drug use - but that's not the heart of the case.

'The center focus of this case is the interaction between adults which occurred one night - that's the focus. Somebody lost their life and it was stupid.'

He never says that drug use has NO part in this case. If I was RM, that's what I'd want corrected by the DA's office and there has been no correction on that point.

 

[sonjay]

EN said "I got those kids. They were after me and I got them." That coupled with RM trying to weasel out of his buick being recognized by EN are added reasons I believe the one trip scenario.

I agree. I think there was just the one trip. What I'm not sure about is whether, in that one trip, they actually did drive west on Alta, north on Cimarron (or maybe Durango), and then east again on Westcliff. I'm pretty sure that the chase started when they pulled up behind the silver car on Ducharme, then both cars then turned south onto Villa Monterey.

Apparently, they pulled up behind the silver car on Ducharme with both cars pointing westerly. So it's certainly plausible that they came south on Buffalo before turning west onto Ducharme, which means they did indeed come from the north.

Had they been lurking and stalking EN at the park, but he wouldn't leave the park, and so they left and made that loop so that EN would leave the park while they were out of sight?

Or maybe they had been lurking and stalking EN at the park, then went home to get strapped, then made the loop to sneak up on EN?

(Technically, that would be two trips, but it's a not a driving-lesson-and-road-rage trip followed by a car-chase-and-shooting trip; I've not drawn a firm conclusion whether at some point they went home to get a gun. I just don't believe in the driving lessons and road rage.)

Either way, the question remains: Did they make that west-north-east loop, and if so, why?

 

[BellaVita]

Villa Monterrey and Cimarron are the only two roads to their house when coming from the north. People have driving habits. There are three roads into my neighborhood, but I almost always take the same street even if it means passing up another street.

When the alleged road rage happened on Cimarron, it makes zero sense that TM wouldn't drive straight down Cimarron and then turn onto Cherry River in order to get home. Going past the park instead seems the really looong way home.

 

[sonjay]

When the alleged road rage happened on Cimarron, it makes zero sense that TM wouldn't drive straight down Cimarron and then turn onto Cherry River in order to get home. Going past the park instead seems the really looong way home.

And when the alleged driving lesson ended, it makes zero sense that TM wouldn't simply go west on Cherry River to get home. Going south on Villa Monterey to Alta to Durango to Westcliff to Cimarron also seems the really loooong way home.

Nothing about the driving lesson/road rage story makes sense.

As Judge Judy likes to say, “It doesn’t make sense. And if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.”

And so far, I've seen not a shred of evidence that any driving lesson happened that night, nor that any road rage happened that night.

 

[LancelotLink]

And when the alleged driving lesson ended, it makes zero sense that TM wouldn't simply go west on Cherry River to get home. Going south on Villa Monterey to Alta to Durango to Westcliff to Cimarron also seems the really loooong way home.

Nothing about the driving lesson/road rage story makes sense.

As Judge Judy likes to say, “It doesn’t make sense. And if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not true.”

And so far, I've seen not a shred of evidence that any driving lesson happened that night, nor that any road rage happened that night.

I quote this JJism all the time.

 

[sonjay]

I quote this JJism all the time.

Here's a list of things that don't make sense about the driving lesson/road rage story:

There are probably more; this is just what I came up with off the top of my head.

• Driving lesson at school parking lot makes sense. But driving lesson at school parking lot adjacent to drug-dealer hangout park at 11pm for KM's very first ever driving lesson doesn't make sense.
• KM's ever-changing story about what the driving lessons consisted of doesn't make sense. It was the school parking lot, it was parallel parking (for her very first driving lesson!), then it was merging and changing lanes, then it included driving around in the residential area north of the school, then it didn't include any driving in the residential area.
• Route home from driving lesson south on Villa Monterey to Alta, west on Alta to Durango, north on Durango to Westcliff doesn't make sense.
• KM honking the horn from the passenger seat doesn't make sense.
• Road rager getting so upset that he follows TM & KM and makes death threats against TM & KM simply because KM honked doesn't make sense.
• KM's changing story about whether it was a collision or a near-collision doesn't make sense. You would know if you were in an actual collision.
• After alleged road rage, TM driving west on Ducharme to get home doesn't make sense.
• KM reporting that the road rage car contained one white dude and two black dudes, then just one white dude doesn't make sense.
• KM reporting that they got home without the road rager following them, then the road rager pulled into the cul de sac to shoot TM not only doesn't make sense but we know for a fact it didn't happen.
• KM reporting that when they got back to the cul de sac, there was time for her to run inside but her mother was still outside to get shot by the road rager doesn't make sense.
• The police announcing there would be no sketch of the road rager, then two hours later releasing a sketch doesn't make sense.
• Police not looking for the spiky-haired dude in the sketch doesn't make sense.
• After EN was arrested, RM saying "Mommy knew who this was" doesn't make sense, because the road rager wasn't EN.
• The multiple different explanations for why TM went out to hunt for the road rager don't make sense.

I could accept one or two or maybe even three of these things that don't make sense; but asking us to believe this whole pile of things that don't make sense? Nope, not me. I don't believe it for a minute.

Edited to add a couple more:

• TM being road raged but not calling 911 doesn't make sense.
• TM being road raged, making it home safely, and then setting out to look for the road rager doesn't make sense.

 

[BellaVita]

Was the CCTV footage from the corner of Cherry River and Carmel Peak? Is that fact? Because if it is, that would verify timeline of the M's route. Allegedly, the Buick traveled west on Cherry River and south on Carmel. And allegedly this happened twice-once each trip. That is the M's current story. What direction was the Audi travelling? West or East on Cherry River? I suppose that the Buick may not have been captured on the footage depending exactly where/what direction the camera was facing.

 

[PaperDoll]

I do believe you're right. Yep, they knew that EN hung out at the park. So we have to ask, why were they returning home from the north?

I'm still trying to puzzle out those driving routes.

Both KM and BM described a driving route that took them west on Alta. KM said north on Durango, BM said north on Cimarron. Then they both said east on Westcliff.

I think there was one trip, and either KM or BM got the northbound street incorrect. Others think there were two trips, one with KM and one with BM.

But in either case, why would the green car have made that big looping drive to the west, then north, then east, before heading back home?

If you believe the driving lesson story, they made that drive on the way home from the park to their house, but anyone who has looked at a map knows that that was not on their way from the park to their house. And then made a similar (but not identical) trip a few minutes later with BM in the car.

If you don't believe the driving lesson story, then the green car drove a loop to the west, then north, then east again for no apparent reason.

Since they both described such a similar route, I tend to think that the Buick made at least one such trip that night. (Possibly two, if there's any truth to the driving lesson story.) I can't figure out why, or how it would fit into the sequence of events. Possibly it was because they wanted to "sneak" up on EN at the park from a different direction, so that he wouldn't realize it was them. Possibly it didn't happen, but was made up on the spur of the moment to deflect police attention away from the park. Or possibly there was some other reason.

At this point I believe there was a driving lesson and IMO I think TM and KM wanted to drive more so they drove on the main streets (outskirts of their housing track). If the driving lesson proves to be a lie, then I don't know why they would drive that way but they have a right to go out at night, maybe they were going to the store or to get something to eat, we don't know because they didn't say.

If they knew EN hung out at the park they had plenty of opportunity to get him when they were in the school parking lot, there would be no need for a surprise attack IMO. Did they see EN get in the Audi? How did they know EN was in the Audi when they pulled up behind them? :crazy:

 

[sonjay]

At this point I believe there was a driving lesson and IMO I think TM and KM wanted to drive more so they drove on the main streets (outskirts of their housing track).

So why did KM not testify to that effect at the GJ hearing?

If the driving lesson proves to be a lie, then I don't know why they would drive that way but they have a right to go out at night, maybe they were going to the store or to get something to eat, we don't know because they didn't say.

So why didn't KM testify to that effect at the GJ hearing?

KM testified driving lesson at school for 50 minutes, cut short because of scary guy in park, then road rage on their way home. That's it. Nothing about extending the driving lesson to the public roadways, nothing about getting something to eat.

If they knew EN hung out at the park they had plenty of opportunity to get him when they were in the school parking lot, there would be no need for a surprise attack IMO.

EN himself told Mogg he didn't want to leave the park until the green car was gone. He knew they were after him. So yeah, IMO they apparently did need a surprise attack.

Did they see EN get in the Audi? How did they know EN was in the Audi when they pulled up behind them? :crazy:

I don't know. Maybe they saw the Audi pull up and wait for EN, but he wasn't leaving the park and getting into the car until they left, so they left briefly so that he would leave the park.

Why did RM say "Mommy knew who this was," when the road rager wasn't EN? How did she know it was EN, when it wasn't EN until later?

 

[sonjay]

Was the CCTV footage from the corner of Cherry River and Carmel Peak? Is that fact? Because if it is, that would verify timeline of the M's route. Allegedly, the Buick traveled west on Cherry River and south on Carmel. And allegedly this happened twice-once each trip. That is the M's current story. What direction was the Audi travelling? West or East on Cherry River? I suppose that the Buick may not have been captured on the footage depending exactly where/what direction the camera was facing.

We've had no verification from LE on the location of the surveillance footage, but Google street view has most of us convinced that the camera was on a house on the south side of Cherry River, just a tad west of Carmel Peak. The camera itself was facing north. EN's house is on the north side of Cherry River, just at the west of the camera's view (left side of the frame). The park is on the north side of the street, just off-camera to the east (right side of the frame). The silver car was picked up by the camera as it traveled eastbound on Cherry River. Just as the car goes off-camera it appears to be turning right (south) onto Carmel Peak.

The assumption is that the silver car turned south onto Carmel Peak, then west onto Mt. Shasta, where it shot TM. The timestamp is 11:22pm, and 11:22 is when LE reported that they received 911 calls about the shooting.

Based on the driving routes described by both KM and BM, the Buick should not have showed up on that camera at all.

Based on EN's route as described by Mogg, immediately after the shooting on Villa Monterey, the silver car should not have showed up on that camera either.

We do not know if LE has any footage from that camera showing the Buick at all, or there's any footage showing the silver car at any time other than the 11:22 timestamp. We also don't have confirmation that the 11:22 timestamp is correct.

 

[sonjay]

A neighbor went on record about TM and EN and illicit dealings in the park. Again, I go back to the LVDA statement:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nned-19-year-old-said-buying-Xanax-years.html

Outside the hearing district attorney Steven B Wolfson told Daily Mail Online: 'There's been some speculation about drugs and drug use - but that's not the heart of the case.

'The center focus of this case is the interaction between adults which occurred one night - that's the focus. Somebody lost their life and it was stupid.'

He never says that drug use has NO part in this case. If I was RM, that's what I'd want corrected by the DA's office and there has been no correction on that point.

Yes, that's very interesting. Wolfson never denied that the case involves drugs & drug use, only that drugs aren't the "heart" of the case.

Well, IMO, the heart of the case includes whatever led up to the shooting. The shooting happened after and as a result of the Meyerses hunting for and chasing EN. So why did the Meyerses hunt for and chase EN? Did drugs play a role in that decision to hunt for and chase EN? Did TM buy or sell drugs to EN in the park?

Talk about a series of coincidences. There were innocent driving lessons. Then a road rage by some spiky-haired stranger. Then TM & BM set out with BM's gun to hunt for the road rager. And they just coincidentally happen to chase the guy that TM buys drugs from in the park? And TM just coincidentally happens to be shot by the guy that she buys drugs from and consoled and fed and gave money to — while she was chasing a stranger road rager?

If this really happened, I vote it "The Coincidence of the Century." (And yes, it requires capital letters.)

 

[PaperDoll]

So why did KM not testify to that effect at the GJ hearing?

So why didn't KM testify to that effect at the GJ hearing?

KM testified driving lesson at school for 50 minutes, cut short because of scary guy in park, then road rage on their way home. That's it. Nothing about extending the driving lesson to the public roadways, nothing about getting something to eat.



EN himself told Mogg he didn't want to leave the park until the green car was gone. He knew they were after him. So yeah, IMO they apparently did need a surprise attack.



I don't know. Maybe they saw the Audi pull up and wait for EN, but he wasn't leaving the park and getting into the car until they left, so they left briefly so that he would leave the park.

Why did RM say "Mommy knew who this was," when the road rager wasn't EN? How did she know it was EN, when it wasn't EN until later?

At the GJ KM wasn't asked where they were going after the driving lesson she simply said we go straight on Villa Monterey which is the street from the school they would take to get home. To me she isn't hiding anything by not mentioning where they were headed after the driving lesson. The important part is when they were confronted by the "road rager" and IIRC the streets were named on where this happened but apparently LE didn't feel it important to ask further, or if they did it's in the original police report from that night.
And then you leave the parking lot and
where do you then go on your way to?
A. We go straight on Villa Monterey.
Q. Is that the way you would go to go home?
A. Yeah.
Q. Now on the way, after you left the parking
lot and as your mom is driving home, did something
unusual occur with another vehicle?

Later in her testimony she says:
Q. After that occurred did this man get backin his car and drive away?
A. No.
Q. What happened?
A. My mom swerved around him and we took off.
Q. And where did you and your mom take off to?
A. My house.
Q. How far away was it from where this event
took place from where your home was?
A. I don't recall.
Q. How long did it take you to get home?
A. About two minutes.
Q. So fairly close by?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. Is that a yes?
A. Yes.

I believe when RM said mommy knew who this was, it was after EN was arrested and they realized it was their neighbor. I do not think the Buick and the Audi could see who were in the cars that night. How did EN know it was the Buick that was after him? He simply said "someone was out to get me" but he didn't say who. If he knew it was the Meyers he should have said it was them. I don't think the Meyers saw EN get in the Audi either, I think once they left the neighborhood is when EN got in the Audi.

 

[PaperDoll]

Was the CCTV footage from the corner of Cherry River and Carmel Peak? Is that fact? Because if it is, that would verify timeline of the M's route. Allegedly, the Buick traveled west on Cherry River and south on Carmel. And allegedly this happened twice-once each trip. That is the M's current story. What direction was the Audi travelling? West or East on Cherry River? I suppose that the Buick may not have been captured on the footage depending exactly where/what direction the camera was facing.

I would think if the Buick passed EN's house it would be on the CCTV as well but we only have the Audi. This tells me that the Buick never passed EN's house unless that footage hasn't been released to the public.

 

[BellaVita]

I would think if the Buick passed EN's house it would be on the CCTV as well but we only have the Audi. This tells me that the Buick never passed EN's house unless that footage hasn't been released to the public.

I wasn't trying to imply the M's passed his house. Only trying to verify where/what direction the camera was orientated. If, as sonjay says, the camera was able to capture a car (police say it's the silver car) that appeared to be making a right turn onto Carmel, perhaps it was able to capture headlights/car from the opposite direction as well. IDK. But it would interesting to find out.