CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #4

[Montjoy]

Or fly airplanes into buildings.

rsbm

No group has a monopoly on any form of terrorism --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack

 

[Mindmatters]

Who is doing this and not being charged? What do you consider steps?

I think the people who talk about turning the country into a Christian theocracy (like Ted Cruz) are talking about destroying America but until they take steps I consider it free speech.

So, what to do? I was discussing a "constitutional lawyer" who was having an intellectual discussion about Treason and the actions of Americans who engage in RIT, for the life of me I'm not sure how you got here ^BBM^.

BlueSneakers, I have nothing but respect for your right to your own opinion. However, facts are another matter. I have ZERO idea why you are attributing to me things that are absolutely not factual --I did not post anything related to Ted Cruz so please do not inaccurately state or attribute such actions to me. Also, if you go back and read all of my posts on this thread you will find that I have never discussed nor stated support for any Religion or religious based theories either way. Period.

So with all due respect I ask that you do not drag me into any conversation about this topic, as I am here to discuss Islamic Terrorism and it's impact on America and democratic countries. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

 

[katydid23]

Interesting article:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-muslims-struggle-condemn-extremism-35607239

For Asra Nomani, an advocate of Islamic reform and author of "Standing Alone: An American Woman's Struggle for the Soul of Islam," the deeper problem is an unwillingness of American Muslims to truly confront extremism in the religion. Resistance to issuing the condemnations, she said, is a sign of denial about what's wrong with how the religion is being interpreted.

"I disagree with that whole logic of people who say we don't need to apologize and we don't need to condemn it," Nomani said. "We're not owning up to the problem when we say: 'This isn't my Islam. I didn't pull the trigger. I don't believe in extremist ideas.' I think we're setting ourselves up for this animosity that comes our way."

 

[CARIIS]

interesting and odd

CBS when he was at the shooting range his rifle started smoking and he wenat inside and asked if that was normal > the clerk said it seemed the rifle was new (?) which is why it smoled .

 

[SophieRose]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bernardino-attack-fbi-questions-alleged-assault-style/story?id=35626957

An individual associated with a local mosque, who asked not to be named, said Marquez started coming there three or four years ago, after he had converted to Islam. The person said Marquez was shy and polite, but did not seem that bright. Two members of Farook’s family, but not Syed Farook, attended the same mosque, the person said.

 

[Mindmatters]

Thanks. I did a google search for Loretta Lynch speech and so many results came up and it's past my bedtime.

If you or anyone else happen to have a link to the transcript or full video, I'd like to read or watch the whole thing for myself, not just watch the snippets that came up as a result of my search.

Thanks again.

I'll go see if I have it in my history.

 

[bluesneakers]

So, what to do? I was discussing a "constitutional lawyer" who was having an intellectual discussion about Treason and the actions of Americans who engage in RIT, for the life of me I'm not sure how you got here ^BBM^.

BlueSneakers, I have nothing but respect for your right to your own opinion. However, facts are another matter. I have ZERO idea why you are attributing to me things that are absolutely not factual --I did not post anything related to Ted Cruz so please do not inaccurately state or attribute such actions to me. Also, if you go back and read all of my posts on this thread you will find that I have never discussed nor stated support for any Religion or religious based theories either way. Period.

So with all due respect I ask that you do not drag me into any conversation about this topic, as I am here to discuss Islamic Terrorism and it's impact on America and democratic countries. Thanks in advance for your understanding.

I was simply asking for an example of what people are saying and doing that you consider treason and what you consider "steps." I gave an example to help illustrate what I was asking you. If you don't want to answer it's really nbd.


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[katydid23]

So if you moved to another country with vastly different customs, you would force yourself somehow to believe exactly what everyone around you does? Surely you can see how that's impossible, unless you're brainwashed or something. You may choose to behave in accordance with local custom, which would be wise if it's the law, but it may be at odds with what you think is right. Do you think Muslims should eat bacon and drink beer, and believe it's right, just because they live in America? I don't think you do, but I've seen loads of comments like that on social media. Look, I think everyone has to follow the law, but they can believe whatever they want even if it's contrary to the law. The line is crossed if people promote or commit illegal acts. It's not uncommon for an Australian to advocate for the death penalty, which is fine. It's not fine if they go an execute someone or encourage others to. So I don't really care if a radical Muslim thinks unbelievers should be beheaded. Probably wouldn't be mates with them, but I do care if they take steps to make it happen or promote it.

Of course they shouldnt eat bacon or drink beer. But neither should they try to prevent others here from choosing to do so. When they take jobs as cashiers and cab drivers, then deny doing the job if the customer wants to buy bacon, or carry a 6 pack home in a taxi, that is wrong, imo.

Are you serious when you say that you don't care if radical Muslims think unbelievers should be beheaded? That does not concern you?

I do not think anyone should move to another country and then expect that country to CHANGE to fit their beliefs. If you do not like their 'vastly different customs' then do not move there.

 

[DexterMorgan]

No one helped Assad when the protest first started. They all wanted him to be taken out like Gadalphi. Jmo.

The United States even helped arm the opposition. This lead to an open window for isis to go to Syria and confuse things. Now everyone is displaced and isis has a good portion.

But after Paris; Now people want to help Assad clean up the war against terrorist/ isis in his country.

Btw. I don't think we are smart enough to know who to supply guns to when it comes to rebels. Especially since the rebels could have been apart of Isis from the beginning. Jmo.

 

[Mindmatters]

For Izzy--this is what I have on the AG Lynch speech (and if you were wondering-- for me personally, no, it doesn't matter if she took back what she originally said)...


[video=youtube;qBkPcRSi03o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBkPcRSi03o"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBkPcRSi03o[/video]

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/loretta-lynch-hate-speech-muslim-justice-department/2015/12/07/id/704897/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2015/12/lynch-recalibrates-message-on-hateful-speech-216488

 

[bluesneakers]

No one helped Assad when the protest first started. They all wanted him to be taken out like Gadalphi. Jmo.

The United States even helped arm the opposition. This lead to an open window for isis to go to Syria and confuse things. Now everyone is displaced and isis has a good portion.

But after Paris; Now people want to help Assad clean up the war against terrorist/ isis in his country.

Btw. I don't think we are smart enough to know who to supply guns to when it comes to rebels. Especially since the rebels could have been apart of Isis from the beginning. Jmo.

I don't think we are either. That usually backfires.

So what's next Dex?


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[katydid23]

What does this have to do with the current discussion?

People were posting specific examples of Muslims who were reportedly being harassed for being Muslim. I was pointing out that the Nation of Islam harasses people for not being Muslim. So, in my opinion, it goes both ways. It feeds off of each other in a vicious cycle.

 

[Brightbird]

Of course they shouldnt eat bacon or drink beer. But neither should they try to prevent others here from choosing to do so. When they take jobs as cashiers and cab drivers, then deny doing the job if the customer wants to buy bacon, or carry a 6 pack home in a taxi, that is wrong, imo.

Are you serious when you say that you don't care if radical Muslims think unbelievers should be beheaded? That does not concern you?

I do not think anyone should move to another country and then expect that country to CHANGE to fit their beliefs. If you do not like their 'vastly different customs' then do not move there.

I agree that they shouldn't try and prevent anyone from doing anything. Same goes for any group in society. However, I see that as very different from having a belief or a wish that sharia law is dominant. It's simply not going to become reality (and I don't buy into paranoid theories). Yeah, I don't really care what any fundamentalist religious person believes. I only care if they break the law trying to make it happen.

 

[Mindmatters]

I was simply asking for an example of what people are saying and doing that you consider treason and what you consider "steps." I gave an example to help illustrate what I was asking you. If you don't want to answer it's really nbd.


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<modsnip> It was not ME who suggested charging/considering terrorist acts by American citizens or enumerating steps necessary to reach any threshold, it was a constitutional lawyer, Judge Andrew Napolitano.

Perhaps this will help in your understanding...https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115; http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/3/essays/119/treason

Excerpt: "If any person or persons, owing allegiance to the United States of America, shall levy war against them, or shall adhere to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States, or elsewhere,...."

 

[DexterMorgan]

People were posting specific examples of Muslims who were reportedly being harassed for being Muslim. I was pointing out that the Nation of Islam harasses people for not being Muslim. So, in my opinion, it goes both ways. It feeds off of each other in a vicious cycle.

But the nation had a different cause in a different time at their height. And eventually Malcolm X realized that Elijah Mohammed had hypocritical ways as well.

So he told people to believe in God and not the Honorable Elijah Mohammed.

But they were not that radical vs the klan that was also present during that main era.

Then like a lot of organizations. It just became a money grab to get as much as possible from members and whatever. But once the crack era hit in the 80s. The whole movement was no where near as effective. Jmo.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree that they shouldn't try and prevent anyone from doing anything. Same goes for any group in society. However, I see that as very different from having a belief or a wish that sharia law is dominant. It's simply not going to become reality (and I don't buy into paranoid theories). Yeah, I don't really care what any fundamentalist religious person believes. I only care if they break the law trying to make it happen.

And there's a huge difference between wishing for Sharia law (I agree with you it's never going to happen) and walking into a room and murdering 20 people. These two didn't turn into terrorists because pork was served at the meeting.


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[katydid23]

I agree that they shouldn't try and prevent anyone from doing anything. Same goes for any group in society. However, I see that as very different from having a belief or a wish that sharia law is dominant. It's simply not going to become reality (and I don't buy into paranoid theories). Yeah, I don't really care what any fundamentalist religious person believes. I only care if they break the law trying to make it happen.

It is already happening in many cities in the UK. That is not paranoia, it is factual. There are links upthread describing the current situation.

I do have a problem with a religion that believes non-believers should be beheaded. I have a real problem with that.

 

[bluesneakers]

It is already happening in many cities in the UK. That is not paranoia, it is factual. There are links upthread describing the current situation.

I do have a problem with a religion that believes non-believers should be beheaded. I have a real problem with that.

I hope you understand there is a difference between the Muslim religion and terrorists. Muslims don't think non-believers should be beheaded. ISIS et al are NOT a religion.


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[DexterMorgan]

It is already happening in many cities in the UK. That is not paranoia, it is factual. There are links upthread describing the current situation.

I do have a problem with a religion that believes non-believers should be beheaded. I have a real problem with that.

Agree. Why didn't the wife stay with her rich family in Saudi Arabia. Or help the muslims in Pakistan.

Why come here to kill so called infidels when you have people stoning women for being raped over there.

Good point.

 

[katydid23]

Do you really not see that you were arguing with Montjoy's statement, which was specifically about attacks in the United States, with statements about attacks outside the United States?

He can limit it to the US if he likes. I was speaking globally because that is what Isis is all about.