Gun Control Debate #3

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I must respond to this. As a person who has had a friend whose son committed suicide, everything possible was done. He received treatment, hospitalization,

His parents are the best ever. I do not have enough superlatives for them. A close loving family with extended family members that are fabulous.

Yet, their son committed suicide.

I don't know what you're responding to.............?
My 2nd ex husband and an ex BF are bipolar/ with psychotic tendencies. Both have attempted suicide in various ways.
I've had PTSD, Chronic Depression and anxiety since I was 29 (I am 57 now) and have taken meds since those diagnoses. I have VOLUNTARILY hospitalized myself twice because of suicidal ideologies. I was frightened to take a shower with shavers sitting next to the tub. I didn't want to die, and I still don't. The last time was in 1995.

If a person really wants to die, THEY WILL accomplish that. It may be a fleeting thought or a long, planned event. OVERWHELMING HOPELESSNESS, TERMINAL ILLNESS, PERSONAL LOSS. Sometimes it will change with intervention, sometimes it won't.

My opinion: Suicide isn't a gun control issue, it's a family, education, medication, and mental health issue.
IF a person is "titled out" (involuntarily hospitalized) for being a threat to themselves or others, then it's a gun issue, and they SHOULD be a prohibited possessor.

I could literally write a book about suicide with the experiences I've been through with significant others, friends and family...................suicide is complex and one size doesn't fit all. There's no way you could eliminate the uncountable objects one can use to terminate their own life.
 
The majority of gun owners..yes IMO, don't own them for the purpose of harming others. To me, when someone murders or does bodily harm through use of a gun, they are either under the influence, mentally ill or just plain evil. Someone with intent will use any means available to cause harm...not just a gun. I think there is a larger and much broader issue.

So OK in your opinion what is the purpose of the majority owning guns, if not to harm others?
 
So OK in your opinion what is the purpose of the majority owning guns, if not to harm others?

I wondered about this too - because owning one for protection purposes counts as owning it to harm someone, no?

From Pew:

Why Own a Gun? Protection Is Now Top Reason
A national survey finds that nearly half of gun owners (48%) volunteer that the main reason they own a gun is for protection; just 32% say they have a gun primarily for hunting and even fewer cite other reasons, such as target shooting. In 1999, 49% said they owned a gun mostly for hunting, while just 26% cited protection as the biggest factor.
 
Please remember if you state a fact, especially a statistical fact, you will need to provide a link to a source that backs up what you are saying. If you don't do this your post will be removed

Bumpity bumpity. [emoji235] [emoji195]
 
The only reasons I can think for for owning a gun, in order are:

1. To harm humans.
2. To harm animals.
3. Target shooting.
4. Collecting with no intention of shooting.

Seriously?
What about this: a crazed convicted felon on meth breaks into my house to steal, rape, pillage.
A gun would be for my **self-defense** and I would hope that for a variety of reasons I would be successful in defending my life.

I don’t take a gun out of my home. It’s sole purpose is to ensure that I can live in my home without being victimized.
 
Seriously?
What about this: a crazed convicted felon on meth breaks into my house to steal, rape, pillage.
A gun would be for my **self-defense** and I would hope that for a variety of reasons I would be successful in defending my life.

That counts as "to harm a human."
 
Seriously?
What about this: a crazed convicted felon on meth breaks into my house to steal, rape, pillage.
A gun would be for my **self-defense** and I would hope that for a variety of reasons I would be successful in defending my life.

I don’t take a gun out of my home. It’s sole purpose is to ensure that I can live in my home without being victimized.

OK, thanks. We have now established that you are in group #1.
 
I don't know what you're responding to.............?
My 2nd ex husband and an ex BF are bipolar/ with psychotic tendencies. Both have attempted suicide in various ways.
I've had PTSD, Chronic Depression and anxiety since I was 29 (I am 57 now) and have taken meds since those diagnoses. I have VOLUNTARILY hospitalized myself twice because of suicidal ideologies. I was frightened to take a shower with shavers sitting next to the tub. I didn't want to die, and I still don't. The last time was in 1995.

If a person really wants to die, THEY WILL accomplish that. It may be a fleeting thought or a long, planned event. OVERWHELMING HOPELESSNESS, TERMINAL ILLNESS, PERSONAL LOSS. Sometimes it will change with intervention, sometimes it won't.

My opinion: Suicide isn't a gun control issue, it's a family, education, medication, and mental health issue.
IF a person is "titled out" (involuntarily hospitalized) for being a threat to themselves or others, then it's a gun issue, and they SHOULD be a prohibited possessor.

I could literally write a book about suicide with the experiences I've been through with significant others, friends and family...................suicide is complex and one size doesn't fit all. There's no way you could eliminate the uncountable objects one can use to terminate their own life.

I can relate to your experience. I also have PTSD and have been suicidal, and hospitalized myself.

You’re right. Suicide is a very complex issue with many influences and, usually, coexisting issues.

Sometimes it’s an overwhelming impulse, too. Which is why I will never, ever own a gun. That’s my choice. If I owned one, I wholly believe I would be dead by now, by my own hand.

Gun owners with guns in their homes are statistically twice as likely to complete suicide than are non gun owners. More than half of completed suicides are by firearm, over suffocation (including hanging), overdose (poisoning), etc.

Restricting guns from the clinically suicidal could and would save lives, imo.

__________

Info from the Brady Center (downloadable pdf)

https://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/default/files/TruthAboutSuicideGuns.pdf

__________

Suicide is the second leading cause of death in the US for people 15-35. Nearly two-thirds of those are by gun. (2015 story)

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mostly-suicides.html

“Public health researchers cite two reasons guns are particularly dangerous: 1) Guns are more lethal than most other methods people try, so someone who attempts suicide another way is more likely to survive; 2) Studies suggest that suicide attempts often occur shortly after people decide to kill themselves, so people with deadly means at hand when the impulse strikes are more likely to use them than those who have to wait or plan.

“That means that strategies that make suicide more inconvenient or difficult can save lives. Guns, when they are in the home, can make self-harm both easy and deadly.”
__________

Kris Brown, co-president at the Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence about a new report regarding victims of gun violence in America: (Sept. 2017)

https://www.npr.org/2017/09/30/5547...cides-are-even-more-common-than-gun-homicides

“The reality that I have learned is that suicide is a rash act, and it's one that the vast majority of people who attempt it who don't succeed the first time actually never go on to commit again.

“That's why the introduction of guns is such a dangerous factor because very sadly and as you know 90 percent of the time an individual who attempts suicide by a gun is successful.”
 
The only reasons I can think of for owning a gun, in order are:

1. To harm humans.
2. To harm animals.
3. Target shooting.
4. Collecting with no intention of shooting.

Would more police and a massive improvement in response time to emergency calls replace the need to be armed, judge and jury?
 
Police: Florida man fires gun, scares off teen daughter's kidnappers


OKALOOSEA COUNTY, Fla. - A quick-acting father and an alert neighbor helped thwart an attempted kidnapping and armed home invasion robbery Tuesday night in Florida, according to police reports.

Alerted by his 17-year-old daughter, the 51-year-old homeowner in Baker grabbed his gun and fired three shots at four intruders outside his garage, forcing them to flee into the woods, the Palm Beach Post reported.

No one was harmed or injured in this case. The father successfully protected his daughter and himself by using his gun.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/trending-...cares-off-teen-daughters-kidnappers/645699528
 
OK, thanks. We have now established that you are in group #1.

Yeah......after being stalked by a known institutionalized madman off and on for 13 yrs who I never so much as had a conversation with.....then put me whatever category you like. Stalker was repeatedly threatening, caught outside my house, etc.

Local police took some action but strongly advised on getting a gun and a dog. So I did.
 
Would more police and a massive improvement in response time to emergency calls replace the need to be armed, judge and jury?

I doubt it. Gun control and better mental health would be more effective IMHO.
 
Police: Florida man fires gun, scares off teen daughter's kidnappers




No one was harmed or injured in this case. The father successfully protected his daughter and himself by using his gun.

http://www.kiro7.com/news/trending-...cares-off-teen-daughters-kidnappers/645699528

Police: Father Shoots Daughter During Gun Safety Lesson
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/84128643-157.html

Father shoots son, 14, dead in front of his brother and sister in accident at the 'world's safest gun range'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ally-shot-dead-father-gun-range-accident.html

Dad mistakes daughter home from school for intruder, shoots her dead
https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/10...ome-from-school-for-intruder-shoots-her-dead/
 
Police: Father Shoots Daughter During Gun Safety Lesson
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/84128643-157.html

Father shoots son, 14, dead in front of his brother and sister in accident at the 'world's safest gun range'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ally-shot-dead-father-gun-range-accident.html

Dad mistakes daughter home from school for intruder, shoots her dead
https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/10...ome-from-school-for-intruder-shoots-her-dead/

Some people just love man bites dog stories. It doesn't matter if a thousand people get shot accidentally, as long as one story has a happy ending.
 
Police: Father Shoots Daughter During Gun Safety Lesson
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/84128643-157.html

Father shoots son, 14, dead in front of his brother and sister in accident at the 'world's safest gun range'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ally-shot-dead-father-gun-range-accident.html

Dad mistakes daughter home from school for intruder, shoots her dead
https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/10...ome-from-school-for-intruder-shoots-her-dead/

That's... incredibly depressing....
 
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