Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[JayFriend]

Yes. And my next question was : WHY ? Why hang her body from the pool railing ? Something important here, imo.

To make a statement? Similar to a mob execution?

 

[zencompass]

The cameras in the pool area could have been "covered" with something as opposed to being turned off.

If that source was correct in saying that.

 

[human]

I can't believe they would have an open house while still living there in this high-end home! Anyone could have come in. Someone could have cased the place or even one of his lawsuit enemies could have come in and checked the camera locations and maybe someone who came in shut off that camera in the pool area. You have to put down your name, but they could make that up.

Usually with expensive homes the only people allowed to look are preapproved. No one needs looky loos which are often the case with an open house

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

So two robe belts then ?

sure. My DH has 3 robes. The "belts" may have been used only to bind B&H to the poles, and may not have been the "weapon" or "means" used at all.

I am just grasping at anything. Quite honestly, I have nothing helpful to add except empathy and compassion for those who knew and loved these folks.

 

[JayFriend]

I am observing that the cousins who got millions are now going after the estate.

Apparently millions are not enough

Greed and ambition knows no bounds. Why do millionaires become billionaires? It's even worse when money is given to you. You always want more.

 

[zencompass]

I don't think there will be another statement from the police until well after tomorrow's memorial service.

 

[JayFriend]

You can’t just “shut off” a camera on a security system. Have to have access to codes whether on a phone, iPad and/or a control panel etc

You can yank the cable, unless it's wireless.

 

[Errrr]

By insisting this is a homicide, the family is asking for this to be dragged out in public for that much longer.

 

[Snoop Sister]

You can yank the cable, unless it's wireless.

Wireless now....never see cable ones anymore. Security companies constantly update equipment and provide home owners with upgrades. Also, if someone pulled cables or covered the cam...there would be footage showing such. Cable cameras are so last year. Lol jmo

On another note, I don’t think we will get any meaningful updates from TPS until after the holidays...I might be wrong...

 

[dotr]

You can yank the cable, unless it's wireless.

Or, as i previously posted,someone could have got into the utility room, or were there already, and cut the power temporarily, no light, no image.
While i am imagining things, will question if there are any used/ empty cups/glasses around, GHB could knock someone out, making them vulnerable to whatever.. get dragged/ carried around, something put around neck, whatever- and it is unlikely to show up in a toxicology test, after a relatively short amount of time. imo, speculation.

 

[JayFriend]

Otto, Hard to figure out the belts being used ? If the belt was wrapped around someone's neck, how would whatever belt length was left fit around the railing, and be tied to keep it from slipping off ? Would there be enough belt length ? A necktie might have worked better ?

A belt could easily encompass the victim's neck and the railing in one loop. A necktie is nowhere near as strong as a leather belt. But at this stage we don't really know if the victims were conscious or incapacitated when they were "hung". Having their jackets pulled down to disable their arms may have been a factor.

 

[Tortoise]

At least two thirds of the garage and all of the pool area are not beneath the house, they extend under what is presumably the rear grounds. I expect the pool location was chosen so that they wouldn't be heard by a housekeeper from the house.

 

[TruthIsStranger]

I would say murdering someone by hanging them in a sitting position would be virtually impossible as all they would have to do is sit up and take the strain off the belt. They would have to physically hold them down which would cause secondary injuries that would be quite evident. If you are going to hang someone intentionally you have to get their feet off the ground. Anybody that is hanged from such a low bar has done it intentionally or accidentally. Thats just common sense.

Half sitting could mean your bottom is off the ground and your hands can't reach the ground, but you could still be in an L shape position, legs out, with heels on the ground. If a rope or belt has suddenly and violently cut off your breathing, I would imagine that total panic sets in and there's no easy way to just pop right back up. Even if you got your feet up under your bottom and tried to stand, the noose may not be "loosenable" at that point, and it might not be long enough for you to stand all the way up. Suppose you forcefully stood up with only 2 feet of slack--you would strangle yourself in the other direction. By then, you may already have lost consciousness. I'm sure it's terrifying and debilitating.

 

[JDG]

Usually with expensive homes the only people allowed to look are preapproved. No one needs looky loos which are often the case with an open house

From the early reports, the realtor was trying to reach them to set up a viewing of the home. Don't know where the idea of Open House came from but some expensive homes do have Open Houses. A very ordinary, regular (even fixer upper) house in Toronto runs about $1M, so even though their home was large and elaborate it wasn't the fanciest or in the most posh of areas. It is just off Bayview/York Mills, a lovely area IMO.
Looky Loos always come, even if its to see your colour palette or your garden. A realtor will always ask for your name and phone number, for future contacts but many people give a fake name or number, esp the Looky Loos.

 

[SteveHolt!]

I agree 100% with MMJ above. Also, could the family have wanted media coverage to cease or be vague so mourning and burial under Jewish religion could proceed (since suicide is a sin)

 

[Lilibet]

I agree 100% with MMJ above. Also, could the family have wanted media coverage to cease or be vague so mourning and burial under Jewish religion could proceed (since suicide is a sin)

Welcome Steve. :seeya: If you use the “reply with quote” button that makes the post you are referencing show up along with your reply. I assume you mean MeanMaryJean, but I don’t know what you’re agreeing with.

 

[JDG]

This whole scenario is a nightmare for the family but I do hope they had the foresight to have a second, forensic autopsy given the circumstances. If they were my family members, I think I would want two opinions, one from the authorities and another from my own investigators. Tonight, the 'retired police officer' speaking on CP24 is sticking to the theory of murder/suicide, says that the police are not concerned about public safety and that it seems to be contained to the one home and the people who occupied it. The fact that they have not changed it from 'suspicious deaths' is also why he feels that way.

 

[catastrophe_]

I read that they both died by ligature compression to the neck. And it was assumed that this meant the hanging. But, it was also stated that Honey died elsewhere in the house, and her body was moved to the pool area. So, she was strangled someplace else in the house ? With the doors locked ?

AND then allegedly since there was some staff present within this household when all this happened-? Surely they would have heard or noticed the sound of a scuffle or some screaming...
Would that then make the staff member(s) implicated as an accomplice somehow? I know, that is basically a rhetorical question I'm asking.

 

[MizStery]

We're not sure the elevator is actually there.
It shows up in the house plans...which means nothing...apparently construction problems galore...hence, 20 years of lawsuits against builders.
The RE listing mentions "Potential For Elevator".

Honey had arthritis. An article mentioned pior to that she skied & was a tennis player. I would think an elevator would be helpful especially if the episodes were chronic & debilitating.

Link
5 days ago · Honey Sherman, and her husband, Toronto billionaire Barry Sherman were found dead in their ... skiing, but now she plays golf when she can, her athletic life curtailed by severe arthritis.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/12/honey-sherman-dead-death-barry-wife-murder/
:cow:

 

[Jennifer17]

AND then allegedly since there was some staff present within this household when all this happened-? Surely they would have heard or noticed the sound of a scuffle or some screaming...
Would that then make the staff member(s) implicated as an accomplice somehow? I know, that is basically a rhetorical question I'm asking.

They may not have been live in staff and were used to the Shermans being not home. It could have happened before they entered the house.