Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #62 ~ the appeal~

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Marfa Lights said:
Thought you might want to read about the Pistorius family's relief that Oscar was out re-visiting the places that meant so much to Reeva and him...

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Grieving-Oscar-hits-the-town-20150430
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From the article you linked:

"He has made a special effort recently to see his friends and to establish relationships with Reeva’s friends and family. Last Saturday was a special occasion to see all of them together,” Arnold said." Brazen

"Pistorius was reportedly very upset last week over remarks made about Steenkamp on social media by women calling themselves the Pistorians – ardent supporters of the athlete." Quite clever, trying to keep the Pistorians on message as they became a liability that would further damage him, in PR terms.
 
cottonweaver said:
And as far as I remember one of the tow truck "businessmen" was previously up for attempted murder , ie. one of Oscar's friends, just to be clear.
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That sheds no light on pistorius 's guilt or innocence Re murder. It also doesn't add much to the topic of reports of poor behaviour / flirting etc
 
cottonweaver said:
Whilst I definitely don’t want to focus on pointless libel issues I must pick you up on your post above.

The point, as you know of my orig post was about your unrealistic suggestion of opportunities for a million plus libel actions globally (“Sue the world” sung to the LiveAid theme tune!)

Anyway, glad you read some Greenland who does much to dispel the naivete amongst a few : “……law and justice are not necessarily the same thing.”

Of course JG does not use one-liners and say “he’s a murderer’ but he’s quite unequivocal across many passages in the transcript.

So let’s go back to him and see what he says:
“You know, let me say to you, Lisa, that I as a judge... I would have rejected the whole of Oscar's defense. I think that for any number of reasons especially on critical issues, I would have said to Oscar: "You have not taken this court in good confidence. All the court can find is that you pointed a gun knowing you're pointing at a human being and you pulled the trigger four times in to the human being in a hail of bullets. That's all this court can safely accept, the rest the court is still confused about. So I am not going to accept your version as to why you killed her. And that being the case, there isn't a noble excuse that you have advanced for this killing. You are guilty of murder."

“Yes, my supposition on it, and I put it no higher than that, is that this was the terrible culmination of a domestic fight that they had, emotive fight. It fits entirely with Oscar's profile.”
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I'm not comfortable with JG's approach here, he is generalizing and over simplifying and ultimately throwing out the baby with the bath water.

It is not safe to assume that if an accused lies that it is a reliable indicator of guilt. Many have assumed that OP has lied in order to escape a murder charge. They say "look at him he lies about the gun charges, the ammo charge he just won't take responsibility" Maybe that's true and if it is then it's impossible to escape the conclusion that he could equally well be innocent of murder and lied to escape a CH conviction.

JG knows this perfectly well, in fact he mentioned the Timothy Evans/Christie trials himself during one of his Carte Blanche appearances to illustrate why and how the law now allows for an accused lying under oath.

To simply say "the rest the court is still confused about" cannot be right. There was plenty of evidence which the court could and did accept and much which was presented and could and was found to be in reasonable doubt. That is not confusion.
 
Marfa Lights said:
Read again... the article described two separate instances of Oscar's sterling behavior while out on bail. Drunken altercation with Jared Mortimer at VIP Room in Sandton was case #1; hitting on Reeve look-alike, Kesiah Frank, at a private party was a separate incident.

Does anyone think he will be content reading his bible and doing charitable works for the next 4 years and 2 months?


http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...double-just-52-days-after-shooting-girlfriend
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:lookingitup::innocent:

Yes, absolutely of course. :laugh: me -------> :giggle:
 
Marfa Lights said:
Thought you might want to read about the Pistorius family's relief that Oscar was out re-visiting the places that meant so much to Reeva and him...

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/Grieving-Oscar-hits-the-town-20150430
Click to expand...

Same link:

“It’s still very difficult for him. He has not been able to process the incident yet. He burst into tears yesterday again. He is a wreck.” - Probably uncle Arnie had asked an uncomfortable question or so ..........
 
Marfa Lights said:
Read again... the article described two separate instances of Oscar's sterling behavior while out on bail. Drunken altercation with Jared Mortimer at VIP Room in Sandton was case #1; hitting on Reeve look-alike, Kesiah Frank, at a private party was a separate incident.

Does anyone think he will be content reading his bible and doing charitable works for the next 4 years and 2 months?


http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...double-just-52-days-after-shooting-girlfriend
Click to expand...

I don't really see why he should conform to some posters' ideas of how to behave in a situation none of us has any experience of. Besides, nothing he does will ever be seen in a positive light by posters on here. If he does something nice, it'll be 'he's doing it for the publicity', if someone picks a fight with him it'll be 'he's the one with the temper so he must have caused it - lock him up!'. If he finds a job: 'he should be paying every penny to Reeva's family or charity' etc. It's very predictable. Every tiny bit of news seems just an excuse to bash OP.

All the comments about his uncle seem quite misplaced - Arnold sounds as though he and his family are doing their best to support someone they love and who they don't believe is guilty. I hope I'd do the same in that situation. They had the media asking questions and wanting news and so they gave it. Just because public opinion has turned against OP doesn't mean his family are wrong to support him or to do so publicly.
 
GR_Turner said:
I don't really see why he should conform to some posters' ideas of how to behave in a situation none of us has any experience of. Besides, nothing he does will ever be seen in a positive light by posters on here. If he does something nice, it'll be 'he's doing it for the publicity', if someone picks a fight with him it'll be 'he's the one with the temper so he must have caused it - lock him up!'. If he finds a job: 'he should be paying every penny to Reeva's family or charity' etc. It's very predictable. Every tiny bit of news seems just an excuse to bash OP.

All the comments about his uncle seem quite misplaced - Arnold sounds as though he and his family are doing their best to support someone they love and who they don't believe is guilty. I hope I'd do the same in that situation. They had the media asking questions and wanting news and so they gave it. Just because public opinion has turned against OP doesn't mean his family are wrong to support him or to do so publicly.
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Not at all IMO. Going up to RS`s parents on the first day of court and saying `We are trying to save two lives here` was the first of a number of missteps on his part. The `goodness destroying evil` tweet was another example, along with making claims that he wanted to see OP back in the Olympics when the trial was still ongoing. There is always the `No comment` option.

Below is my reply to you Trotterly re the Gina Myers incident. We had a huge thunderstorm and no internet for 36 or so hours. I saved it when the internet went off and have now re-pasted it back in.

Sorry Trotterly but no matter what stress you are under you don`t make a statement like that to a close friend of the deceased who is in court to see what she considers to be justice done in her friend`s name and to support the family of that friend. Not unless you are a creep who is unable to control your bitterness and self-pity that is. I mean think about what it is claimed he said - `How do you sleep at night`, when all she was doing was attending court.

Gina Myers was there for her friend and if OP really loved Reeva he should and would have respected that. He may have felt that the police and the court and the wider public should have just believed his story rather than `making him put his life on hold` but he has no right to expect her family and friends to do so. Very different attitude to the public apology he gave to her family from the dock though isn`t it?

As it is, I am glad that big boofhead turned up the next day to sit with the Myers girls.
 
Trotterly said:
A libellous comment now and I predict, still so after the appeal.
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......i completely missed this....to put the record straight regarding libel...

"The distinction between murder and manslaughter is somewhat more
subtle than the mere presence or absence of intention. If the
defendant showed extreme disregard for the fact that his act was
liable to result in death or serious injury, the intent to perform the
act (without intent to kill) is sufficient to support a charge of
murder. This type of murder is often called "depraved heart" murder.
If you search the web for "depraved heart," you will find lots of
references."

The difference in this case being that it wasn't the heart that was depraved .........just looking forward to the appeal....
 
lithgow1 said:
Thank you for that. Interesting though that she mentions that Reeva`s family have forgiven Pistorius but neglects to mention that her mother said they did not believe 10 months in prison was long enough. Biased media works both ways aftermath and the article you posted is a perfect example.
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I agree it works both ways. It just hasn't appeared to have worked both ways in an equal, balanced way in this case. (IMO)
 
GR_Turner said:
I don't really see why he should conform to some posters' ideas of how to behave in a situation none of us has any experience of. Besides, nothing he does will ever be seen in a positive light by posters on here. If he does something nice, it'll be 'he's doing it for the publicity', if someone picks a fight with him it'll be 'he's the one with the temper so he must have caused it - lock him up!'. If he finds a job: 'he should be paying every penny to Reeva's family or charity' etc. It's very predictable. Every tiny bit of news seems just an excuse to bash OP.

All the comments about his uncle seem quite misplaced - Arnold sounds as though he and his family are doing their best to support someone they love and who they don't believe is guilty. I hope I'd do the same in that situation. They had the media asking questions and wanting news and so they gave it. Just because public opinion has turned against OP doesn't mean his family are wrong to support him or to do so publicly.
Click to expand...

So it's appropriate behavior for someone on trial for murder to be out clubbing, getting in drunken brawls, and hitting on women who just happen to bear an uncanny resemblance to the girlfriend he just shot and killed 52 days earlier?? Even his own family had to issue a statement about his "self-harming" behavior.

His family's support may seem admirable to you, and to a certain degree it is, but when it extends to evidence tampering in a murder case (Titanium Hulk wiping phone evidence) lines are crossed. "Support" becomes closer to aiding and abetting. I don't envy any family in this situation though-- it must be tricky to navigate between group denial/enabling and providing support/rehabilitation assistance for a family member convicted of a crime.
 
Marfa Lights said:
and hitting on women who just happen to bear an uncanny resemblance to the girlfriend
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This could of been another attempt at manipulating the media.......eg..... oh poor Oscar is missing his girlfriend so much he is unconsciously seeking her in others....blah blah
 
Marfa Lights said:
So it's appropriate behavior for someone on trial for murder to be out clubbing, getting in drunken brawls, and hitting on women who just happen to bear an uncanny resemblance to the girlfriend he just shot and killed 52 days earlier?? Even his own family had to issue a statement about his "self-harming" behavior.

His family's support may seem admirable to you, and to a certain degree it is, but when it extends to evidence tampering in a murder case (Titanium Hulk wiping phone evidence) lines are crossed. "Support" becomes closer to aiding and abetting. I don't envy any family in this situation though-- it must be tricky to navigate between group denial/enabling and providing support/rehabilitation assistance for a family member convicted of a crime.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth. I agree that the clubbing and drinking etc is inappropriate. But inappropriate behaviour is not solely an indication of guilt of murder, or lacking remorse etc. It could just as easily be an indication of guilt of culp hom, or not coping with the shame/ grief/ horror etc

The family have been placed in a horrible position by pistorius 's actions as you said. I agree that the phone wiping stuff looks dubious, but there is limited info about what happened because it wasn't pursued, so it's hard to decide whether it was deliberate or not.
 
Colin de France said:
This could of been another attempt at manipulating the media.......eg..... oh poor Oscar is missing his girlfriend so much he is unconsciously seeking her in others....blah blah
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Naah, I just think it was Oscar staying true to type. Lose one, plug in another FHM blonde model/law graduate.
Actually, I think it probably indicates some kind of very disturbing mental issues. Who the hell would do that?
 
aftermath said:
I agree that the phone wiping stuff looks dubious, but there is limited info about what happened because it wasn't pursued, so it's hard to decide whether it was deliberate or not.
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....more than dubious....interfering with a criminal investigation, not only that but the action of sneaking the phone out from the appartment was deliberate ....... and for a reason...
 
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