Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[Cryptic]

While there's a possibility they are or were in or near this canyon, it's hard for me to grasp the concept. One reason being obvious, they would have to cross the main road. To me this would be the main objective second to getting to the car. Then you sit and wait, or follow the road. The second problem is the canyon itself. While it's not entirely remote, the initial mouth of the canyon is wide and then narrows, getting steeper as you go. It's an elevation of 1400 ft. It would be foolhardy to attempt going. At that point they would have to be completely out of their minds.

I am thinking there could be an explanation:

Couple starts out on the easier Maze Loop trail. They complete the hike, then decide to attempt Smith Water Canyon on the same day. As they are not in trouble yet, crossing the main road does not faze them. As some point on the hike up the canyon, they get overwhelmed. Or, they get confused and hike into a canyon that they think is Smith Water canyon. They then get disoriented?

In a place where survival is dependent on great amounts of water and shelter from the environment. the least likely scenario is a ne'er-do-weller waiting out in the dangerous desert hoping a hiker will stumble upon them. It's possible sure, but it seems quite unlikely. Perhaps they did make it to a populated area and met with harm at that point. Again though, it seems unlikely.

I think that is a good use of Occam's sharp razor. Another experienced hiker commenting on a Grand Canyon case also stated that National Parks are well patrolled and really don't have resident squatter colonies of the aggressively drunk / drugged nor the commercial pot growers that some National Forests or BLM lands do have.

 

[MerBeach]

I think someone mentioned this earlier. Please forgive if this is repetitive. I just keep thinking about areas like The Chasm of Doom in the park. I just watched the show Rock the Park on Netflix where they explore this area. I'm certain searchers have already checked this area out. I'm just wondering about other cracks and crevices in more remote areas.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VXVxiDDBJKw


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[Force Ten]

I am thinking there could be an explanation:

Couple starts out on the easier Maze Loop trail. They complete the hike, then decide to attempt Smith Water Canyon on the same day. As they are not in trouble yet, crossing the main road does not faze them. As some point on the hike up the canyon, they get overwhelmed. Or, they get confused and hike into a canyon that they think is Smith Water canyon. They then get disoriented?

I think that is a good use of Occam's sharp razor. Another experienced hiker commenting on a Grand Canyon case also stated that National Parks are well patrolled and really don't have resident squatter colonies of the aggressively drunk / drugged nor the commercial pot growers that some National Forests or BLM lands do have.

Smith Water Canyon is not overly popular. These were novice hikers and by all accounts, not familiar with JT. IMO, they found shelter in the rocks and expired there. That's the only conclusion I can come to why they haven't been located.

 

[Seajay]

Smith Water Canyon is not overly popular. These were novice hikers and by all accounts, not familiar with JT. IMO, they found shelter in the rocks and expired there. That's the only conclusion I can come to why they haven't been located.

Sadly, after all this time, that's what I think, too. They are not with us anymore. They didn't have the experience nor the provisions but be gone this long and still be with us. IMO

 

[Balboa Moon]

Chasm of Doom
Good grief-why? It gives me chills just watching that video even though the make it **look** pretty easy. Maybe they saw something like this on the Internet and decide to to go for an adventure, not realizing these folks probably had ropes, first aid supplies, sat phone, etc., if thy got into trouble.


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[GigTu]

This video of a family with kids going through the 'chasm of doom' makes it look doable by anyone without ropes or tools. I can see our missing couple trying something similar in the wrong place and getting stuck.

[video=youtube;HHQC8OmnR08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHQC8OmnR08[/video]

 

[azure]

This video of a family with kids going through the 'chasm of doom' makes it look doable by anyone without ropes or tools. I can see our missing couple trying something similar in the wrong place and getting stuck.

[video=youtube;HHQC8OmnR08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHQC8OmnR08[/video]

At this point, that's the only theory that makes sense to me.

 

[Elainera]

Wow yeah that looks very tight. Reminds of the crevice Aron Ralston was stuck in.

But wouldn't it be unlikely that both, Rachel and Joseph get stuck? Not impossible I guess, but unlikely. imo

 

[GigTu]

Well, maybe it's not as simple as that. Maybe one fell, and the other got stuck trying to save him/her. There are so many scenarios that could be possible, which is why I think their discovery will occur "accidentally" by future hikers.

 

[Force Ten]

Joseph's father is back out this morning exploring the Window Loop area.

Another video of the area.

[video=youtube;0JUctRTvWr0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JUctRTvWr0[/video]

 

[GigTu]

Temps have been in the 80s, and expected to stay there all weekend. I imagine the park is bustling with hikers for the 3-day weekend. I hope these two are found soon.

 

[tarabull]

I missed this if posted previously, I searched but didn't find it either tho that doesn't always pan out for me :blushing:

Regardless, there is an actual segment of the drone footage from above the maze...(fwiw, it all reminds me of a Bev Doolittle print...)

Snipped...

...Video from Grand Canyon National Park drones operating over the maze loop area, where the couple was said to have last been seen.

http://www.kesq.com/news/national-park-service-drones-helping-in-search-for-missing-hikers/612176700

 

[Topcat]

I haven't read all the pages yet but my question is "Was there any pings from "her" phone? I read about his but no mention about hers...thought that was unusual..

 

[Elainera]

I haven't read all the pages yet but my question is "Was there any pings from "her" phone? I read about his but no mention about hers...thought that was unusual..

No her phone has never been mentioned as far as I'm aware.

 

[Topcat]

Out of curiosity, did the Tono' Odham trackers track directly, or did they use the sign cutting technique, or maybe a combination? I have also read that the Navajo have a team of expert trackers as well. They were used against the right wing anarchists who went on a rampage killing a police officer. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/10/news/adna-fugitive10

The group had spent a lot of time honing out door skills and were very difficult to track. The Navajo police got close enough to smell them in a canyon at night, but were then pulled back to avoid a close range gun battle.

In regards to bringing the existence of ready teams of expert trackers to JTNP officials, I think it is a great idea.

Maybe this Board should encourage the National Parks system to contact the The Border Patrol, Tono 'Odham, Navajo and others to work out a plan before the next people get lost in deadly terrain / heat? I would participate in writing a letter(s). Perhaps you or others would be interested as well?

Ideally, if certain criteria are met, National Park officials request the help of an expert tracking team from pre selected and pre contacted agencies. The agencies have agreed in advance to quickly provide a team when needed. Maybe, the agencies could rotate as to who will respond first? Meanwhile, local park officials (JTNP in this case) already have a list of "dos and donts" regarding how to keep tracks to a minimum, yet also lead effective searches. It could save lives.

"right wing" anarchists? why "right wing" and not just anarchists or ecoterrorists?

 

[Mercedes]

Tricia is still accepting donations for WS; now Critical.
Thanks, Caroline.

 

[metroMRX]

"right wing" anarchists? why "right wing" and not just anarchists or ecoterrorists?

They were alleged to have links with radical right militia groups, who were believed to have been hiding them after the spree. I'm not sure how much proof of this was ever revealed if any, but that's where the right wing aspect originates.

 

[GigTu]

Two young people got lost in Joshua Tree National Park. They need to be found. Please keep the focus on finding these missing people. All help from any searching groups will be appreciated .... are they letting visitors into the park around the areas these two went missing?

 

[AffirmationChick]

Two young people got lost in Joshua Tree National Park. They need to be found. Please keep the focus on finding these missing people. All help from any searching groups will be appreciated .... are they letting visitors into the park around the areas these two went missing?

https://www.nps.gov/jotr/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

I'm not seeing any active alerts that the area is closed? I'm 95% certain there was one at the height.



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[Force Ten]

https://www.nps.gov/jotr/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

I'm not seeing any active alerts that the area is closed? I'm 95% certain there was one at the height.



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It was closed but I don't think it is anymore, especially since it's now cooling. Maybe with more hikers out there they will be found.