GUILTY AZ - Madeline 'Maddie' Jones, 19 & William Jones-Gouchenour, 9 mos, found safe, Mesa, 15 Jun 2017

[MOTORUNNER]

And therein lies the reason she can't be found. I'm still for Maddie. The boy/man has no idea about taking care of a baby. Shane on him and especially shame on his mother.

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I totally agree with you. I feel terrible for Maddie and I hope they are safe. I have had way too much experience with manipulative men (claiming their ex's/wives/girlfriends are crazy, when really it's all because of the man's abusive behavior.) I know for a fact if I had a child with one of my ex's I would have ran away and never came home either.

 

[creepcrusher]

We do pose our opinions based on experiences in the past.

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I agree. I've known of crazy abusive ex husbands and I've known of crazy lying ex wives. I think it's easier for me to identify with the woman because I am one. I just hope that both baby and mom are safe and that the baby will end up wherever is the safest place for him.

 

[Davia18]

I normally don't chime in here but I'm going to. Breaking the law is breaking the law. She's wrong end of story. It took me over $15 thousand dollars and over a year to get sole custody of my children. I would have loved to run but that's just not ok. My ex due to physical and verbal abuse, all documented through the court system ( also here in Arizona ). We went from joint custody to him having 4 hours every other Saturday and Sunday supervised visitation. He messed that up also, because bad people are bad people and true colors will be shown. After 5 months of that and once again back in court I was awarded sole custody. I now have a harassment injunction against him for me and my kids. They have not heard from him since Nov 2016. They are 12 and 13 now but when I escaped they where 6 and 7. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The judge didn't make this easy for either of them and that was his point, he gave them both a chance prove themselves or hang themselves ( my judge did the same ) and my ex hung himself just as she is doing. Of course all just my experience and my opinion.

 

[Davia18]

<modsnip>

There is a chance that could happen to me still but I stay put and I now carry. I'm very aware of my surroundings. The last call I got from my ex he told me he was going to get me. The court wouldn't allow a protection order because he didn't cause me physical harm ( yet ). My ex did abuse me and he was arrested more than once for it. He for a fact threatened my life and my kids. Did you read the entire 29 page divorce decree. IMO and from my experience they are both very immature and both self centered NO ONE is thinking about the child IMO.

 

[creepcrusher]

There is a chance that could happen to me still but I stay put and I now carry. I'm very aware of my surroundings. The last call I got from my ex he told me he was going to get me. The court wouldn't allow a protection order because he didn't cause me physical harm ( yet ). My ex did abuse me and he was arrested more than once for it. He for a fact threatened my life and my kids. Did you read the entire 29 page divorce decree. IMO and from my experience they are both very immature and both self centered NO ONE is thinking about the child IMO.

I agree that they do both seem very immature. I'm just concerned that she may not have ran off. It's possible somebody harmed her and took the baby across the country.

 

[Davia18]

I agree that they do both seem very immature. I'm just concerned that she may not have ran off. It's possible somebody harmed her and took the baby across the country.

I believe her family is helping her hide. I feel they are still right here in Arizona. She should have stayed put and did everything the judge asked. Sent every single email asked of her, read the book(s), took the class. If really is what she claims he'd mess up and probably not do half the judge asked him too. ( which is exactly what happened in my case) I did everything ordered and I was patient and it paid off. It's a long process and it's hard but it's worth it in the end. Once you involve the courts you play their game and do it well and do everything your told for your child and in the end you'll come out on top.
Is there rare cases that end in tragedy, sadly yes and just don't feel this is one of those cases. Hope I'm right for the baby's sake and really hope they both start taking this parenting very serious for their son's sake.

 

[missgulfsouth]

i disagree. sometimes fathers take mothers to court because mothers are controlling themselves and interfere or prohibit a man from seeing his kids. I surely hope she and the baby are safe rather than the alternative but her behavior is abhorrent and selfish if she took off w that kid after making all those accusations. I am thinking he wanted rights to his kid. she now has lost custody because she may have left w the child and continual accusations.

Absolutely!

 

[missgulfsouth]

I believe her family is helping her hide. I feel they are still right here in Arizona. She should have stayed put and did everything the judge asked. Sent every single email asked of her, read the book(s), took the class. If really is what she claims he'd mess up and probably not do half the judge asked him too. ( which is exactly what happened in my case) I did everything ordered and I was patient and it paid off. It's a long process and it's hard but it's worth it in the end. Once you involve the courts you play their game and do it well and do everything your told for your child and in the end you'll come out on top.
Is there rare cases that end in tragedy, sadly yes and just don't feel this is one of those cases. Hope I'm right for the baby's sake and really hope they both start taking this parenting very serious for their son's sake.

You did the hard, grown up thing to do by following legal procedures. I agree with all of this. ^^^

 

[cvaldez1975]

i went through my share of drama w my ex husband. looking back, I am embarrassed by some of my behavior. but he was no prize at the time. we are civil now.

we stay going through it with my husband's ex, I see her behavior first hand and have dealt w her myself so he isn't lying about her cray.

I cant get a read on this one. I am on the fence. idk if harm came to her or if she fled.

I agree. I've known of crazy abusive ex husbands and I've known of crazy lying ex wives. I think it's easier for me to identify with the woman because I am one. I just hope that both baby and mom are safe and that the baby will end up wherever is the safest place for him.

 

[cvaldez1975]

exactly! jump through all their hoops.

I believe her family is helping her hide. I feel they are still right here in Arizona. She should have stayed put and did everything the judge asked. Sent every single email asked of her, read the book(s), took the class. If really is what she claims he'd mess up and probably not do half the judge asked him too. ( which is exactly what happened in my case) I did everything ordered and I was patient and it paid off. It's a long process and it's hard but it's worth it in the end. Once you involve the courts you play their game and do it well and do everything your told for your child and in the end you'll come out on top.
Is there rare cases that end in tragedy, sadly yes and just don't feel this is one of those cases. Hope I'm right for the baby's sake and really hope they both start taking this parenting very serious for their son's sake.

 

[msphilosopher]

This is such a hard case [emoji848]


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[creepcrusher]

i went through my share of drama w my ex husband. looking back, I am embarrassed by some of my behavior. but he was no prize at the time. we are civil now.

we stay going through it with my husband's ex, I see her behavior first hand and have dealt w her myself so he isn't lying about her cray.

I cant get a read on this one. I am on the fence. idk if harm came to her or if she fled.

We were friends with a couple who divorced and the wife turned into a psycho crazy liar. I wrote a letter to the court in support of the poor husband because he was such a loving father and was more involved in the kids lives than she ever was.

It was only about winning for her. She moved out of state and tried to take the kids with her. The judge ended up ruling in the father's favor. BUT all cases are different and I am also on the fence with this one.

 

[cvaldez1975]

yes, that's how my step kids mom is too. all about control and winning.

We were friends with a couple who divorced and the wife turned into a psycho crazy liar. I wrote a letter to the court in support of the poor husband because he was such a loving father and was more involved in the kids lives than she ever was.

It was only about winning for her. She moved out of state and tried to take the kids with her. The judge ended up ruling in the father's favor. BUT all cases are different and I am also on the fence with this one.

 

[msphilosopher]

Here's my question, do we have any other proof besides her missing (and crazy accusations that both sides have made) that she has been uncooperative in sorting this out the right and legal way to do so?

She's very young. She's probably immature. She's probably been through hell and she's probably pissed her ex got partial custody so I'm guessing she PROBABLY went into hiding / ran away.

BUT the worse case scenario is that she did not and something sinister happened.


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[cvaldez1975]

no, just the court order. she pulled a lot of shenanigans in the judge's opinion.

Here's my question, do we have any other proof besides her missing (and crazy accusations that both sides have made) that she has been uncooperative in sorting this out the right and legal way to do so?

She's very young. She's probably immature. She's probably been through hell and she's probably pissed her ex got partial custody so I'm guessing she PROBABLY went into hiding / ran away.

BUT the worse case scenario is that she did not and something sinister happened.


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[msphilosopher]

no, just the court order. she pulled a lot of shenanigans in the judge's opinion.

Sigh [emoji17]

Really hoping this is just a squabbling mess of young teenagers. Kids having kids. Smh


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[missgulfsouth]

It would be beyond wonderful for her to bring the baby back unharmed.
<modsnip>
Her hiding out but taking NOTHING with her doesn't sit well with me.

So, after 15 pages of marital squabbles and drama, I still feel this is a case of self harm. I would love to be wrong, but I've always gotta be honest.

 

[msphilosopher]

I have a question for those who've been through the custody battle and cases of abdication by non custodial parent.

When Maddie left, she still had partial custody. Once she left, the judge granted full custody to Jacob.

I understand why the judge did so and I am not arguing that because it's the right thing to do based on her actions.

But my question is why wouldn't the judge rule a third party for temporary custody in order to try lure her back? Giving full custody only deepens her decision to keep hiding imo

Just curious why the court doesn't grant a third party custody or and then once she returns give the custody to the father?

I'm totally inexperienced in these matters. And I know it's probably an absurd question but just curious.

Side note, has gitana posted here yet? She has a lot of experience in custody disputes.


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[missgulfsouth]

I'll see if I can track Gitana down ...

 

[Henry2326]

The boy lives in Montana. I will bet that she isn't going to come back to hand her baby over to a guy that's going to take the kid to Montana where she can get even get close. Once he's in Montana, it will take an act of God to get him back.

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