IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #40

[liltexans]

Overnight, the man who kidnapped his own daughter, led police on a multi-county chase, including through Carroll County, crashed, and was shot and killed by LE, was identified. Just in case anyone is still interested. Here's an article giving his name. There's no reason to believe this case is connected to the Delphi murders, but some of us were following it yesterday as it happened.

http://wsbt.com/news/local/officers...wielding-weapon-after-chase-in-pulaski-county

 

[abstr]

This is why I was wondering, did the girls trespass to pet/see the animals? Was the owner maybe in his cups at the time? Is he a happy drunk? Does he get mean? Does he black out? He's an alcoholic. This is fact. He broke terms of his probation, so I am assuming (which I hate to do) that he's been drinking.

Did he have someone go round those girls up? Like a hired hand? Maybe that was the end of it for him and he passed out in his rocker, or left to get his goldfish, trespassers completely forgotten. Maybe hired hand is a bad man that used the whole incident to do very bad things then he took off..

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Do you have medical records stating he is for a fact an alcoholic? That would be a serious infraction of the HIPAA laws and I am sure you don't want the fines and confinement associated with that.

I have no opinion as to RL's involvement but we are not privy to his medical records. Court records do not have ICD 10 codes

 

[Beth11311]

Your the only poster besides me that talks about fiber evidence. I agree with you there. DNA has become such a rockstar that we forget all if the wonderful, amazing forensics that can be done with fibers, tape, rope, soil etc.

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Don't forget footprints...which by the way it would seem LE could have based on the fact that the girls were found by following a set of footprints in the first place. There are a lot of ways in which this case befuddles me, that being one of them. If they have suspect footprints, then I would think they would have done a casting and compared RL's boots/foot size etc. Maybe they already did. Fibers can be very telling....maybe they found a fiber on one of the girls that they knew is used in car/truck carpeting - could have helped in sparking the SW and towing the truck. Lots of unknowns, for us non-LE peeps.

 

[luckeeesmom]

Maybe I'm missing something that was obtained from the Media or LE but is there direct evidence about the sequence of events? Evidence that says for sure that the girls were accosted on the bridge vs. somewhere else along the trail?

What I see are the photo/still video of the girls on the bridge and of BG on the bridge but I wasn't aware that they had been connected to the voice recording of "down the hill" (not in regard to being part of the crime but in regard to happening at/near the same time) so I've been thinking of them as two separate events in the sequence of the day. Does that make sense? It opens up the possibility of two encounters with BG in that afternoon with one possibly being him scoping out the girls and the surroundings to ensure they were not visible and to come up with a plan for attack. Just my opinion. I have been reading the threads but with so much info, it's easy to miss stuff.

BBM

Trespass where?

The girls were accosted on the Monon bridge in a public park. They were told to go "down the hill" at the end of the bridge. How could they have been trespassing?

 

[Madhom]

Do you have medical records stating he is for a fact an alcoholic? That would be a serious infraction of the HIPAA laws and I am sure you don't want the fines and confinement associated with that.

I have no opinion as to RL's involvement but we are not privy to his medical records. Court records do not have ICD 10 codes

I don't know if there is a clinical definition of alcoholic, but if you are on probation for multiple DUI, and know that getting caught drinking will result in jail time, and your town and street are flooded with police and FBI and reporters, and you still drink and drive, yea, you're an alcoholic...JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think it is clear that the girls were told to "go down the hill." I do not hear "go" and he could have been answering a question or pointing out something. Unlikely perhaps but we just don't know.

 

[liltexans]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I for one like to read everyone's ideas, even if they don't mix with mine. It's why I'm here, not just home reading the newspaper. Please reconsider. If I was rude to you I apologise.

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I agree! I like your newspaper comment. If I wanted an echo chamber for my ideas, I would just talk to my cat.

I think we need everyone's input and ideas. That's the whole point of this forum, IMO.

 

[Jax49]

Maybe I'm missing something that was obtained from the Media or LE but is there direct evidence about the sequence of events? Evidence that says for sure that the girls were accosted on the bridge vs. somewhere else along the trail?

What I see are the photo/still video of the girls on the bridge and of BG on the bridge but I wasn't aware that they had been connected to the voice recording of "down the hill" (not in regard to being part of the crime but in regard to happening at/near the same time) so I've been thinking of them as two separate events in the sequence of the day. Does that make sense? It opens up the possibility of two encounters with BG in that afternoon with one possibly being him scoping out the girls and the surroundings to ensure they were not visible and to come up with a plan for attack. Just my opinion. I have been reading the threads but with so much info, it's easy to miss stuff.

In one of the press conferences where LE called Libby a hero for capturing the video, a comment is made about "criminal activity which is about to occur". (Paraphrasing)

That indicated to me that the events started to go very bad immediately after the video started. I'll try to find the link.

MOO

 

[liltexans]

I don't think it is clear that the girls were told to "go down the hill." I do not hear "go" and he could have been answering a question or pointing out something. Unlikely perhaps but we just don't know.

I agree with you that I also cannot hear "go" and LE has said the released audio clip is only 3 words. However, after the audio was released, Sgt. Slocum spoke to Crime Watch Daily (I watched the show at the time) and he said he thought the voice sounded frustrated or exasperated as if the man had already asked the girls to do something and he had to ask again.

I figure Sgt. Slocum has heard all of the audio so I give some weight to his interpretation of the audio released. However, I still don't hear "go".

 

[kstephens98]

RL is not BG.

Anyone with two eyes can see that.

Appearantly LE isn't as convinced as you are. Neither am I. MOO

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[abstr]

"
There is a clinical definition. I am not defending RL but can you give the link where it is stated he drank and drove while his street was "flooded by police and FBI" I somehow missed that.

Didn't quote original post and now I can't find it. Does anyone know what condition of his probation he broke? The person I was replying to said he drank and drove but as far as I know he was not pulled over? Help me out here...

 

[kstephens98]

BBM

Trespass where?

The girls were accosted on the Monon bridge in a public park. They were told to go "down the hill" at the end of the bridge. How could they have been trespassing?

Trespass on private property. Maybe before they were accosted ? Maybe on previous hiking trips and the perp finally got fed up? There are many possibilities. We don't know what we don't know.

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[ninij9]

Regardless, what we know is that the girls were dropped off at the park, they walked to the bridge, as they approached the end of the bridge the suspect was 'on them', and they were abducted. Then they were murdered. They were not wandering around on private property causing problems and then abducted on the bridge.

WADR, we don't know what all else they were doing. The whole reason I come here to BS on WS is to try to work out theories that are in my head. If I just wanted to wait for the facts to present themselves, I wouldn't be on a sleuthing forum. I honestly don't get why this bothers people. No one here is sleuthing outside the scope of what's reasonable. We are within Tos, and rumors are strictly off limits. If you don't like my theory, then ok, I won't keep posting them. No big deal. There are so many threads here just starving for attention.


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[luckeeesmom]

Thanks for looking. I vaguely remember that now that you brought it up; however, if the BG photos on the bridge were in fact video stills and the sound clip was also video, could they have been two separate video clips vs. part of the same recording session? Ex. If there were two separate video clips, did LE imply that the criminal activity was about to occur after the video clip on the bridge vs. just after the video clip that included the voice recording "down the hill?"

Then, I would not be so sure about linking the moment of confrontation to the time on the bridge vs. it being somewhere else along the trail. Just my opinion. I value all the time that so many have put forth on this site and the ideas that are generated. I'm not trying to poke holes in anyone's theory Just wanting to make sure that we are not making assumptions that we hold as fact.

In one of the press conferences where LE calls Libby a hero for capturing the video, a comment is made about "criminal activity which is about to occur". (Paraphrasing)

That indicated to me that the events started to go very bad immediately after or as the video started. I'll try to find the link.

MOO

 

[Burnt Toast]

I don't know if there is a clinical definition of alcoholic, but if you are on probation for multiple DUI, and know that getting caught drinking will result in jail time, and your town and street are flooded with police and FBI and reporters, and you still drink and drive, yea, you're an alcoholic...JMO

how do you know he still drinks and drives and was doing so while FBI and reporters "flooded" the town?

 

[Spiritecho]

So I need some clarification

We know the snapchat picture was taken at 2:07.
Do we know what time Libby recorded down the hill?
We do NOT know if BG then had the girls go back over the bridge and down the hill right?

If I read the maps done here...they were found on the opposite side...on the side closer to the cemetery? Or am I turned around?

We don't know if BG had them go back over the bridge, down the path and then tossed/rolled them off the side?

 

[Bemused]

Your the only poster besides me that talks about fiber evidence. I agree with you there. DNA has become such a rockstar that we forget all if the wonderful, amazing forensics that can be done with fibers, tape, rope, soil etc.

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I'll be curious to see how many people who won't even entertain the possibility it could be RL will say they always suspected/knew it if it turns out the LEOs indicate otherwise at some point.

 

[Bemused]

i think you missed the most important part of their statement, which is "at this time".

Exactly. They didn't stop at suspect. I found it very interesting, but we are parsing and assuming. I filed it away but didn't discount it.

 

[ninij9]

Do you have medical records stating he is for a fact an alcoholic? That would be a serious infraction of the HIPAA laws and I am sure you don't want the fines and confinement associated with that.

I have no opinion as to RL's involvement but we are not privy to his medical records. Court records do not have ICD 10 codes

Not besides the DUIs he kept getting. Should have added JMO. For that I apologise. I am not breaking a HIPAA law as I am not in health care BTW. You can only be charged with that if you are disclosing known medical records. But thanks for the fear mongering.

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[autumnsantomauro]

YUP! I couldn't agree more. We're too polite and we teach our kids to be polite. We need to also teach them about that lil voice/instinct when they come upon a stranger that's creeping them out, that it's ok not to be so polite if they feel uncomfortable.

I agree! I have taught both my boy and girl since they were little to not be embarrassed to scream if they feel weird and how to escape from a kidnapper by hitting them in their privates, biting them, and running/screaming "this is not my father/mother!!!". In theory, they say they would but it is not in them to be disrespectful to adults in general. In reality, I would hope they would do the right thing but I fear they would freeze up and not want to be disrespectful. Ugh it sucks! We live in such a crazy world.

How many murder investigations have you personally investigated or prosecuted? WADR, I believe you're mistaken.

And WADR, you don't know the primary suspect isn't in custody. I can safely state that as fact because the police haven't said one way or the other up to this exact second in time.

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