Gun Control Debate #5

[Blef]

I thought we were talking about school shootings. The Las Vegas shooting I won't discuss as we haven't yet been told what really happened. It's been nothing but a big cover up by the Las Vegas Police Department, the FBI, and the owners of the Mandalay Bay hotel.

But anyway, you say gun deaths are preventable? How?

We are talking about gun control. And how many times do you want sensible gun control measures suggested.

 

[KaaBoom]

Sure. I looked it up and find that in 2017, according to Wikipedia, there were 7 deaths from shootings that happened in schools. There were 5 people who were shot, but not killed, so if included, that's 12 people shot in schools in one year in the U.S.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Lightning deaths, at a record low number for 2017 was 16, according to USA Today.

https://www.usatoday.com/amp/996949001

From your link:

April 10, 2017 San Bernardino, California 3
May 4, 2017 Irving, Texas 2
September 13, 2017 Rockford, Washington 1
November 14, 2017 Rancho Tehama Reserve, California 6
December 7, 2017 Aztec, New Mexico 3

That is a total of 15, not 12. Only one less then the number killed by lightning. 17 were killed just in the one incident at Parkland. That is more than were killed in all of last year by lighting. Your analogy is a fail.

 

[ohreally]

It says in the article that it was quoting a Breitbart writer.

Correct it does not say it is an opinion piece written by Breitbart. It would only be ones opinion that the Breitbart story was written as an opinion piece. Breitbart has the same mixed factual reporting as CNN. The paper reporting the story has a high factual reporting rating.

 

[flourish]

Report: Blanket media coverage of nationwide student walkout pushed 5 false assumptions

1. The walkout was staged by students.

2. The walkout was voluntary.

3. The walkout was not about gun control.

4. The walkout was non-partisan.

5: If you oppose the walkout, you support violence against children.

http://www.worldtribune.com/report-...e-student-walkout-pushed-5-false-assumptions/

From the link:

"Joel B. Pollak, senior editor-at-large at Breitbart News, noted “five lies” the MSM recycled throughout the day..."

Then it goes on to list the alleged lies. No other sources were provided... It all just said, "Pollak noted...," "Polluk said."

Polluk's sources were not provided. It was clearly his opinion.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

From the link:

"Joel B. Pollak, senior editor-at-large at Breitbart News, noted “five lies” the MSM recycled throughout the day..."

Then it goes on to list the alleged lies. No other sources were provided... It all just said, "Pollak noted...," "Polluk said."

Polluk's sources were not provided. It was clearly his opinion.

Bbm

Nobody said otherwise.

 

[flourish]

Bbm

Nobody said otherwise.

Regardless, it matters. Your source is not a factual one. That matters to me. Your mileage may vary, obviously.


Eta thus your source will be given little to no weight for people who care about actual factual facts.

 

[bobcat]

We are talking about gun control. And how many times do you want sensible gun control measures suggested.

What seems sensible to you may not be sensible to me. What is it you think is sensible? Minimum age of 21 to purchase semi-automatic rifles? I think it's probably unconstitutional but it's that way for handguns so I don't know why it couldn't be the same for rifles. What about shotguns? Minimum age of 21 as well? How about the young adult who wants to go duck hunting? This is where I begin to have a big problem with this kind of restriction. Also, if 21 is to be the new age that people are old enough to be trustworthy, then I suppose that's the minimum age for military service as well. And, the new minimum age to vote.

Or, would you rather ban ALL semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and confiscate all the ones that already exist?

Or is it the sensible background checks, which already is a law in my state. We can't legally sell a gun without going through a licensed gun dealer, who does the transfer paperwork and the background check on the buyer.

Here's the problem I have with any of these things- it won't solve the issue of people killing other people. It's still going to happen, and a few more restrictions on guns won't make a bit of difference, in my opinion. What's really needed is to have a way to lock up people like Nicolas Cruz, who was posting on social media that he was going to be the next school shooter. People like that- lock them up and throw away the key.

 

[KaaBoom]

You are correct, the map is wrong. I found out to day that almost if not all f the high schools in our district participated. From what I have been hearing from the ones that work in the schools, most were not about gun control. Many were about safe schools, while others were more in paying respect to those that died in the last school shooting. The schools set the rules and no students were to leave the campuses. I was so concerned for the students should they leave the campuses. I think that these protests were handled well by both the students and the administrators working together so the students voices could be heard in a safe enviroment.
I would still like to know the breakdown of the numbers. How many students participated for gun control? How many for safer Schools? How many to show thier respect for the school shooting students. How many because they just wanted to be part of something and get out of class?

Some comments from students at the protest in Roseburg Oregon, which is well known for being one of the most pro-gun areas of Oregon. They protested against Obama after the UCC shooting.

What they believe in is stricter gun laws. Several of the students said they own guns, but they want stricter laws when it comes to assault weapons.

“We want to know how many of our peers have to die before they take us seriously,” Yamashita said, referring to lawmakers.

Emily Jones added that society has turned a blind eye to violence of any kind.

Several adults also came out to support the students, including Kim Wilbur and Phyllis Finnay.

“I’d be decimated if something happened to my grandchildren,” Finnay said. “But I’m here supporting all children. It’d be lovely if the NRA wouldn’t contribute to Congress.”

Wilbur, a retired school counselor, said she was appalled that not more people showed up to protest in a community where nine people died as a result of a mass shooting.

Roseburg students participate in National Walkout to protest gun violence, school shootings _ Education _ nrtoday.com

 

[Jennifer17]

What seems sensible to you may not be sensible to me. What is it you think is sensible? Minimum age of 21 to purchase semi-automatic rifles? I think it's probably unconstitutional but it's that way for handguns so I don't know why it couldn't be the same for rifles. What about shotguns? Minimum age of 21 as well? How about the young adult who wants to go duck hunting? This is where I begin to have a big problem with this kind of restriction. Also, if 21 is to be the new age that people are old enough to be trustworthy, then I suppose that's the minimum age for military service as well. And, the new minimum age to vote.

Or, would you rather ban ALL semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and confiscate all the ones that already exist?

Or is it the sensible background checks, which already is a law in my state. We can't legally sell a gun without going through a licensed gun dealer, who does the transfer paperwork and the background check on the buyer.

Here's the problem I have with any of these things- it won't solve the issue of people killing other people. It's still going to happen, and a few more restrictions on guns won't make a bit of difference, in my opinion. What's really needed is to have a way to lock up people like Nicolas Cruz, who was posting on social media that he was going to be the next school shooting. People like that- lock them up and throw away the key.

BBM. In countries with strict gun control, minor between 11 and 17 can be licenced shooters with a minor's shooting licence and a registered gun with an adult licenced shooters supervision.

 

[bobcat]

From your link:

April 10, 2017 San Bernardino, California 3
May 4, 2017 Irving, Texas 2
September 13, 2017 Rockford, Washington 1
November 14, 2017 Rancho Tehama Reserve, California 6
December 7, 2017 Aztec, New Mexico 3

That is a total of 15, not 12. Only one less then the number killed by lightning. 17 were killed just in the one incident at Parkland. That is more than were killed in all of last year by lighting. Your analogy is a fail.

I didn't count all those, as they were not truly school shootings. Such as the November 14th incident, it didn't even occur on school property, just happened to be adjacent to a school, and it didn't involve teachers or students. You can't always believe the numbers given, without looking into the details of exactly what happened.

 

[Blef]

What seems sensible to you may not be sensible to me. What is it you think is sensible? Minimum age of 21 to purchase semi-automatic rifles? I think it's probably unconstitutional but it's that way for handguns so I don't know why it couldn't be the same for rifles. What about shotguns? Minimum age of 21 as well? How about the young adult who wants to go duck hunting? This is where I begin to have a big problem with this kind of restriction. Also, if 21 is to be the new age that people are old enough to be trustworthy, then I suppose that's the minimum age for military service as well. And, the new minimum age to vote.

Or, would you rather ban ALL semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and confiscate all the ones that already exist?

Or is it the sensible background checks, which already is a law in my state. We can't legally sell a gun without going through a licensed gun dealer, who does the transfer paperwork and the background check on the buyer.

Here's the problem I have with any of these things- it won't solve the issue of people killing other people. It's still going to happen, and a few more restrictions on guns won't make a bit of difference, in my opinion. What's really needed is to have a way to lock up people like Nicolas Cruz, who was posting on social media that he was going to be the next school shooter. People like that- lock them up and throw away the key.

You know that is not what I want. And I am not the only one who has made suggestions. We are mainly addressing mass shootings in this, however the subject is gun control. It's not just about stopping the "lone wolf" school shooter, but making guns safer for everyone.

 

[bobcat]

BBM. In countries with strict gun control, minor between 11 and 17 can be licenced shooters with a minor's shooting licence and a registered gun with an adult licenced shooters supervision.

What about those who are 18 to 20 years old? They have no rights?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Regardless, it matters. Your source is not a factual one. That matters to me. Your mileage may vary, obviously.


Eta thus your source will be given little to no weight for people who care about actual factual facts.

Are you serious? You've posted opinion pieces!

 

[flourish]

Are you serious? You've posted opinion pieces!

And I tend to be very upfront about it. And people can choose to give my sources whatever weight they feel appropriate. Thanks so much for your concern.

 

[KaaBoom]

I thought we were talking about school shootings. The Las Vegas shooting I won't discuss as we haven't yet been told what really happened. It's been nothing but a big cover up by the Las Vegas Police Department, the FBI, and the owners of the Mandalay Bay hotel.

But anyway, you say gun deaths are preventable? How?

Get rid of the guns. Melt them down. Then they can't be used to hurt anyone. Or least get rid of the assault weapons, ie: semi automatics.

 

[Jennifer17]

I didn't count all those, as they were not truly school shootings. Such as the November 14th incident, it didn't even occur on school property, just happened to be adjacent to a school, and it didn't involve teachers or students. You can't always believe the numbers given, without looking into the details of exactly what happened.

Five children were shot in that incident. One 6 year old was shot in the chest and leg.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

And I tend to be very upfront about it. And people can choose to give my sources whatever weight they feel appropriate. Thanks so much for your concern.

Feel free to give my sources no weight. I'm good with that.

 

[flourish]

Feel free to give my source no weight. I'm good with that.

Oh my land thank you SO much for the permission I don't need!

 

[Jennifer17]

What about those who are 18 to 20 years old? They have no rights?

Anyone can apply for a shooters licence with a registered gun upon attaining 18 years.

 

[bobcat]

Get rid of the guns. Melt them down. Then they can't be used to hurt anyone. Or least get rid of the assault weapons, ie: semi automatics.

See, this is what I'm talking about. When the truth really comes out, this is what the anti-gun people want- no guns at all. Only the military and police should have them, right?