Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #2

[Grace.212]

Caitlyn seems so naive, I have kept wondering--trying to put this delicately--if she might be intellectually disabled. She just reads that way, to me. I have a daughter who is special needs and actually has a pretty high math IQ but I fear could easily get taken in and controlled by a manipulator like Boyle if not for her having a cynical old battleaxe of a mom who will always warn her about who to trust and how to stay safe.

If this is the case then surely her parents would know. Her father Jim Coleman seems not a fan of JB, maybe he can rescue her now. My hope is she leaves this Moron.

 

[keeleydoll]

I just realized that my answer below overlooked that you said JB was supposedly a practicing “Brethren.” I switched that in my mind to “Muslim” and said you are correct. So I’d better backtrack and say I don’t know. Do you mean Church of the Brethren or....?

Yes, Church of the Brethren. It resounded with me because my great grandmother was of this faith and didn’t allow playing cards or dancing... and the beard (from their pre-Afghanistan trip photos) reminded me of locals I know of this faith. I didn’t follow up yesterday but will now if I can manage the time to look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[keeleydoll]

I got to thinking about traveling to Russia and the ‘stans while pregnant. I’ve read that they started their trip in July and planned to come home in early December because she was due in January. That means CC was deliberately spending more than half her pregnancy without adequate prenatal care traveling in countries with serious diseases, not to mention her “liver condition.” Did she receive recommended immunizations and protect herself from malaria, which is very serious. Rabies can be a problem when camping, hiking, etc. Was she really that clueless about potential life-threatening problems or did she not care? Couldn’t she refuse to go on this trip?

https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/afghanistan#Travel and pregnancy
https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/kazakhstan
The other ‘stans have similar recommendations.

She was far enough along to have an ultrasound that her parents found after she disappeared, so she knew she was pregnant and chose to hide the fact. It sounds as if it must have been a first trimester ultrasound that are sometimes done routinely or in potentially high risk pregnancies. Having an ultrasound tells me that she planned to continue her pregnancy to full term. So this was the beginning of the large family she wanted.

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

http://allparenting.com/my-pregnancy/articles/946335/first-trimester-ultrasound-what-to-expect

I just don’t understand taking this kind of risk with an unborn child, not to mention with her own health. What woman would think this is OK? I guess there are others who would as mentioned in this article posted on the last thread. This woman had been through a terrible time trying to get pregnant, but went off to Iraq to do research for her book early in a pregnancy. She was told there was no medical reason not to, but she ended up miscarrying under very difficult circumstances.
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-42160056

I guess I could cut CC some slack for stupidly going to these places pregnant (not really), but then she went on to have three more pregnancies under allegedly horrible conditions in Afghanistan. Did it not occur to her that she or the babies could die during delivery? What then? The more I think about it the madder I get. Is she as delusional as JB? Is she his victim? I just don’t know anymore.
JMO

There are a large number of women who choose unassisted pregnancy and childbirth, but they are nearly always women who have had one or more uneventful natural births and most often their prior births have been homebirths with a qualified midwife. By my last two pregnancies, while I had medical care, I knew how to track blood pressure, glucose and fetal movements. Someone in a first pregnancy, without a lot of reading wouldn’t know to start kick counts at 27 weeks, how to realize and mitigate blood sugar issues, etc.. I just can’t wrap my brain around him convincing her that this would be just fine when she was halfway through her first pregnancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

There are a large number of women who choose unassisted pregnancy and childbirth, but they are nearly always women who have had one or more uneventful natural births and most often their prior births have been homebirths with a qualified midwife. By my last two pregnancies, while I had medical care, I knew how to track blood pressure, glucose and fetal movements. Someone in a first pregnancy, without a lot of reading wouldn’t know to start kick counts at 27 weeks, how to realize and mitigate blood sugar issues, etc.. I just can’t wrap my brain around him convincing her that this would be just fine when she was halfway through her first pregnancy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, home births were gaining popularity where we lived when our daughter was born in 1970 during the “back to the land” movement. I briefly toyed with the idea, but living 30 minutes over a mountain road from the nearest tiny hospital dissuaded me. Good thing. She was frank breech and we almost lost her. But of course, women have been giving birth at home in undeveloped countries for thousands of years....and losing babies also. Maybe CC naively thought she could just squat and deliver like them? Or JB convinced her she could. But it’s just hard to imagine a woman going for an ultrasound if that was the plan. There’s just something so “off” with both of them IMO.

 

[waschbaer]

My daughter definitely sees the best in everyone. She is very sweet and caring so she assumes others are the same. It confuses her a lot when someone does something mean because she knows it's wrong and against the rules and just doesn't get why people would do something against the rules. I absolutely expect she will need a lot of extra guidance as she gets to dating age. She isn't quite there at the moment. She is loyal and forgiving to a fault as it is.

Ha! Love me a cynical old battleaxe Mom! I’ve wondered the same thing about Caitlan, actually. This particular article has a few subtle points that made me question where she was coming from.
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

I’m curious whether you think your daughter would heed your warnings if she is head over heels in love. I hope so.

 

[waschbaer]

If this is the case then surely her parents would know. Her father Jim Coleman seems not a fan of JB, maybe he can rescue her now. My hope is she leaves this Moron.

You might be surprised. There are a lot of parents in heavy denial, who will even refuse to permit their kids to be evaluated even as teachers are begging them to consider the benefits of getting additional support for school. And considering this family homeschooled, there's even more opportunity for denial and masking of the problem. (Nothing against homeschooling in general, just one of the risks.)

 

[Grace.212]

Anyone know where Joshua & Caitlin were married and what religion they were married in?

 

[keeleydoll]

Yes, home births were gaining popularity where we lived when our daughter was born in 1970 during the “back to the land” movement. I briefly toyed with the idea, but living 30 minutes over a mountain road from the nearest tiny hospital dissuaded me. Good thing. She was frank breech and we almost lost her. But of course, women have been giving birth at home in undeveloped countries for thousands of years....and losing babies also. Maybe CC naively thought she could just squat and deliver like them? Or JB convinced her she could. But it’s just hard to imagine a woman going for an ultrasound if that was the plan. There’s just something so “off” with both of them IMO.

I had hospital births as well, a couple of them were chaotic . Currently data supports that in low risk pregnancy home birth attended by a trained and competent midwife is as safe or safer than routine hospital birth basically because unnecessary medications and procedures happen to save time and hours in the hospital.

PS squatting on the birthing stool with my last child was the easiest out of five and he wasn’t the smallest. The lithotomy position is easy for MDs to see what is happening, but certainly not a physiologically normal way for a child to leave the womb. We have a physiology that makes a squatting position the most optimal for our large-headed offspring to enter the world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nuff]

Anyone know where Joshua & Caitlin were married and what religion they were married in?

I think I read that it was a civic, not religious, wedding (but I could be confusing it with JB's wedding with Khadr.)

 

[bears10]

Yes, Church of the Brethren. It resounded with me because my great grandmother was of this faith and didn’t allow playing cards or dancing... and the beard (from their pre-Afghanistan trip photos) reminded me of locals I know of this faith. I didn’t follow up yesterday but will now if I can manage the time to look.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boyle, the second of five children, attended a Mennonite school but was active in his youth with both his mother’s Anglican church and his father’s Catholic faith.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...dence-gives-glimpse-of-life-in-captivity.html

so I don’t think he was Mennonite, he just went to a Mennonite school. Which seems kind of odd to me but what isn’t odd to me when it comes to JB? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bears10]

Anyone know where Joshua & Caitlin were married and what religion they were married in?

Costa Rica ... but I can’t find anything about what religion they were married in

http://www.witn.com/content/news/Ca...ys-captors-killed-their-infant-450934593.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Grace.212]

Costa Rica ... but I can’t find anything about what religion they were married in

http://www.witn.com/content/news/Ca...ys-captors-killed-their-infant-450934593.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hadnt read that article, thanks! Interesting that her Father said he wasnt sure he was going to Canada to visit his daughter because of the strained relationship, with JB.

 

[Lilibet]

I hadnt read that article, thanks! Interesting that her Father said he wasnt sure he was going to Canada to visit his daughter because of the strained relationship, with JB.

Yes, I thought it was interesting that CC’s Dad was hesitating to visit his daughter because of his feelings about JB. I think it was very wise of him to stay home, if he did. I expect that just watching JB pontificate on TV immediately after their release pushed plenty of “Dad buttons” that might be hard to control face to face. And I expect that JB would have capitalized on the ill will and provoked a confrontation as a way to alienate CC from her Dad...”Look how horrible your Dad is to me, your protector during our captivity.”
JMO

 

[Rayemonde]

. I just can’t wrap my brain around him convincing her that this would be just fine when she was halfway through her first pregnancy.

It sounds like she's always been very religious. He probably told her God/ Allah would look after the baby and make sure everything would be okay. And if something went wrong and the baby got into trouble or died - well, that's just Allah's will and who are we to question it.

 

[Intermezzo]

And here we have what most likely happened in the "alleged" meeting with Trudeau in 2006 in Toronto

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/polit...deau/wcm/0cddcccf-a0cf-4209-821f-dd3209735e43 Jan 11, 2018

Joshua Boyle’s Wikipedia edits seem to explain his alleged 2006 meeting with Trudeau

JB tweeted “Incidentally, not our first meeting with @JustinTrudeau, that was ‘06 in Toronto over other common interests, haha.”

(In 2006, At a rally in Toronto over the Darfur crisis) Boyle took a photograph of Trudeau and (Former Lieutenant-General) Romeo Dallaire with event organizers at a press conference on the crisis in Darfur in 2006 and uploaded it to Wikipedia

Dallaire said he has no recollection of Boyle — at that event or otherwise — other than from news accounts of his experience as a captive and said Boyle must have just been “a face in the crowd” at the rally. He said he had no private meetings with people and, as far as he knew, neither did Trudeau.

“There was a whole crowd there and we were very much engaged in the event and the issue of what was happening in Darfur,” said Dallaire. “Nor was there even time.” He said nether of them had staff present to arrange private meetings. Dallaire referred to it as “someone taking advantage of a fortuitous photo opportunity.”

 

[Intermezzo]

I got to thinking about traveling to Russia and the ‘stans while pregnant. I’ve read that they started their trip in July and planned to come home in early December because she was due in January. That means CC was deliberately spending more than half her pregnancy without adequate prenatal care traveling in countries with serious diseases, not to mention her “liver condition.” Did she receive recommended immunizations and protect herself from malaria, which is very serious. Rabies can be a problem when camping, hiking, etc. Was she really that clueless about potential life-threatening problems or did she not care? Couldn’t she refuse to go on this trip?

https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/afghanistan#Travel and pregnancy
https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/kazakhstan
The other ‘stans have similar recommendations.

She was far enough along to have an ultrasound that her parents found after she disappeared, so she knew she was pregnant and chose to hide the fact. It sounds as if it must have been a first trimester ultrasound that are sometimes done routinely or in potentially high risk pregnancies. Having an ultrasound tells me that she planned to continue her pregnancy to full term. So this was the beginning of the large family she wanted.

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

http://allparenting.com/my-pregnancy/articles/946335/first-trimester-ultrasound-what-to-expect

I just don’t understand taking this kind of risk with an unborn child, not to mention with her own health. What woman would think this is OK? I guess there are others who would as mentioned in this article posted on the last thread. This woman had been through a terrible time trying to get pregnant, but went off to Iraq to do research for her book early in a pregnancy. She was told there was no medical reason not to, but she ended up miscarrying under very difficult circumstances.
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-42160056

I guess I could cut CC some slack for stupidly going to these places pregnant (not really), but then she went on to have three more pregnancies under allegedly horrible conditions in Afghanistan. Did it not occur to her that she or the babies could die during delivery? What then? The more I think about it the madder I get. Is she as delusional as JB? Is she his victim? I just don’t know anymore.
JMO

:goodpost:

I agree with you. I am unable to understand the risk she took as well.
I keep going back and forth from she is naive, she was manipulated, she is a simpleton, she's just plain stupid,...
I have read she was about 5 months along when they left for their "hike" in the friendly "stan" countries. And had a return ticket for Dec, just prior to her due date.

Many airlines have policies in place regarding pregnant women flying..some won't let you fly after 28 weeks, others at 36 weeks, a note from medical doctor or midwife )
Here are 14 major airlines' policies for flying pregnant
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...rlines-policies-for-flying-pregnant/83846106/

I wonder why they never shared the joyous news with their parents? or was it JB that convinced her to keep it between them? IMO if the parents/ family members or friends knew they would try to talk them out of going.

I thoughts keep going to..what ulterior motives did JB have for going over to those countries with a pregnant wife who would not be receiving any prenatal care while away, add to that the liver condition she is supposed to have...

 

[Intermezzo]

It will be interesting to find out who reported the assault charges and how much his victims cooperated with police. If it is CC, which I suspect it is, I hope she isnt going to wait for her Man to come home.

Not sure if we will ever know.
It could be her, it could be someone who has a duty to report abuse (someone in the medical or mental health field perhaps)

 

[Intermezzo]

Anyone know where Joshua & Caitlin were married and what religion they were married in?

In 2011, during a trip to Costa Rica

 

[Intermezzo]

I hadnt read that article, thanks! Interesting that her Father said he wasnt sure he was going to Canada to visit his daughter because of the strained relationship, with JB.

He was probably so upset with JB taking his pregnant daughter to a very dangerous part of the world he couldn't bring himself to go at that time. We don't know for sure if or when he came. I think I read her mom came alone the first time...and iirc they both came, (may very well still be here) in Dec.
I agree with him being upset with his son in law. I would be pissed as well.

 

[Grace.212]

:goodpost:

I agree with you. I am unable to understand the risk she took as well.
I keep going back and forth from she is naive, she was manipulated, she is a simpleton, she's just plain stupid,...
I have read she was about 5 months along when they left for their "hike" in the friendly "stan" countries. And had a return ticket for Dec, just prior to her due date.

Many airlines have policies in place regarding pregnant women flying..some won't let you fly after 28 weeks, others at 36 weeks, a note from medical doctor or midwife )
Here are 14 major airlines' policies for flying pregnant
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...rlines-policies-for-flying-pregnant/83846106/

I wonder why they never shared the joyous news with their parents? or was it JB that convinced her to keep it between them? IMO if the parents/ family members or friends knew they would try to talk them out of going.

I thoughts keep going to..what ulterior motives did JB have for going over to those countries with a pregnant wife who would not be receiving any prenatal care while away, add to that the liver condition she is supposed to have...

I have had 4 children, and I would not want to be camping for that length of time, especially carrying a huge heavy back pack. I have a hard time believing she was that stupid. I am beginning to think she was in on it from the beginning.

Was she an only child? Wouldnt she have wanted a family wedding? Share the exciting baby news with her parents? Was she pregnant before the marriage?

Another Red Flag was she "waited" for JB when he dumped her to marry Zaynab Khadr. He probably needed Zaynab help to figure out the plan, then divorced her quickly and went to start his adventure with an American.