IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #5

[monkeypants]

Thanks for the quick clean up mods!!

 

[Nocgirl]

Question I am sorry if this has already been asked but this thread has gotten so insanely long I don't know how to find anything,.

Did they find the girls phones? Were any personal belongings found? Is there any indication one of the girls was arranging to meet someone there?

 

[vliam]

In most rural areas, even if you hear a couple of gunshots, you don't think anything of it. Somebody hunting, target shooting, going after a varmint in the henhouse, whatever.

I hear shooting year-round and don't think anything of it. It barely registers unless someone's firing off a .30-06 or something.

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

OK, I have a theory on a timeline.

By looking at the shadows of the side rail and the orientation of the bridge with respect to the sun this time of year, it looks like the suspect walked SE on that bridge HOURS BEFORE the younger girl is seen in the photo at 2:07 pm.

That would put the suspect in the woody area on the opposite side of the creek where the girls were found. If he saw them coming and ambushed them, then dragged them down in the woods to do what he did. Could he have then dragged them across to the other side to hide them from being found? Since maybe others had seen him camping out on the south side of the creek?

Just my guess.

This makes sense.

How does this work, logistically, with where they would have been ambushed and where they were found?

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[Ms Suzanne]

I was thinking the suspect knew them or knew about them or one of their victims.But there are killers that wait in parks and areas like this for their victims.I love walking in parks.But I am afraid to now because I hear of this happening a lot.

 

[kittymittons]

Question I am sorry if this has already been asked but this thread has gotten so insanely long I don't know how to find anything,.

Did they find the girls phones? Were any personal belongings found?

I believe that info hasn't been released. Not sure if they have the phone or not. Abby's mom said she didn't have a phone.


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[NotSoGrumpy]

It could be that teens have amazingly secret apps now. The messages and photos are hidden or self destruct. Eventually they will be found but usually not immediately. As technology improves the ability to find them does as well.

Even FB has a "Secret conversations" option!

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[PingTheRouter]

It could be that teens have amazingly secret apps now. The messages and photos are hidden or self destruct. Eventually they will be found but usually not immediately. As technology improves the ability to find them does as well.

if its an encryption based app which rely on two way encryption between the "chat" participants then no you can never see whats inside as the key is password locked and also encrypted meaning to brute force your way in will take thousands of years if at all 1024 bit or higher is basically unbreakable if the key is not stored on the apps server, which from what i know it is not

 

[perfectingpink]

Thank you. In the photo the bridge doesn't seem to be very far off of the ground. How high is the bridge if you know?

I have walked old bridges that were high up where the wood was bleached from age and some of the boards were rotten but I never was afraid walking across them. I never had to balance myself with my hands/arms though.

If the bridge was unsafe wouldn't they close it to visitors? Do you know if there are any warnings signs before approaching the bridge. The reason I asked the bridge does look aged and old but it doesnt look unsafe to me.

If someone fell off this bridge how far would they fall? TIA

Just because I think we need a little bit of levity, I thought I would share my thoughts on this pic. The square on the right is clearly Paddington Bear climbing the tree and the right is someone dealing crack. :butthead:

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

Question I am sorry if this has already been asked but this thread has gotten so insanely long I don't know how to find anything,.

Did they find the girls phones? Were any personal belongings found?

LE has not said.

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[Confusion]

How do people here get their minds to move on from an idea (or a person) you get stuck on, but is almost certainly unrelated? I keep trying to find something to convince me that a certain man is not involved, but my sleuthing skills are not likely on par with many here. I started with a man in a video who was from the area, and was at the bridge. I thought he might be the same general build/type as the man in the stills. His account was a first name and last initial, so I did a search for that in the general area.

What I eventually came up with is a man with the same first name and a last name with the same initial who works in Delphi as a teacher. I can't find a picture of him, so I have no idea if it's the same guy and I've found nothing saying he's done anything inappropriate in the past. What I'm wondering is, would the experienced seuthers here assume it was off track, or would you continue to look for pictures or something else tying him to the girls?

TIA

 

[Justice101]

Watching that ABC video showing the creek behind the roped-off crime scene woods.... I don't think the girls would have gone across that creek but as a last resort.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree that on the right side, it seems that there is something heavy in the pocket of his jacket. The fabric is pulled straight down and there is a shadow of the object. Further, it appears in both photos despite him (and the jacket) moving. Is the barrel pointed towards his arm rather than forward?

What, does he have a secret pouch that can be accessed through that opening at the bottom of the jacket so he can pull it out with his left hand? Seems clumsy.

LE has this video, why don't they release more of it? How can MORE photos of this guy hurt the investigation? Does anyone think they have this guy in their sights but are waiting for DNA tests to come back?

And wouldn't people hear the gun shots? It seems that the sound would ricochet all through the woods.

This guy lived there at some point and hung out in these woods - a lot. I think he targeted LG, she looks older in some photos and I am going to be brutally honest but I think she had contact with him, thinking he was a young admirer and told him where they would be. He likely thought she was 15-16 by her fb photos and poor Abigail was in the dark about it.

Why was he not at work? Unemployed? School employee?

I wonder who came up with the idea to hike that bridge/river/woods area and if the parents knew where they were going? I just can't imagine my parents, even 50 years ago when things were much safer and there was no social media, saying 'yes' to such a request. It would never have happened. This is why I think the parents didn't know what was going on. Someone too young talked someone else (also too young for proper discerment) into dropping them off there and I think it was for a secret rendezvous with the all-too-familiar internet predator posing as a teen. Or one of them posted the plans and a parent of one of their school chums caught the post. I do not believe for one second this was a crime of opportunity where they just happened upon this monster while lollygagging on a trail. JMHO

I agree it was a plan of the perps. Just not sure whether she had anything to do with the plan. If the perp had a smart phone and he was following her on SM and somehow stumbled across her SM posts he may have seen that she may have posted she was going to the bridge.

The perp could have timed his visit to be there before she got there and stalked them.

I have to wonder if he used to live in that town and was back living with either a friend or just living on the streets but knew the area.

I think he by now is trying to leave the area. Maybe hopped a train out of town or walked it at night to get out of area.

He could also be lying low in the same town so I would not let my guard down till he is caught.

This guy is the worse of the worse. Preying on young girls for his own selfish reasons and then killing them afterwards. What a monster.

 

[jillycat]

It could be that teens have amazingly secret apps now. The messages and photos are hidden or self destruct. Eventually they will be found but usually not immediately. As technology improves the ability to find them does as well.

That's true, and as you say, it might take some time to find it.

Or not...I wonder how quickly they hit up the girl's social media, then perhaps as things progressed, would have handed that off to the FBI. Do we know at what point other agencies came onto the case?

 

[galaxygal]

The girls were likely controlled by one being threatened and the other being too scared out of concern for her to friend to run away. I know they were teens, but very young teens. One man could do that.

I still think there's a possibility they ran from him.. and then he caught up with them, closer to where they were found. The only reason I think this is probably narrow mindedness on my part, but when I was that age, that's what I did when someone I thought was a threat rushed at me.. I ran the moment I detected movement towards me. If a best friend had been with me, I can see myself saying.. RUN!! I think running away is an automatic reaction when danger is detected. I think the only way compliance may have come about in this circumstance is that he caught them off guard, and then threatened them. If they had any inkling they were being followed, my thinking is they were saying, "get ready to run.."

 

[carbuff]

Sorry, guess i should clarify. Yes, i lived and live in rural areas. Its not uncommon. I meant if the girls were shot, wouldn't police immediately say foul play, homicide, etc?

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Not necessarily. Information like that is often kept quiet until at least an arrest and sometimes until trial.

 

[LietKynes]

I completely agree. I would think however that the FBI and homeland security would be able to trace very well forensics off the girls phones/computers to find this guy if it was a SM contact. Could he be good at IT and have scrubbed his fake accounts prior to meeting with them? even so the FBI is very very very good at that kind of thing..( unless they're e-mails from the secretary of state of course... just a little humor... no offense meant to anyone.) Also what if the guy is in very very good shape and had a bicycle with a vehicle positioned, much further down the road... quiet and easy to conceal..

RSBM

Can't believe how quickly this thread is progressing....

So, the girls' phones were found ? Not sure how I missed it. Looking back I think it was said their phones were found in water.. so forensics has been able to restore them, then ?
If so, that's good news.
:moo:

 

[Sillybilly]

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Threads are dedicated to discussion of the case at hand. Please keep off-topic posts to a bare minimum.



:tyou:

 

[carbuff]

Just because I think we need a little bit of levity, I thought I would share my thoughts on this pic. The square on the right is clearly Paddington Bear climbing the tree and the right is someone dealing crack. :butthead:

View attachment 110560

No, no, no. The one on the left is clearly a T. Rex.

 

[leedawg77]

If the outline in the pocket is a gun, it's not a small handgun. It looks a lot like a Desert Eagle and not your typical conceal carry. It also appears to have been placed into the pocket by the barrel (handle in first) which doesn't make sense.