ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! So a mountain lion CAN eat something like cowboy boots?? I am not familiar with these animals but seems a little difficult to believe.

I think they could eat anything they wanted with their teeth, but like you, I don't think would intentionally eat a boot. Maybe parts of one. I could see other scavengers carrying them a long way off though.
 
Hi, thanks for sharing your experience! So a mountain lion CAN eat something like cowboy boots?? I am not familiar with these animals but seems a little difficult to believe.

No, I didn't say mountain lions can or cannot eat camo boots. I said if buried on the forest floor, as mountains lions do with their prey, they would be virtually impossible to find. Victim's clothing HAS been found in the stomachs of attacking mountain lions.

I also want to mention that mountain lions are SO stealth and quick and silent in their selection and attack of children that they have been known to take a child who IS with adults. In an instant! Just - like - that! It is said they always attack from behind.
 
No, I mountain lion wouldn't eat the cowboy boots. The poster said the cowboy boots and camo jacket would be hard to see if they were buried on the forest floor. However, a mountain lion does not actually bury its prey. It just brushes some leaves and other material over it so it blends in with the surroundings. It is not actually buried in a hole with dirt over it.

I live in the middle of the woods on over 125 acres. Our nearest neighbor is about a mile away. We have over 100 animals (goats, horses, donkeys, chickens, etc.) I am pretty knowledgeable on predators and their behavior. (We have Great Pyrenees livestock guardian dogs to protect me and the farm.)

Yes, they bury their prey under leaves and such on the forest floor which make finding any remains very difficult. These animals are powerful and can leap/pounce 40 feet. They feed off mule deer, elk, whitetail, and occasionally moose. A 25-30 lb child in comparison would, as has been said, just disappear.
 
No, I didn't say mountain lions can or cannot eat camo boots. I said if buried on the forest floor, as mountains lions do with their prey, they would be virtually impossible to find. Victim's clothing HAS been found in the stomachs of attacking mountain lions.

I also want to mention that mountain lions are SO stealth and quick and silent in their selection and attack of children that they have been known to take a child who IS with adults. In an instant! Just - like - that! It is said they always attack from behind.

bbm

But the dogs would have found them, no?
 
bbm

But the dogs would have found them, no?

Wouldn't that depend on where the mountain lion first put his prey down? How far would it carry its prey before burying it under leaves?

IIRC, the searches at one point did a 2 1/2 mile grid search for Deorr. Did the dogs go on this entire search?

If the mountain lion went further than the searchers, then that area has not been touched. Who knows where a mountain lion would go! **Speculation only**
 
Why hasn't the sheriff done daily press releases like we've seen in other cases?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
Wouldn't that depend on where the mountain lion first put his prey down? How far would it carry its prey before burying it under leaves?

IIRC, the searches at one point did a 2 1/2 mile grid search for Deorr. Did the dogs go on this entire search?

If the mountain lion went further than the searchers, then that area has not been touched. Who knows where a mountain lion would go! **Speculation only**

The territorial range of a mountain lion can be anywhere from ten to 370 square miles. Except for some overlap, they do not share their territory with other lions accept a mother with her babies. A mother sends her male young on their way at about 1 - 1 1/2 yrs to establish their own territory. Females stay with the mother longer, until about the age of two years. The speed at which a mountain lion runs would take it quickly far away from where it took the child. Most attacks are from young male lions. Mountain lions sprint at up to 50 mph!
 
Is it likely that a mountain lion would take prey up a steep cliff, up into a tree, or into a den?
 
It's been ages since I have posted. Oddly enough, I learned about little Deorr missing while WE ourselves were tent camping in the Cumberland Mountains of SE Tennessee, not far from the Great Smokey Mountains. I chose this area to get to the mountains of Tennessee without the concern of black bears which are so prevelant in the Great Smokey Mountains and Cherkoee National Forest. We had our seven year old grandson with us. We arrived at our campsite right on the lake late Monday afternoon, July 13th. We had no WIFI so heard no news during our eight day adventure. However, a camping neighbor told me about this missing little boy. She had heard about him missing from a friend who said it was believed Deorr had been abducted. Of course, no one had to tell us about the concerns of abductions and never let our grandson out of our sight, not even for a minute. Of course the main difference was while the Deorr's campsite was remote, ours was full of "strangers" and all kinds of people coming and going as well as an Interstate that ran beside the campground. I had researched areas with black bears and chose,not to tent camp in any area KNOWN to have black bears habitating there.

It wasn't until we arrived back to our cabin, also in TN, that I was able to read about this missing little boy. I started researching the predatory animals that live in Salmon-Challis Forest and their characteristics. It immediately seemed to me that the most likely cause of Deorr's disappearance was a mountain lion. A lion could and most likely WOULD just grab a small (25-30 lb) child from behind and within an instant, kill the little boy. Yes, just that fast! No noise, no nothing! Gone - in an instant. The lion would then carry his prey and bury it. He would return to the prey as long as it remained fresh. In other cases of attack by mountain lions, the victim's clothing was located in the stomach contents upon necropsy. The camo shirt and camo boots would be very hard to find and if buried well enough on the forest floor, even impossible to detect. Although clothing from victims has also been found in the stomach on bears, a bear attack does not seem to fit the scenario of Deorr's disappearance. The territory of a mountain lion is vast and most likely way beyond the search. Mountain lions seem to attack children more often than adults.

This case has just shook me to the core. I can honestly say I doubt I will camp again since research has shown that mountain lions DO live in any and all areas that we would camp. Our cabin here in middle Tennessee is surrounded by trees and lots of cover. Supposedly mountain lions are not in this area but there have been sitings on cameras in our county on numerous occasions. I just NEVER before gave mountain lions a thought! :(
I did research on this scenario too. This is what I thought all along, too, until I heard about his boots being too big for him. A lot of people thought his boots would've been found for sure. I would like to hear other thoughts on this ......again.
 
Is it likely that a mountain lion would take prey up a steep cliff, up into a tree, or into a den?

Mountain lions can jump 15-20 ft straight up into a tree or onto a ledge or wall or cliff from a still position. Just - like - that! Although they usually drag their prey and then bury it, their prey is usually much, much larger than the 25-30 lbs in this case. Mule deer and elk are huge (elk up to 700#). There would be no need to drag in this case. Also, although they usually hunt at dusk and dawn and through the night, in more remote areas they also hunt during the day. Most all attacks on children have been during the day. They often kill more prey than they can eat and hunt and stalk even when not hungry or in need of food.
 
I did research on this scenario too. This is what I thought all along, too, until I heard about his boots being too big for him. A lot of people thought his boots would've been found for sure. I would like to hear other thoughts on this ......again.

I don't think the boots change the scenario. Having raised five children in Oklahoma, kid's boots are ALWAYS too big at that age or you can't get them on their feet and no, they don't fall off, IMO.
 
I've been waiting 2 weeks now to hear Bessie's voice on True Crime radio........still hasn't happened. Maybe this Thursday, the show will resume. Just hearing her speak will clear up a lot of the questions I've got.

I'd love it if Bessie would comment on this case............and all the ill's associated with it. This is Monday night, maybe her and Tricia could discuss this case during the Thursday night show.

It really is a great show, you guys should tune in...... and also.... listen to past shows (archive). It's very informative. I think a lot of members of Websleuths ignore this show as insignificant, but they shouldn't. There is a lot of informative guests on each show. The Jodi Arias guests were especially interesting.

Stream it here live......

THURSDAY NIGHTS 8 PM EST AT www.truecrimeradio.com
 
bbm

But the dogs would have found them, no?
Yes, imo. The dogs would have been able to get his scent immediately where he was taken and since the lion would have to literally drag the child along the ground in some fashion...his scent would have been readily picked up and followed by the dogs (again in my opinion). I don't think it is possible a mountain lion played into this disappearance without leaving a trace.
 
DeOrr's mother said in the 911 call that he had been missing for an hour at the time of the call.

In later reports and media interviews, the time was changed to 10 minutes, and then a family member who wasn't there told media the time missing was only 4 minutes.

I believe the Mom when she said an hour. It was the FIRST account and usually the first account is the most reliable account.

An hour is PLENTY of time for a lot of scenarios to have happened.
I don't know which sources you're referencing, but from what I've read, an hour, 10 minutes, and four minutes refer to different events.


One hour = Duration he was missing at the time mom reached 911 at 2:35.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/


10-15 minutes = Length of time parents were gone

"His parents said they left the child with his great-grandfather and when they returned 10 to 15 minutes later..."
http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/p...-is-still-alive-after-getting-lost-a-week-ago


4 minutes = Length of time when no one had eyes on him.

"There's a four-minute window where no one had an eye on him," says Kunz, 70."
http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

(I interpreted the last item to mean that after parents departed, gff and/or friend were aware of little DK's presence with the exception of a four minute span when their attention was turned away. JMO)
 
I want to add in reference to the boots. Mountain lions have efficient premolars that can slice through bone and hide. So, if the boots were leather (they may have been cloth or canvas or some other material), as small as they were, could have easily been ingested by the lion.
 
Thanks ILOKAL for the information on Mountain Lions at post #31. I had gone to do research, however, you are posting much more informative facts than I found.

From the info I read on several sites, my doubts were beginning to fade on a mountain lion. Since they do their hunting from dusk to dawn that wouldn't fit. I didn't read they usually attack children in the day.

One thing that puzzles me is would the searchers not see the footprints of a mountain lion on their first trek into each new grid? Do not know what the earth is made up of in that part of the country.
 
Yes, imo. The dogs would have been able to get his scent immediately where he was taken and since the lion would have to literally drag the child along the ground in some fashion...his scent would have been readily picked up and followed by the dogs (again in my opinion). I don't think it is possible a mountain lion played into this disappearance without leaving a trace.

Actually, there more than likely would be no trace. Cougars only drag their prey because it is large. In the case of 25-30 lbs, dragging would not be necessary. The lion would have pounced, bit, and carried, in this case, IMO.
 
I don't know which sources you're referencing, but from what I've read, an hour, 10 minutes, and four minutes refer to different events.


One hour = Duration he was missing at the time mom reached 911 at 2:35.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

Not sure about this one though. In the 911 call, the mom states that he has been missing for an hour. During the interview, the father states that after 20 minutes of searching for little DeOrr they called 911.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
168
Guests online
4,137
Total visitors
4,305

Forum statistics

Threads
592,483
Messages
17,969,509
Members
228,782
Latest member
ChasF419
Back
Top