UK UK - Andrew Gosden, 14, Doncaster, South Yorks, 14 Sept 2007

[John.121]

I don't think the person he met up with offered him a ride all the way back. Maybe he didn't buy a return ticket because he was simply uncertain about how returns or the train system work. I mean he was 14 and traveling a long way unsupervised for the first time, probably a bit nervous, mind racing, packed train station. The ticket guy could have started going into detail about returns (you can use it at these times for this price, off peak, etc) and it might have just been information overload and he just thought meh, i'll stick to what i know and buy the ticket back on the way back. It's certainly not uncommon for a kid of his age from a 'sheltered' background to trust routine and what he knows in those sorts of instances. Just because he was intelligent it doesn't mean he would have a grasp on how budgeting and traveling works.

The only reasons that make sense for him going to London to me are that he met up with someone or that he was going to buy something or do something specifically. I know the parents looked into concerts and gigs that were going on around that weekend, but is it possible he went to London to upgrade his PSP or something like that? I believe he had the older PSP and the newer model came out even in that same week, so maybe he went down to London to get the newer one? Or part exchange his old one? But then, why wouldn't he go to a major city nearer to where he lived? How widely were these new PSP's stocked across the country?

The messenger bag he took wasn't THAT big. Maybe he did just throw a jacket or hoodie in there in case it got cold but not much more. It definitely seems to me that he was only planning a day trip whatever he was doing. I honestly think too much emphasis is placed on him not buying a return ticket. Suicide makes absolutely no sense to me and neither does running away to start a new life. He would've taken more cash, more clothes, a bit of food, etc if he was running away for good.

 

[BronxBronxBronx]

Hey there, I'm a new member and this is the case that really resonates with me from all the cases I've read about.

I've read through everything I can get my hands on since I've heard about this case. Something that I find odd though, is how many little details that seem to contradict each other due to the media.
I have a couple of questions of my own though which I hope people might be able to help answer.

1. Was Andrew a comic or graphic novel fan? I don't want to explain why I think this matters yet, out of fear it throwing people off the scent or being a total non-clue, but a comment on a Reddit board regarding him instantly made me think of something.
2. Has the rail ticket system changed at all since 2007? i.e. Could Andrew not have bought a return due to the return being offered being valid only on certain trains (therefore he didn't buy the return as it would have been effectively wasting money, due to him wanting to get another train back.)
3. Are we sure that he hadn't done a day trip like this in the past? Had his parents left him alone on school holidays, for example, where he would have been free to go and get back without fear of being caught?

This is my first post, so please, if I have said anything or done anything I shouldn't have, I'm sorry!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Hey there, I'm a new member and this is the case that really resonates with me from all the cases I've read about.

I've read through everything I can get my hands on since I've heard about this case. Something that I find odd though, is how many little details that seem to contradict each other due to the media.
I have a couple of questions of my own though which I hope people might be able to help answer.

1. Was Andrew a comic or graphic novel fan? I don't want to explain why I think this matters yet, out of fear it throwing people off the scent or being a total non-clue, but a comment on a Reddit board regarding him instantly made me think of something.
2. Has the rail ticket system changed at all since 2007? i.e. Could Andrew not have bought a return due to the return being offered being valid only on certain trains (therefore he didn't buy the return as it would have been effectively wasting money, due to him wanting to get another train back.)
3. Are we sure that he hadn't done a day trip like this in the past? Had his parents left him alone on school holidays, for example, where he would have been free to go and get back without fear of being caught?

This is my first post, so please, if I have said anything or done anything I shouldn't have, I'm sorry!

:welcome: BBB! Good to have a fresh pair of eyes on the case and great questions - I don't know the answer to any of them though... I'm sure someone will come along who might!

 

[BronxBronxBronx]

Thanks Cagney!

I forgot to mention one other thing. A lot of people mentioned how Andrew didn't bring along his PSP charger, and how this was another indication of how he wasn't planning to return. Just because his PSP charger was left at home, it didn't mean he didn't have a way of charging it up. The PSP's were able to be charged through a mini-USB connection, merely by changing a setting in the Options menu of the device. Now if any of the Gosden family owned a plethora of electronic devices with a USB-mini connection that could be charged through a wall-socket or a plug with a USB connection, that could be used to charge the PSP. You could say that his Mum or Dad would know if something like this would be missing, and I'm not doubting that is the case, but would your parents know the whereabouts of every plug and wire in the house?

Now as someone who owned a PSP back in the day, I preferred to use the USB method of charging my PSP for two different reasons. Firstly, because I could charge it through the computer, saving a plug socket for another electronic item. Secondly, because the PSP wire had a tendency to keep falling out.

I'm not saying this is the case, but if it turned out Andrew did take a means of charging up his PSP, I think it would sway people's minds just a little as to why he went down to London in the first place.

 

[Farley]

Hey there, I'm a new member and this is the case that really resonates with me from all the cases I've read about.

I've read through everything I can get my hands on since I've heard about this case. Something that I find odd though, is how many little details that seem to contradict each other due to the media.
I have a couple of questions of my own though which I hope people might be able to help answer.

1. Was Andrew a comic or graphic novel fan? I don't want to explain why I think this matters yet, out of fear it throwing people off the scent or being a total non-clue, but a comment on a Reddit board regarding him instantly made me think of something.
2. Has the rail ticket system changed at all since 2007? i.e. Could Andrew not have bought a return due to the return being offered being valid only on certain trains (therefore he didn't buy the return as it would have been effectively wasting money, due to him wanting to get another train back.)
3. Are we sure that he hadn't done a day trip like this in the past? Had his parents left him alone on school holidays, for example, where he would have been free to go and get back without fear of being caught?

This is my first post, so please, if I have said anything or done anything I shouldn't have, I'm sorry!

Not sure on the 1 and 3. But train tickets are the same now. He could have refused the return because it had restrictions and didn't fit into when he wanted to return (if he wanted to return by train that is).

Also the PSP charger. This was ten years ago. Everything at the time had priority chargers. Phones all had different chargers and very very few things charged via mini USB. There was no tablet pc's etc and the other portable gaming devices all had proprietary chargers. I had a PSP and it was the only thing in the house that charged via USB (and I've always been a gadget lover). So personally I think the likely hood of him taking a mini USB charger is slim and if he did it would have been the charger for something else and would have been noticed.

 

[Ellmau]

Not sure on the 1 and 3. But train tickets are the same now. He could have refused the return because it had restrictions and didn't fit into when he wanted to return (if he wanted to return by train that is).

Only really if he wanted to trvel at peak time. But returns are generally only a little more than singles, so getting two singles would be almost twice the cost. A peak single would be a LOT more. It doesn't seem to me likely that he intended to return by train.

 

[Farley]

Only really if he wanted to trvel at peak time. But returns are generally only a little more than singles, so getting two singles would be almost twice the cost. A peak single would be a LOT more. It doesn't seem to me likely that he intended to return by train.

No I absolutely agree with you. I don't think he intended to return by train either.

But I think a lot of people take him not getting the return as a sign he had no intention of coming back. When there are plenty of reasons why he may have refused it. Restrictions being one of them.

That said he could have had no intention of returning for all we know. Sadly after ten years with not a single lead I fear we (and more importantly Andrew's family) my never know.

 

[TroyinTX]

I tend to believe that the reason he did not buy a return ticket is because whoever he went there to meet promised him a way back home.

 

[AndrewGosresearch]

"Was Andrew a comic or graphic novel fan? I don't want to explain why I think this matters yet, out of fear it throwing people off the scent or being a total non-clue, but a comment on a Reddit board regarding him instantly made me think of something."

I've been working on this case for some time and I'm interested to talk with you about the question you raised above. Can you please explain your thinking 're the comic/graphic novel angle. Thanks.

 

[martin123]

This case is one i have looked at over and over again. I believe he went to London to meet someone, the fact that he started walking home a couple of weeks before he vanished instead of taking the bus indicates that he may have been saving money for his trip or even meeting up with the person,could it be possible that Andrew was getting a lift on those occasions. This is something that Andrew had planned a while in advance, <mod snip> I believe he was manipulated by someone he knew and trusted.That this person offered to meet him in london for some reason,possibly a day out and promised to give him a lift back without his perents ever knowing. I believe the answer to what happened to Andrew lies closer to home,Was there any teacher,staff member,or pupil at his school absent that day, was there someone in his neighbourhood acting out of character, Was Andrew seen talking to someone more then usual in the weeks leading up to him going missing.,What was Andrews behaviour like in school in the weeks leading up to him going missing.

 

[Jennibee]

Could he have been subjected to a 'catfish' type scenario? The person he thought he was meeting was fictional and the reality was a person with sinister motives?


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[samwilzrhcp]

Could he have been subjected to a 'catfish' type scenario? The person he thought he was meeting was fictional and the reality was a person with sinister motives?


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I think it's more likely he went without the intention of meeting anyone. I personally feel that he wanted to attend a concert, fell in with the wrong crowd, and some sort of accident happened, possibly involving drugs, his body then well hidden thus no trace. Someone felt guilt along the line and just wanted to spill, but thought against it at the last minute. This explains the police station visitor. I feel this is the most likely scenario, as I feel we would know about any online communications between Andrew and a stranger.


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[ekardh]

I think it's more likely he went without the intention of meeting anyone. I personally feel that he wanted to attend a concert, fell in with the wrong crowd, and some sort of accident happened, possibly involving drugs, his body then well hidden thus no trace. Someone felt guilt along the line and just wanted to spill, but thought against it at the last minute. This explains the police station visitor. I feel this is the most likely scenario, as I feel we would know about any online communications between Andrew and a stranger.


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Nah, I'm not really buying that scenario. You have to make one too many assumptions. 1. That no one talked after his incident, 2. That no one else witnessed Andrew and 3. That a kid like Andrew would've fallen in with the drug scene. However, if Andrew had been lured to London by a lone predator that would explain why he disappeared as soon as he got there and why there's been no leads ever since.

 

[samwilzrhcp]

Nah, I'm not really buying that scenario. You have to make one too many assumptions. 1. That no one talked after his incident, 2. That no one else witnessed Andrew and 3. That a kid like Andrew would've fallen in with the drug scene. However, if Andrew had been lured to London by a lone predator that would explain why he disappeared as soon as he got there and why there's been no leads ever since.

I just think if that was the case there would be some sort of trace. Internet, phone calls etc. As smart as he was portrayed to be, I very much doubt he would be able to delete all traces of history off his home computer.


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[Farley]

I just think if that was the case there would be some sort of trace. Internet, phone calls etc. As smart as he was portrayed to be, I very much doubt he would be able to delete all traces of history off his home computer.


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This is why I believe he was groomed by someone known to him IRL.

I also don't think he would have been capable of removing his internet activity well enough to avoid forensic detection. Especially given they only had a PC for a short while before he vanished and his dad has said he showed no interest. So he would have had to learn how to avoid police detection in a few weeks whilst pretending to his parents and family he wasn't remotely interested in the PC.

Do we know how it came to be that his parents weren't informed of him not being at school? His dad said (I believe I've read this in an interview) that there was a mix up with the phone numbers. Surely if the school called someone and said oh your son Andrew Gosden isn't in school the person speaking would say sorry that's not my child. Which obviously means the school would have instantly known there was a mix up with the numbers and they had called the wrong people.

Maybe the person grooming him had access to the school records so was able to cause the mix up of the numbers giving him/her self more time.

I think the walking home from school is also significant because it was apparently out of character. Perfect time to arrange your trip to London with whoever you're going with. He could have just been avoiding bullies though.

It's almost 10 years since he vanished. Hoping against hope someone finds their conscious and comes forward.

 

[ekardh]

I just think if that was the case there would be some sort of trace. Internet, phone calls etc. As smart as he was portrayed to be, I very much doubt he would be able to delete all traces of history off his home computer.

What about computers at the school or the local library? He also took his PSP which has chat features.

I actually agree with Farley, and I'd go one step further and say it was most likely a family-friend or relative.

 

[Farley]

What about computers at the school or the local library? He also took his PSP which has chat features.

I actually agree with Farley, and I'd go one step further and say it was most likely a family-friend or relative.

I believe they were also checked.

His PSP dos have chat but there weren't very many wifi hot spots then.

I'm not sure how PSP's work. They have they box so have the serial number and MAC address etc. I had a PSP back then but can't remember if the cache or chats were saved to sony's server (I know we talked about this a few pages back). If that's the case then I imagine the police checked them. It is of course possible be used a third party app or the browser etc.

I agree I think whoever has done this is know to the Gosden family.

Again, just my personal opinion. I've already mentioned the numerous reasons why I lean towards thinking this.

 

[samwilzrhcp]

I believe they were also checked.

His PSP dos have chat but there weren't very many wifi hot spots then.

I'm not sure how PSP's work. They have they box so have the serial number and MAC address etc. I had a PSP back then but can't remember if the cache or chats were saved to sony's server (I know we talked about this a few pages back). If that's the case then I imagine the police checked them. It is of course possible be used a third party app or the browser etc.

I agree I think whoever has done this is know to the Gosden family.

Again, just my personal opinion. I've already mentioned the numerous reasons why I lean towards thinking this.

Again, surely there would be some sort of trace if he was being groomed offline, phone calls? Letters? He didn't have a mobile phone according to his parents, unless he did without them knowing, maybe someone gave him one? If that was the case then it would have to have been someone local. Personally I think if he DID go to London to meet somebody down there, then it must be have been family or a family friend. What i find odd is that Andrew did have family down that way, but since day one it's never really been taken into consideration that he could have gone to visit or something along those lines, his Dad just sort of dismissed them at the start. I'm not saying they are directly involved, but surely it's a line of enquiry the investigators should have taken? Unless I missed something.




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[Farley]

Again, surely there would be some sort of trace if he was being groomed offline, phone calls? Letters? He didn't have a mobile phone according to his parents, unless he did without them knowing, maybe someone gave him one? If that was the case then it would have to have been someone local. Personally I think if he DID go to London to meet somebody down there, then it must be have been family or a family friend. What i find odd is that Andrew did have family down that way, but since day one it's never really been taken into consideration that he could have gone to visit or something along those lines, his Dad just sort of dismissed them at the start. I'm not saying they are directly involved, but surely it's a line of enquiry the investigators should have taken? Unless I missed something.




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His dad was on an episode of Panorama a few months ago. He said when they first found out Andrew was missing and had gone to London he just assumed he had gone to see family. But most news articles don't mention it. He seemingly had quite a lot of family in London and had spent a lot of time there.

So I assume the police have looked into this and dismissed it. But then besides the CCTV from kings x there has been no leads at all so maybe they had to dismiss it due to that.

It could be that someone gave him a cheap payg phone. It could be that it was someone he knew in person. No need for phone calls when you seen someone regularly.

The phone records at the house were checked and there was nothing out of the ordinary so he wasn't calling anyone via the hous phone or receiving calls via the house phone either. Not someone the family didn't know anyway.

I also lean towards thinking he didn't accept the return ticket because whoever it was said they'd bring him home. Which to me just leans even more towards it being someone he knows. Because he could easily explain to his parents turning up with a family friend (I don't think they intended to say he'd been to London. Just it's easy enough to say oh I saw X on the way home from school and got a lift or something along those lines) than it would be if he turned up with a perfect stranger.

I wonder if the police have looked into the family in London or those working at the school at the time. They've handled this case so badly it really wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't bothered.

 

[samwilzrhcp]

His dad was on an episode of Panorama a few months ago. He said when they first found out Andrew was missing and had gone to London he just assumed he had gone to see family. But most news articles don't mention it. He seemingly had quite a lot of family in London and had spent a lot of time there.

So I assume the police have looked into this and dismissed it. But then besides the CCTV from kings x there has been no leads at all so maybe they had to dismiss it due to that.

It could be that someone gave him a cheap payg phone. It could be that it was someone he knew in person. No need for phone calls when you seen someone regularly.

The phone records at the house were checked and there was nothing out of the ordinary so he wasn't calling anyone via the hous phone or receiving calls via the house phone either. Not someone the family didn't know anyway.

I also lean towards thinking he didn't accept the return ticket because whoever it was said they'd bring him home. Which to me just leans even more towards it being someone he knows. Because he could easily explain to his parents turning up with a family friend (I don't think they intended to say he'd been to London. Just it's easy enough to say oh I saw X on the way home from school and got a lift or something along those lines) than it would be if he turned up with a perfect stranger.

I wonder if the police have looked into the family in London or those working at the school at the time. They've handled this case so badly it really wouldn't surprise me if they hadn't bothered.

So if Andrew wasn't talking to anybody online, and was not using the house phone then who ever he was talking to must have been someone local. Someone he was able to meet up with in person? It was reported that Andrew did not get the school bus back home for a couple of days before he went missing, and it is understood that Andrew didn't have much in the way of friends, so who would he know who he could trust? A teacher? Surely all teachers were spoken to? but as you pointed out South Yorkshire police handled this case so badly, so who knows?
Sadly i think the only way this case is going to reach some sort of conclusion is when someone finally comes forward with information. Hopefully with Andrew's disappearance approaching the 10 year anniversary, another mass appeal could be on the cards, Crimewatch maybe?