CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #4

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Mindmatters said:
As I see it, if you won't follow any American laws that are in conflict with Sharia law it is probably best to find a place that supports the laws you are willing to adhere to.
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Snipped for focus

So would you agree with this?

"As I see it, if you won't follow any American laws that are in conflict with Christian law it is probably best to find a place that supports the laws you are willing to adhere to."

If not, what is the difference as you see it?
 
IzzyBlanche said:
BBM for focus

Keep in mind, these were all BEFORE SB:



http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...set-up-outside-islamic-center-of-irving.html/



http://www.kvue.com/story/news/crim...ore-apart-dumped-feces-quran-mosque/75884812/



I dunno, I think with incidents like these taking place even before SB, our President has a legitimate concern regarding anti-Muslim hysteria.
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The people who did this should be ashamed. And prosecuted.

This is not my America. :(


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Montjoy said:
Who said that there SHOULD be a backlash? Not me.

And I'm not about to get into the different crimes committed by different religious groups. It's been established time and again that a large number of mass shootings in the US have been committed by people who self-identify as Protestant, and often do so with religious motives. But we don't brand a whole religion based on what a relative minority of violent people do when Christians are involved -- so I'm not sure why it would be appropriate to do so with other religious groups.
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A large number of Protestants commit murder for religious purposes?

We have just seen Islamic extremists take down a Russian airliner, attack a mall in Mumbai, killing women and children, killing hundreds of college students in Paris, and co-workers at a Christmas party in California.

Have the Protestant Religious extremists beheaded anyone in the name of Jesus lately?
 
katydid23 said:
A large number of Protestants commit murder for religious purposes?

We have just seen Islamic extremists take down a Russian airliner, attack a mall in Mumbai, killing women and children, killing hundreds of college students in Paris, and co-workers at a Christmas party in California.

Have the Protestant Religious extremists beheaded anyone in the name of Jesus lately?
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Re: the part of Montjoy's post that you bolded. The qualifier is "in the US".

So the Russian airliner, the mall in Mumbai, and Paris don't count in this equation.

Apples to oranges.
 
katydid23 said:
It is not about being different. Hindus are different. Bahais are different. Jehovah witnesses are different. Sikhs are different.

But they do not get nearly the hate nor the backlash. Maybe because they do not have thousands of followers who threaten to behead people who do not follow their beliefs.
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Or fly airplanes into buildings.People are going to have hate,it is in our nature.Trying to force people to be politically correct is bullying.You can never erase racism.
 
What do you think the terrorists were doing after they left the scene of the attack and went home? Maybe they fixed a sandwich and caught up on the news (television coverage, Internet news, or police scanner.) If they heard the pipe bombs didn't work they may have decided to leave their home and reengage head to head with the police.
 
IzzyBlanche said:
BBM for focus

Keep in mind, these were all BEFORE SB:



http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...set-up-outside-islamic-center-of-irving.html/



http://www.kvue.com/story/news/crim...ore-apart-dumped-feces-quran-mosque/75884812/



I dunno, I think with incidents like these taking place even before SB, our President has a legitimate concern regarding anti-Muslim hysteria.
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Concern is fine; but his tangible fear and hysteria about the potential expression of islamaphobia was in no way warranted; Particularly by a man in his position, charged with his level of responsibility to all--a calm, reasoned and non-catastrophic approach to any crisis is far more productive in times of stress than hysteria.

And when you add in Lynch's barely veiled threats that she will charge people with hate crimes while trampling on the right to freedom of speech, it all came across as rather frantic, and an overt attempt to intimidate Americans as a whole while protecting only Muslims.
 
  • A friend of one of the shooters entered a mental hospital after the attacks and has been interviewed by authorities while investigators looked into whether he provided two of the weapons recovered after the massacre.
FBI officials have said that Farook had “some contact” with someone known to the FBI in this country and also reached out digitally to at least two members of foreign terror groups, including one in Somalia, said the official who was unauthorized to speak publicly.
The U.S. State Department said Monday that Hassan turned himself in to authorities in Somalia, where had been hiding.

Malik, 29, was born to a politically influential family in Pakistan's southern Punjab province, moved to Saudi Arabia as a child and returned to Pakistan to begin studying pharmacology in 2007.


Malik became deeply religious during college and began posting extremist messages on Facebook after arriving in the United States.
In the days before the Garland, Tex., attack in May, one of the two radicalized assailants was in computer contact with Miski and was told that, “It was time for the brothers in the #US to do their part” following the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris.

FBI agents apparently lost track of their digital conversation when they “went dark” and continued to communicate using encrypted devices.

Malik, 29, was born to a politically influential family in Pakistan's southern Punjab province,

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html
 
cuffem said:
Or fly airplanes into buildings.People are going to have hate,it is in our nature.Trying to force people to be politically correct is bullying.You can never erase racism.
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You can unlearn it but it's hard work. Most people aren't up for it. It's easier that way.



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IzzyBlanche said:
Re: the part of Montjoy's post that you bolded. The qualifier is "in the US".

So the Russian airliner, the mall in Mumbai, and Paris don't count in this equation.

Apples to oranges.
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So? Does it matter if their victims were in Paris or Mumbai or NYC? What is the difference?
 
Han said:
What do you think the terrorists were doing after they left the scene of the attack and went home? Maybe they fixed a sandwich and caught up on the news (television coverage, Internet news, or police scanner.) If they heard the pipe bombs didn't work they may have decided to leave their home and reengage head to head with the police.
Click to expand...

I want to know this too. Whatever they did they were stupid about it, which is just fine, but wth were they thinking? Maybe they realized the jig was up and they wanted to go out like that?


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katydid23 said:
It goes both ways. What about the Southern Poverty Law Centers Report on The Nation of Islam and the hate portrayed by Louis Farrakhan?


The Nation of Islam has a black separatist agenda: Its program states that blacks should be able to form their own nation. It also holds that blacks should be made exempt from taxation until they have achieved equal justice under the law and that interracial marriage and "race mixing" should be "prohibited." These views are based on religious precepts created by Elijah Muhammad and preached by Farrakhan.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
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What does this have to do with the current discussion?
 
araid1.jpg



A broken garage and window are seen Dec. 5, 2015, after law enforcement officials raided the Riverside, California, home of Enrique Marquez, who lived next door to an old address of shooter Syed Farook. Jabin Botsford/the Washington Post via Getty Images

liscsed security guard

http://www.ibtimes.com/who-enrique-...-bernardino-attack-purchased-southern-2214824
 
CARIIS said:
  • A friend of one of the shooters entered a mental hospital after the attacks and has been interviewed by authorities while investigators looked into whether he provided two of the weapons recovered after the massacre.
FBI officials have said that Farook had “some contact” with someone known to the FBI in this country and also reached out digitally to at least two members of foreign terror groups, including one in Somalia, said the official who was unauthorized to speak publicly.
The U.S. State Department said Monday that Hassan turned himself in to authorities in Somalia, where had been hiding.

Malik, 29, was born to a politically influential family in Pakistan's southern Punjab province, moved to Saudi Arabia as a child and returned to Pakistan to begin studying pharmacology in 2007.


Malik became deeply religious during college and began posting extremist messages on Facebook after arriving in the United States.
In the days before the Garland, Tex., attack in May, one of the two radicalized assailants was in computer contact with Miski and was told that, “It was time for the brothers in the #US to do their part” following the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris.

FBI agents apparently lost track of their digital conversation when they “went dark” and continued to communicate using encrypted devices.

Malik, 29, was born to a politically influential family in Pakistan's southern Punjab province,

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html
Click to expand...

From the story:
"President Obama said in a Sunday evening address that no evidence pointed to the two being part of a "broader conspiracy here at home."

It would be easier if they were, imo. Find the leader or a member and go from there.


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katydid23 said:
So? Does it matter if their victims were in Paris or Mumbai or NYC? What is the difference?
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Do you really not see that you were arguing with Montjoy's statement, which was specifically about attacks in the United States, with statements about attacks outside the United States?
 
Mindmatters said:
Yes, she did. All news agencies (ABC, CNN, FOX, etc.) have her speech--at least to some degree or another
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Thanks. I did a google search for Loretta Lynch speech and so many results came up and it's past my bedtime.

If you or anyone else happen to have a link to the transcript or full video, I'd like to read or watch the whole thing for myself, not just watch the snippets that came up as a result of my search.

Thanks again.
 
katydid23 said:
And many here in the USA find it abhorrent, that people would immigrate here, and then want to change our legal system to fit THEIR religious precepts. I would not move to Dubai and expect them to follow Western concepts and religious protocol. I would willingly comply with their cultural beliefs and laws.
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So if you moved to another country with vastly different customs, you would force yourself somehow to believe exactly what everyone around you does? Surely you can see how that's impossible, unless you're brainwashed or something. You may choose to behave in accordance with local custom, which would be wise if it's the law, but it may be at odds with what you think is right. Do you think Muslims should eat bacon and drink beer, and believe it's right, just because they live in America? I don't think you do, but I've seen loads of comments like that on social media. Look, I think everyone has to follow the law, but they can believe whatever they want even if it's contrary to the law. The line is crossed if people promote or commit illegal acts. It's not uncommon for an Australian to advocate for the death penalty, which is fine. It's not fine if they go an execute someone or encourage others to. So I don't really care if a radical Muslim thinks unbelievers should be beheaded. Probably wouldn't be mates with them, but I do care if they take steps to make it happen or promote it.
 
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