CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[Woodland]

Excerpts from trial about the blood.
A = answer. Q= question

A.....the staining on the seats and other parts of the vehicle were dry. However, the blood after I had removed the section of the carpet, the blood was still liquid and pooled at the bottom of the carpet
Q.....so the surface area was dry, but underneath was wet?
A..... that's correct

A.....there was evidence of blood on the carpet, on the floor behind the driver's seat and passenger seat from door to door. The predominant pooling was on the floor behind the driver's seat.

A.....that is correct. We have no tests to determine whether blood is from an individual, either post or ante-mortem, that is before or after death

Q.....you estimate in the first page of your report that approx 42 milliliters of blood would be required to produce these stains
A.....yes that's correct. 42 milliliters would work out to one fifth and one sixth of a cup
A.....a unit of pint that we give at the red Cross I believe is 450 milliliters
A.....I should point out this estimate is based selected stains on the carpet. It does not include a lot of smearing present on the passenger side of the carpet, the smearing present on the door piller or the door sill or the front of the seat and does not include any of the pooled stains that remained on the floor after the carpet was removed
A.....the amount of blood in the smears would be relatively small. I could not offer an opinion as to how much blood remained in the vehicle after the carpet was removed

Q....so the jury is aware, can your blood keep clotting after you are dead
A....no blood does not clot after death
Q....and there was no evidence of blood clotting here
A....no evidence, that's right

Hope this helps

BBM

I'm only assuming that when blood is taken from a live individual intravenously, there is no clotting?

This case really needs that sister to sister DNA comparison - jmo.

 

[eyesonly]

BBM

I'm only assuming that when blood is taken from a live individual intravenously, there is no clotting?

This case really needs that sister to sister DNA comparison - jmo.

I read up on clotting and I would say blood taken intravenously would not show any signs of clotting. Clotting seems to happen in relation to a wound area.
As for the sister DNA comparison, didn't I post somewhere that sister CB gave blood for a DNA sample. Maybe not, I'll check some testimonies again

 

[Woodland]

I read up on clotting and I would say blood taken intravenously would not show any signs of clotting. Clotting seems to happen in relation to a wound area.
As for the sister DNA comparison, didn't I post somewhere that sister CB gave blood for a DNA sample. Maybe not, I'll check some testimonies again

Gave your statement a little time eyes - I don't recall anything being posted on CB offering up a sample for a DNA profile.

It makes no sense that she did, given that she was asked in court if she had ever bled in the back of her sisters vehicle.

Why would that be asked of CB if her profile was available? Since when does the Crown, when they have a DNA sample, start putting family members on the stand to ask them about their previous bleeding events?

A DNA sample from CB would show she was not the donor of the blood in the rear of her sisters vehicle. It would show similarities, but would be distinct from the blood found in the rear of the vehicle.

There really is no out here on that aspect, that I can see.

 

[eyesonly]

Gave your statement a little time eyes - I don't recall anything being posted on CB offering up a sample for a DNA profile.

It makes no sense that she did, given that she was asked in court if she had ever bled in the back of her sisters vehicle.

Why would that be asked of CB if her profile was available? Since when does the Crown, when they have a DNA sample, start putting family members on the stand to ask them about their previous bleeding events?

A DNA sample from CB would show she was not the donor of the blood in the rear of her sisters vehicle. It would show similarities, but would be distinct from the blood found in the rear of the vehicle.

There really is no out here on that aspect, that I can see.

Think you're right WD. I remember now that I posted about Mr and Mrs B having given blood for the DNA test, to have answered your query on that subject.

 

[Woodland]

My best guess is, CB was in fact asked and urged to give a DNA sample. She refused - or rather her parents refused on her behalf.

She's too traumatized, too upset, too distraught at this time so don't ask her to give a DNA sample to use in the investigation of her sisters disappearance and murder. If so, it worked very well and a compromise was reached - ask CB on the stand, under oath, if she had ever bled in her sisters car. That was suppose to solve everything and it worked imo - after all, who was looking at a family member as a suspect? Certainly not LE.

Mr and Mrs B didn't have a problem giving a sample for a DNA profile - Mrs B would have known what to give and what not to give for DNA identification.

Jmo.

 

[JohnPaul]

My best guess is, CB was in fact asked and urged to give a DNA sample. She refused

my friend thinks this is accurate

 

[Woodland]

my friend thinks this is accurate

Cool - it's like the weather forecast - can't be wrong all the time.

Can your friend offer up anymore insight into this aspect of the case? Or is that all one really needs to know?

 

[JohnPaul]

Can your friend offer up anymore insight into this aspect of the case??

in regards to what?

if you have any questions about anything i will gladly ask my friend and post his replies

 

[JohnPaul]

although my friend does not believe PB is responsible for this, he just wanted me to share this, for what its worth......

[video=youtube;V6F4_KIU55I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6F4_KIU55I[/video]

 

[Woodland]

in regards to what?

if you have any questions about anything i will gladly ask my friend and post his replies

The question was in regards to, did CB give a sample for DNA testing or not? If she refused, which makes the most sense to me, does your friend know any details surrounding or leading up to that refusal?

 

[Spellbound]

I have just finished reading through both threads on this case and wanted to commend those of you who have stayed so diligent in your search for EB and how she may have been killed (if that is the case). Even in disagreeing on some aspects, you have kept civility and perseverance. I hope you find your answers soon. My best to all of you.

 

[SnoopCat]

I recall somewhere, possibly in thread 1, that Mrs B stated to one of her kids in conversation that she was repairing the parking space because of it "breaking" over the winter. My thinking is that the stones themselves didn't break but they had shifted or "heaved" from the change in weather. This is a common occurrence with patio stones. Ive had it happen on my own property. She likely just wanted to re-flatten the space and the only or best way to do that is to remove the stones and lay fresh compacted gravel down first (or in this case limestone), then replace the stones on top. Based on that I believe the space already existed. JMHO.

 

[SnoopCat]

Its been pretty quiet for the last couple of months. Just wondering, JP, if you've had anymore thoughts about coming forward with the info you have.

 

[eyesonly]

Hey all, we are still working very hard on finding Elizabeth. Nothing really new to post.
We are hoping that LE will open themselves up once her bf's civil suit has concluded.

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect, I don't get the posts going back to last fall. Is there a team effort here or a disconnect?

RB hinted in the Sun article (last fall?) that the perp is close to home - an idea I can't find that he expressed previously.

I was under the impression that over the winter there was a team effort behind the scenes that would bring forth some sort of revelation this spring - and waited patiently for news. But all we have since then is the hope that TPS will be open to re-examining their prior actions (before the lawsuit against them is resolved - so unlikely) and someone close to the action at the time wanting PM's on information.

Seriously? The thread isn't a race - it's about finding EB. I was a fan of RB - but am losing faith rather rapidly. Step it up RB if you think the perp is close to home. We get $13 million is at stake for you - but if you agree with the sensible scenario provided to you using all the evidence available - speak up. It isn't your original idea and never will be - assuming that is the hold up?

I don't know who to have faith in now - so for now have faith in no one. What a pizz off - I thought there was a team here.

 

[eyesonly]

With all due respect, I don't get the posts going back to last fall. Is there a team effort here or a disconnect?

RB hinted in the Sun article (last fall?) that the perp is close to home - an idea I can't find that he expressed previously.

I was under the impression that over the winter there was a team effort behind the scenes that would bring forth some sort of revelation this spring - and waited patiently for news. But all we have since then is the hope that TPS will be open to re-examining their prior actions (before the lawsuit against them is resolved - so unlikely) and someone close to the action at the time wanting PM's on information.

Seriously? The thread isn't a race - it's about finding EB. I was a fan of RB - but am losing faith rather rapidly. Step it up RB if you think the perp is close to home. We get $13 million is at stake for you - but if you agree with the sensible scenario provided to you using all the evidence available - speak up. It isn't your original idea and never will be - assuming that is the hold up?

I don't know who to have faith in now - so for now have faith in no one. What a pizz off - I thought there was a team here.

Hey WD.
Of course there is a team here. I personally haven't had anything new to post and it is extremely frustrating.
I'm not sure I understand what your beef is with RB in relation to this thread and what you mean when you refer to "original" idea and what is RB supposed to step up?
Thanks

 

[eyesonly]

Well apparently whatever team was here has disbanded.
Thanks WB for the site.
Bye for now!

 

[SnoopCat]

This is unfortunate. I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines watching (reading) all the theories unfold. I do hope the major players reconsider. A lot of really good detective work has gone into finding EB.

 

[eyesonly]

This is unfortunate. I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines watching (reading) all the theories unfold. I do hope the major players reconsider. A lot of really good detective work has gone into finding EB.

Hey SnoopCat, thanks for your interest.
The search for eb is still going strong, just goes into a lull every so often.
It is an uphill battle when law enforcement and her own family have refused to have anything more to do with it from the day RB, ebs' bf was convicted.
Law enforcement refuses permission for anyone outside their jurisdiction to bring a cadaver dog in, and anyone in the cadaver dog business is tied to law enforcement somehow and will not endanger their livelihood by crossing the TPS.
Law enforcement will never want to admit they convicted an innocent man so they will not assist in anyway because it would look like they were looking into other possibilities than the one they convicted.
The family has made it very clear as recently as last fall that they have come to terms with ebs' disappearance and don't want to be bothered anymore about it. They have moved on.

In fact I'm planning to be out this weekend trudging around searching for EB with my search partner

 

[eyesonly]

June 19th, 2017, today is 27yrs since you disappeared Elizabeth Bain.
We have not forgotten you, and will not give up until we find you.