Identified! PA - Delaware Co, Ridley Creek State Park, WhtFem 25-45, UP14642, rings w/initials, Jan'16 - Name Withheld

[carbuff]

The bones would also give a general idea of her frame--the size of her hips and ribcage especially.

Updated exclusions https://identifyus.org/en/cases/14642

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Jennifer Cahill-Shadle 1966 Pennsylvania
Danielle Day 1972 New Jersey
Amanda DeGuio 1990 Pennsylvania
Tamera Kingery 1977 South Carolina
Dawn Mozino 1965 Pennsylvania
Melissa Rodriguez 1982 Pennsylvania
Kortne Stouffer 1991 Pennsylvania

 

[JerseyGirl]

Hi everyone. I'm going to add a speculation, if you don't mind.

Chelsea Ricker was mentioned as a possibility earlier in the thread. I don't know if she was ruled out yet or really looked into, but she was my childhood best friend and the description fits her well. She went missing in 2012 and lived in Philadelphia.
She was slender, about 5'5", had blonde hair, and still had her wisdom teeth (according to her dental records). I'm not sure about her shoe size or the rings.
"Prominent chin and teeth" is a vague statement, but I do have a lot of childhood photos of us, and she had pretty big teeth and a chin cleft.

Chelsea has been ruled out:

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:

Jennifer Cahill-Shadle 1966 Pennsylvania
Danielle Day 1972 New Jersey
Amanda DeGuio 1990 Pennsylvania
Tamera Kingery 1977 South Carolina
Dawn Mozino 1965 Pennsylvania
Chelsea Ricker 1988 New Jersey
Melissa Rodriguez 1982 Pennsylvania
Kortne Stouffer 1991 Pennsylvania

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/14642

 

[KaylaraOwl]

I just saw this one come through from the charley project on Facebook: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...delphia-12-April-2012&p=12872865#post12872865

She fits the parameters. I am going to call it in.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

Tip line says that they are sure that Ridley Park Jane Doe is being compared to Jill. Thanked us for looking.

 

[Forager]

Police ask public for help in identifying remains in Ridley Creek State Park
The Delaware County Daily Times, 11/23/16

"The Pennsylvania State Police Criminal Investigation Assessment Unit, and The Florida Institute of Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science, University of South Florida have developed a facial reconstruction of the unidentified female. The Pennsylvania State Police are requesting the public’s assistance in attempting to identify the unknown female. At this point in the investigation, investigators do not feel her death was at the hands of another."

The article also lists the possessions she had with her, with detail that I don't remember seeing before.

 

[heartgoesout]

The initial is now being reported as a "C"
I am guessing this women was a youth run away or has very little family or long term homeless. So much detail about her with no ID yet.

Let's say there is family looking for her across the country. How does it all work? Does the family have to actively look daily for unclaimed bodies or is there a network that reaches out to them? How does one who lives in California know about a Pennsylvania recovered body. What branch of law enforcement handles this type of case? Do they reach out to other law agencies? What happened before the internet? I don't think there is a great system to find families as I naively assumed. I think it is much more difficult.

 

[carbuff]

I wonder how sure they are about the race. She looks like AA with some native mixed in.

The reconstruction isn't on Namus yet. There aren't any new ruleouts. https://identifyus.org/en/cases/14642

 

[rats]

Here's the recon without the arrows over the face.

 

[KaylaraOwl]

That's a very distinctive face.

 

[alucardsdream]

I grew up about 5 minutes away from the park...always used to take my dog there for runs. There's a Penn State campus (used to be Penn State Delco, now I believe it's called Penn State Brandywine) less than a mile from the entrance to the park. I'm sure reports of a missing student would have been pretty well publicized but maybe it was someone visiting the school from a different area?

 

[proctorelites]

Not sure where to ask this questions so direct me if this is not a good place. When a UID is entered into NamUs with their DNA; do they have a database in place that compares DNA and missing automatically? Does such a database exist?

It's my understanding that California takes felony convict's DNA and enters them into a state database. I've heard of cases where they've found a suspect by running their DNA within their state database & matching it to a relative's DNA who committed a felony, then it was just a matter of deciding which brother etc.

So my question is: Is there such a system in place for running missing person's DNA against UID DNA? I have always heard that it has to be pointed out which MP should be compared to a certain UID or the comparison may never happen. Just need some clarification. If there isn't such a system why? And does anyone know if efforts are being made to create one?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Roselvr]

Here's the script ring flipped right side up. I think the stone might be greenish.

I'm scanning thru the thread to grab info to fill in the blanks on her NamUs profile, did they take a new photo of the ring? Gonna send the recons too

Can't believe they have so little info - Clothing on body winter clothing, jewelry

 

[Roselvr]

I'm scanning thru the thread to grab info to fill in the blanks on her NamUs profile, did they take a new photo of the ring? Gonna send the recons too

Can't believe they have so little info - Clothing on body winter clothing, jewelry

Emailed Amy, sent all of the recons available plus her jewelry, I found the initial ring the right way and lightened the pic of the engagement looking ring. Doesn't look green to me. Also sent the jacket, foot wear and back pack. I put the descriptions with the pics to make it easy on her so hoping she updates the profile. The article below has all of the photos. It says there were 2 empty pill bottles, I wonder if she OD'd?

Troopers seek to ID remains found in Ridley Creek State Park Posted:Nov 22 2016 12:13PM EST

Authorities say hikers were walking in a wooded area in Ridley Creek State Park back in January of 2016, when they discovered human remains., fully clothed in cold weather attire.

She is believed to have died sometime in 2014.

According to investigators the body is that of a white woman, believed to be between 25-40 years old, standing between 5'3" and 5'10."

Items found near her body included a green plaid blanket, black cloth gloves, a black Pacific Trail Jacket size large, Gloria Vanderbilt blue jeans, three rings (a gold Irish Claddagh ring, a gold initial ring bearing the initial “C”, and a gold ring with the engraved initials of “C. A. or C.R.” on the interior), two backpacks (navy blue canvas bag, and a Route 66 black back pack), two pairs of shoes (size “9” black Totes boots, and size “9” grey and purple sketchers running shoes), and two empty pill bottles.

I haven't read the whole thread and I know Cheryl Iacovone has been missing since 1977 but have they checked her out? They could be off on how long the person has been there. With the ring possibly having a C on it and her having been heading to Ridley to see her bf who knows.

That's an interesting potential connection.

Did anyone turn her in? She's not listed as ruled out

I take my rings off when I put mittens or gloves on so maybe she did that? Or maybe she knew she was in danger of some sort and didn't want to make it easy for someone to steal her rings.

The rings remind me of the rings I had way back in the 80s. Weird! The one with small diamonds, I had one very similar...just a holiday gift not my wedding ring.
I had tons of "C" jewelry because it's my initial. The first thing I thought was "C" but I could see how it could be a J as well. The claddagh looks like an emerald (my birthstone) and we did order those with birthstones. However, I think a lot of people think "green" when they think of Ireland so maybe it means nothing as far as birthdate in this case.

Maybe they were passed down to her from maybe a mom or grandma that had passed? I know I have several of my grandma's rings that were given to me when she passed away, if anyone ever found the rings in my pocket they'd assume my name started with a "K" when in fact it starts with a "B".
So it's possible her name doesn't even start with a "C".
And the other ring, the claddagh one, I've always thought those looked like a crown or something...lol guess the queen in me sees what I want to see huh? [emoji23][emoji23]

The thoughts & opinions stated above are that, MY random thoughts & opinions.

I have a feeling the rings will belong to an aunt that passed away fairly young

Nope, I never heard back at all, and I haven't for any of the the other no-longer-missing ones I have ever sent. I've sent about a dozen, maybe a bit more, over the past 3 years. All of them were removed after I emailed, but I've never received a response. A few of these were cases where the person had actually been arrested since, but most were very elderly people that had since died. I take them following through as acknowledgement enough, though, so it's fine with me.

I admire your attitude, and I agree that getting action on the substance is the important thing, but it's disappointing to hear that NamUs doesn't do a better job of communicating with the public. People like you are a valuable resource and NamUs should be cultivating those relationships if it really wants to be effective in the internet age.

It's very unprofessional that they do not reply, even just to say thanks. Forager, I agree, they should be cultivating relationships with those of us that take our time to send information. Right now I'm pretty worked up over Michael Nance not replying to my emails. A WS member did a lot of ancestry research for one missing gal who was an only child, her parents are deceased. The WS member traced back to a maternal grandmother to find a female cousin to get a sample. I've asked twice since May how it went, one was yesterday when I saw the DNA status change. DNA status says samples submitted - tests not complete when they used to say tests incomplete. NamUs is supposed to be "public friendly" but some of the RSA's sure aren't.

 

[Forager]

Not sure where to ask this questions so direct me if this is not a good place. When a UID is entered into NamUs with their DNA; do they have a database in place that compares DNA and missing automatically? Does such a database exist?

It's my understanding that California takes felony convict's DNA and enters them into a state database. I've heard of cases where they've found a suspect by running their DNA within their state database & matching it to a relative's DNA who committed a felony, then it was just a matter of deciding which brother etc.

So my question is: Is there such a system in place for running missing person's DNA against UID DNA? I have always heard that it has to be pointed out which MP should be compared to a certain UID or the comparison may never happen. Just need some clarification. If there isn't such a system why? And does anyone know if efforts are being made to create one?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I've been wondering about that too and just tried to Google up an answer. NamUs does DNA samples and profiles, and has "DNA analysis" capabilities, and has some sort of automated matching capabilities for matching personal data, but doesn't claim to have the automaton to run DNA profiles against a DNA database of the unidentified. My guess is that they would be touting that ability if they had it.

I think that the kind of check you suggest make perfect sense, but I wounder whether NamUs is the right place to mount the kind of IT effort it would take to do that. I'd have thought that it would make more sense to have a Federally funded website that would run those kind of checks fast and well against a huge DNA database for NamUs and LE outfits across the country.

So, anyway, how do the matches get made? I stumbled upon one example from a recent article in the Democrat and Courier:
3 men tested for DNA match in Tammy Jo homicide
Gary Craig, November 10, 2016

"...Nowell connected with Alexander's sister, Pamela Dyson, and they then approached the Hernando County Sheriff's Office, which could not locate a missing person report for Alexander, who was last seen in Florida in 1979. Dyson provided a DNA sample, and information about Alexander was posted on the Department of Justice's National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, or NamUs.

NamUs includes information about missing persons or bodies that are found and unidentified. An online community, called Websleuths, has worked for years to try to identify missing persons. When the information about Alexander went online, one of its members, Carl Koppelman of California, believed that Tammy's appearance matched that of the young woman found in the Caledonia cornfield, whose image had been circulated internationally.

He reached out to law enforcement in Florida. A Hernando County Sheriff's Office Detective, George Loydgren, was assigned cold cases and was the contact for the missing person case of Tammy Jo Alexander. Once he saw the photo of the girl found dead in New York, "I thought right away it was her," Loydgren said.

Dyson's DNA sample showed a familial match with the body found in Caledonia."

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Names does not identify her race.

What do you think about this girl?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19769/25/

 

[alucardsdream]

All the newspaper articles have said police believe it's a white female (one example is this one from last week: http://www.delcotimes.com/general-n...dentifying-remains-in-ridley-creek-state-park ) but it's really hard to tell from the reconstruction...my first thought when I saw it was that she had a mixed racial background.

 

[Roselvr]

Not sure where to ask this questions so direct me if this is not a good place. When a UID is entered into NamUs with their DNA; do they have a database in place that compares DNA and missing automatically? Does such a database exist?

It's my understanding that California takes felony convict's DNA and enters them into a state database. I've heard of cases where they've found a suspect by running their DNA within their state database & matching it to a relative's DNA who committed a felony, then it was just a matter of deciding which brother etc.

So my question is: Is there such a system in place for running missing person's DNA against UID DNA? I have always heard that it has to be pointed out which MP should be compared to a certain UID or the comparison may never happen. Just need some clarification. If there isn't such a system why? And does anyone know if efforts are being made to create one?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Sorry, I wanted to reply to the question yesterday. NamUs is UNT, in order for the system to get a match; both samples have to be in UNT or if MP family allows running against UP's in CODIS, it has to be at a level that is findable. All we're able to see these days are DNA complete, we don't know what database they are in. Even after all the years I've been doing this, I'm still learning. Below is one example


Match! NM - Pagosa Springs, WhtFem 55UFNM, 25-35, Sep'82 - Margaret Walden

What am I missing? Both say DNA Sample submitted - Tests complete. This isn't a case I've followed so am unsure
Margaret Walden NamUs DNA Sample submitted - Tests complete
NamUs UP # 5326 DNA Sample submitted - Tests complete

I have an answer. This goes to show that we can't assume DNA processed & complete means that NamUs holds them or ever that they were run through the same system. It just means that someone has the DNA on file.

The person I spoke to from NamUs said that one sample (Margo's family) was at CalDOJ lab and the other (Margo as JD) was at FBI. They do not know outside of UNT if they were at the level to be compared nationally.

I've been wondering about that too and just tried to Google up an answer. NamUs does DNA samples and profiles, and has "DNA analysis" capabilities, and has some sort of automated matching capabilities for matching personal data, but doesn't claim to have the automaton to run DNA profiles against a DNA database of the unidentified. My guess is that they would be touting that ability if they had it.

I think that the kind of check you suggest make perfect sense, but I wounder whether NamUs is the right place to mount the kind of IT effort it would take to do that. I'd have thought that it would make more sense to have a Federally funded website that would run those kind of checks fast and well against a huge DNA database for NamUs and LE outfits across the country.

So, anyway, how do the matches get made? I stumbled upon one example from a recent article in the Democrat and Courier:
3 men tested for DNA match in Tammy Jo homicide
Gary Craig, November 10, 2016

"...Nowell connected with Alexander's sister, Pamela Dyson, and they then approached the Hernando County Sheriff's Office, which could not locate a missing person report for Alexander, who was last seen in Florida in 1979. Dyson provided a DNA sample, and information about Alexander was posted on the Department of Justice's National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, or NamUs.

NamUs includes information about missing persons or bodies that are found and unidentified. An online community, called Websleuths, has worked for years to try to identify missing persons. When the information about Alexander went online, one of its members, Carl Koppelman of California, believed that Tammy's appearance matched that of the young woman found in the Caledonia cornfield, whose image had been circulated internationally.

He reached out to law enforcement in Florida. A Hernando County Sheriff's Office Detective, George Loydgren, was assigned cold cases and was the contact for the missing person case of Tammy Jo Alexander. Once he saw the photo of the girl found dead in New York, "I thought right away it was her," Loydgren said.

Dyson's DNA sample showed a familial match with the body found in Caledonia."

When an MP or UP DNA is added it is processed then searched in the databases, some get a match, others do not.

I run Cali's FB page. When Carl found Tammy, Tammy's NamUs profile did not have a DNA sample to compare to Cali. Everything went so fast, LE got a sample from her sister, her sister's sample was rushed to UNT to be processed then compared directly with Cali.

 

[Bit of hope]

Sorry, I wanted to reply to the question yesterday. NamUs is UNT, in order for the system to get a match; both samples have to be in UNT or if MP family allows running against UP's in CODIS, it has to be at a level that is findable. All we're able to see these days are DNA complete, we don't know what database they are in. Even after all the years I've been doing this, I'm still learning. Below is one example


Match! NM - Pagosa Springs, WhtFem 55UFNM, 25-35, Sep'82 - Margaret Walden






When an MP or UP DNA is added it is processed then searched in the databases, some get a match, others do not.

I run Cali's FB page. When Carl found Tammy, Tammy's NamUs profile did not have a DNA sample to compare to Cali. Everything went so fast, LE got a sample from her sister, her sister's sample was rushed to UNT to be processed then compared directly with Cali.

So everytime I think it's a rule out, because of DNA tests being completed (and I assume that they checked the DNA with everybody in the Namus system) I'm totally wrong?

 

[Roselvr]

So everytime I think it's a rule out, because of DNA tests being completed (and I assume that they checked the DNA with everybody in the Namus system) I'm totally wrong?

We're all wrong when we assume. If both say DNA available, it need to be called in to check if it's been ruled out.

 

[Forager]

<abridged, with respect, for focus>

When an MP or UP DNA is added it is processed then searched in the databases, some get a match, others do not.

I run Cali's FB page. When Carl found Tammy, Tammy's NamUs profile did not have a DNA sample to compare to Cali. Everything went so fast, LE got a sample from her sister, her sister's sample was rushed to UNT to be processed then compared directly with Cali.

Thanks for that, and for that reference to CODIS. I'm early on the learning curve on this stuff, but it's starting to make better sense to me. If I'm understanding correctly from the Wikipedia page for CODIS, NamUs and state level DNA collection efforts take in DNA samples, digitize them, and send boiled down indexing data on them to CODIS. CODIS puts that summary index data into its databases and is able to search them for matches when asked, and to the the extent that various controlling state and federal laws permit. Apparent matches at the level of the index comparisons then need to be confirmed with more detailed comparisons of the DNA samples involved.

So it sounds to me like NamUs could routinely check new DNA profiles that it generates against its own database, or even against or against CODIS's databases. Does that sound right?

Anyway, it's very encouraging to hear that you guys have been making real life contributions like the one in that story about Tammy. Hats off to you. Is there a WS thread for that case?