Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #2

[keeleydoll]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/09/justin-trudeau-joshua-boyle-hostage-meeting-arrest

“Justin Trudeau has suggested that security and intelligence officials in Canada raised no red flags over his decision to meet Joshua Boyle and his family in December....

Police have not disclosed whether Boyle was under investigation at the time of his meeting with Trudeau. News of the encounter emerged after the family published photos on social media showing Trudeau holding the couple’s youngest child in mid-December. A government official told the Guardian that the meeting had taken place at the request of the Boyle family.

Boyle remains in detention awaiting a bail hearing. The incidents are alleged to have taken place following the family’s return to Canada. A publication ban prevents the alleged victims from being identified.”


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[Datchery]

BBM

Does anyone know if there is any chance JB can be tried for treason under the Canadian government, and deported?

Well, he can't be deported, because he's a born citizen. And I think the threshhold for treason is high (as it should be). It would require proof that he was actively working against the Canadian government, I think; just having joined a terrorist group wouldn't do it. So short of a Homeland/Manchurian Candidate situation, I wouldn't think that would be on the table. But IANAL.

If the Trudeau government had so little on him that he was allowed to go for a photo op, I'm guessing that intelligence doesn't know much. Depending on what comes out at the trial, however, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a stiffer than average sentence for the crimes that can be pinned on him based on concerns about his affiliations and stability. As it is, the fact that he isn't already out on bail suggests to me that greater caution is being taken here than in the average DV case.

 

[bears10]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/09/justin-trudeau-joshua-boyle-hostage-meeting-arrest

“Justin Trudeau has suggested that security and intelligence officials in Canada raised no red flags over his decision to meet Joshua Boyle and his family in December....

Police have not disclosed whether Boyle was under investigation at the time of his meeting with Trudeau. News of the encounter emerged after the family published photos on social media showing Trudeau holding the couple’s youngest child in mid-December. A government official told the Guardian that the meeting had taken place at the request of the Boyle family.

Boyle remains in detention awaiting a bail hearing. The incidents are alleged to have taken place following the family’s return to Canada. A publication ban prevents the alleged victims from being identified.”


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I’m sorry, but isn’t JB a glaring red flag in general? Seems to me that the PM is backtracking. What made Trudeau think it would be a good idea to meet with and do a photo op with someone who was once married into terrorism? Especially considering the guest of honors former brother in law Omar khadir (sp?) was granted $10mil from the Canadian government after being released from GB.

Perhaps living in NY has made me too skeptical and untrusting when it comes to terrorism and people related to terrorism. But I just can’t get with the way JB is (or isn’t) being handled. The guy clearly has major issues and has had these issues even before he left Canadian soil. It’s telling that he wouldn’t get on a US aircraft.


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[bears10]

Well, he can't be deported, because he's a born citizen. And I think the threshhold for treason is high (as it should be). It would require proof that he was actively working against the Canadian government, I think; just having joined a terrorist group wouldn't do it. So short of a Homeland/Manchurian Candidate situation, I wouldn't think that would be on the table. But IANAL.

If the Trudeau government had so little on him that he was allowed to go for a photo op, I'm guessing that intelligence doesn't know much. Depending on what comes out at the trial, however, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a stiffer than average sentence for the crimes that can be pinned on him based on concerns about his affiliations and stability. As it is, the fact that he isn't already out on bail suggests to me that greater caution is being taken here than in the average DV case.

Given everything we’ve learned about him.. from his first marriage, to the “trip” to the stans, to his behavior upon return, I think he should be considered a threat to Canada’s security. Does he need to strap himself with homemade bombs and kill civilians for the government to see that he’s a potential risk?


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[Casey2007]

Given everything we’ve learned about him.. from his first marriage, to the “trip” to the stans, to his behavior upon return, I think he should be considered a threat to Canada’s security. Does he need to strap himself with homemade bombs and kill civilians for the government to see that he’s a potential risk?

The majority of Canadians are completely baffled at our Prime Ministers lack of judgment regarding this meeting. He has met with Boyle before, and does not seem to have the majority of Canadians interests, as a priority right now.

 

[bears10]

The majority of Canadians are completely baffled at our Prime Ministers lack of judgment regarding this meeting. He has met with Boyle before, and does not seem to have the majority of Canadians interests, as a priority right now.

Hopefully he wakes up and realizes the magnitude of a friendly meeting with someone like JB.


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[Lilibet]

IIRC from the first few articles, JB was supposedly a practicing Brethren before they went to the “stans.” I’ll see if I can find it, if anyone knows differently please correct me.


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I just realized that my answer below overlooked that you said JB was supposedly a practicing “Brethren.” I switched that in my mind to “Muslim” and said you are correct. So I’d better backtrack and say I don’t know. Do you mean Church of the Brethren or....?

You are correct. This info was about JB at work in 2012 or earlier, prior to leaving on their trip.

Co-workers said he had converted or was converting to Islam, according to a 2013 news release issued by Terry Ritchie, then the mayor of Perth-Andover, during the couple’s captivity.
“Josh kept a prayer rug rolled up in the basement of the call centre where he was an employee for less than a year,” Ritchie wrote. “He was given special breaks from his job as a customer service representative to pray at appropriate times,” co-workers say.

http://nationalpost.com/feature/joshua-boyle

 

[nuff]

BBM

Does anyone know if there is any chance JB can be tried for treason under the Canadian government, and deported?

How could he be deported? To where? - he was born in Canada.

 

[Bellbaby]

Yeah, we're stuck with the guy. Unfortunately

 

[Lilibet]

I got to thinking about traveling to Russia and the ‘stans while pregnant. I’ve read that they started their trip in July and planned to come home in early December because she was due in January. That means CC was deliberately spending more than half her pregnancy without adequate prenatal care traveling in countries with serious diseases, not to mention her “liver condition.” Did she receive recommended immunizations and protect herself from malaria, which is very serious. Rabies can be a problem when camping, hiking, etc. Was she really that clueless about potential life-threatening problems or did she not care? Couldn’t she refuse to go on this trip?

https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/afghanistan#Travel and pregnancy
https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/kazakhstan
The other ‘stans have similar recommendations.

She was far enough along to have an ultrasound that her parents found after she disappeared, so she knew she was pregnant and chose to hide the fact. It sounds as if it must have been a first trimester ultrasound that are sometimes done routinely or in potentially high risk pregnancies. Having an ultrasound tells me that she planned to continue her pregnancy to full term. So this was the beginning of the large family she wanted.

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

http://allparenting.com/my-pregnancy/articles/946335/first-trimester-ultrasound-what-to-expect

I just don’t understand taking this kind of risk with an unborn child, not to mention with her own health. What woman would think this is OK? I guess there are others who would as mentioned in this article posted on the last thread. This woman had been through a terrible time trying to get pregnant, but went off to Iraq to do research for her book early in a pregnancy. She was told there was no medical reason not to, but she ended up miscarrying under very difficult circumstances.
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-42160056

I guess I could cut CC some slack for stupidly going to these places pregnant (not really), but then she went on to have three more pregnancies under allegedly horrible conditions in Afghanistan. Did it not occur to her that she or the babies could die during delivery? What then? The more I think about it the madder I get. Is she as delusional as JB? Is she his victim? I just don’t know anymore.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

How could he be deported? To where? - he was born in Canada.

Yeah, we're stuck with the guy. Unfortunately

Penal colonies sound pretty good right now.

 

[Grace.212]

I guess I could cut CC some slack for stupidly going to these places pregnant (not really), but then she went on to have three more pregnancies under allegedly horrible conditions in Afghanistan. Did it not occur to her that she or the babies could die during delivery? What then? The more I think about it the madder I get. Is she as delusional as JB? Is she his victim? I just don’t know anymore.
JMO

I am with you, I am now starting to think they are two peas in a pod. In this interview, she tells of how intolerable the abuse was for her oldest child, yet goes on to have 2 more whom she knows will have the same fate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/coleman-boyle-afghanistan-hostage-intvu-1.4411772

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I got to thinking about traveling to Russia and the ‘stans while pregnant. I’ve read that they started their trip in July and planned to come home in early December because she was due in January. That means CC was deliberately spending more than half her pregnancy without adequate prenatal care traveling in countries with serious diseases, not to mention her “liver condition.” Did she receive recommended immunizations and protect herself from malaria, which is very serious. Rabies can be a problem when camping, hiking, etc. Was she really that clueless about potential life-threatening problems or did she not care? Couldn’t she refuse to go on this trip?

https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/afghanistan#Travel and pregnancy
https://redplanet.travel/mdtravelhealth/destinations/kazakhstan
The other ‘stans have similar recommendations.

She was far enough along to have an ultrasound that her parents found after she disappeared, so she knew she was pregnant and chose to hide the fact. It sounds as if it must have been a first trimester ultrasound that are sometimes done routinely or in potentially high risk pregnancies. Having an ultrasound tells me that she planned to continue her pregnancy to full term. So this was the beginning of the large family she wanted.

http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

http://allparenting.com/my-pregnancy/articles/946335/first-trimester-ultrasound-what-to-expect

I just don’t understand taking this kind of risk with an unborn child, not to mention with her own health. What woman would think this is OK? I guess there are others who would as mentioned in this article posted on the last thread. This woman had been through a terrible time trying to get pregnant, but went off to Iraq to do research for her book early in a pregnancy. She was told there was no medical reason not to, but she ended up miscarrying under very difficult circumstances.
http://www.bbc.com/news/stories-42160056

I guess I could cut CC some slack for stupidly going to these places pregnant (not really), but then she went on to have three more pregnancies under allegedly horrible conditions in Afghanistan. Did it not occur to her that she or the babies could die during delivery? What then? The more I think about it the madder I get. Is she as delusional as JB? Is she his victim? I just don’t know anymore.
JMO

I think they were planning to stay. Maybe she was incredibly naive? An international flight home - close to her due date???

 

[Stunned]

Yeah, we're stuck with the guy. Unfortunately

Offer him money to go back ALONE.

 

[Grace.212]

It will be interesting to find out who reported the assault charges and how much his victims cooperated with police. If it is CC, which I suspect it is, I hope she isnt going to wait for her Man to come home.

 

[nuff]

I think they were planning to stay. Maybe she was incredibly naive? An international flight home - close to her due date???

I think she was naive when she originally met and lived with him, then married him later after his first (opportunistic) marriage to Khadr -- who wasn't subservient enough for his liking, we're told -- but after that, I think she was abused. Like many abused spouses, she lost her self-confidence and ability to act independently to protect herself and, subsequently, her children. That is, of course, only one possible explanation for her behaviour, but it's the one that rings true to me. Especially as it now seems that when she was back in an environment where she spoke the language and had family support, she has had the courage to act. (That's if the charges originated with her, which, IMO, they likely did.)

 

[MaryG12]

Given everything we’ve learned about him.. from his first marriage, to the “trip” to the stans, to his behavior upon return, I think he should be considered a threat to Canada’s security. Does he need to strap himself with homemade bombs and kill civilians for the government to see that he’s a potential risk?


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This!

If JB has a serious problem living in Canada, maybe he is better off living in Afghanistan, minus CC and the children, of course.

 

[waschbaer]

Caitlyn seems so naive, I have kept wondering--trying to put this delicately--if she might be intellectually disabled. She just reads that way, to me. I have a daughter who is special needs and actually has a pretty high math IQ but I fear could easily get taken in and controlled by a manipulator like Boyle if not for her having a cynical old battleaxe of a mom who will always warn her about who to trust and how to stay safe.

 

[Lilibet]

I think she was naive when she originally met and lived with him, then married him later after his first (opportunistic) marriage to Khadr -- who wasn't subservient enough for his liking, we're told -- but after that, I think she was abused. Like many abused spouses, she lost her self-confidence and ability to act independently to protect herself and, subsequently, her children. That is, of course, only one possible explanation for her behaviour, but it's the one that rings true to me. Especially as it now seems that when she was back in an environment where she spoke the language and had family support, she has had the courage to act. (That's if the charges originated with her, which, IMO, they likely did.)

Well, you’re very likely right about abuse and I should apologize for my critical post about traveling to these places while pregnant and having more children. I do realize that abused women think and act differently than I would. And even if not abused in the beginning, perhaps she was strongly under his dominating influence and didn’t have what it took to see through him and resist...because she was in love. He is a force to be reckoned with and he needed someone pliable who had worshipped him for years and would not stand up to him. Look at all the #metoo women who were victimized by powerful men. I sincerely hope she will find herself and follow through in court, if she is the one who called LE. Based on her comment seeming to explain his behavior by blaming their experience as hostages, I’m not sure she will be able to break free.

 

[Lilibet]

Caitlyn seems so naive, I have kept wondering--trying to put this delicately--if she might be intellectually disabled. She just reads that way, to me. I have a daughter who is special needs and actually has a pretty high math IQ but I fear could easily get taken in and controlled by a manipulator like Boyle if not for her having a cynical old battleaxe of a mom who will always warn her about who to trust and how to stay safe.

Ha! Love me a cynical old battleaxe Mom! I’ve wondered the same thing about Caitlan, actually. This particular article has a few subtle points that made me question where she was coming from.
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/10/22/caitlan-coleman-taliban-joshua-boyle/#1QRectYi6lExPxGe.99/

I’m curious whether you think your daughter would heed your warnings if she is head over heels in love. I hope so.