Australia - 7 dead in mass shooting and suicide - Osmington WA - 11 May 2018

[alicat]

Initially the words murder/suicide was used.

Now I believe they're said it could take months to determine who the killer was.

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[Kaly99]

I'm not sure the police ever used the word "suicide" - I think the media may have just assumed that from the statements that there were six murdered and one deceased, and that the police weren't looking for further suspects.

I just watched the early press conference from the Police Commissioner who doesn't say anything about murder-suicide; in fact he sounds really careful to avoid saying anything definitive, for example "It appears that gunshot wounds are there, but I don't want to go further than that as two firearms have been located". A day later he's reported as saying "This is a complex criminal investigation. We're treating this as a matter in which clearly six persons are the subject of a homicide. A seventh person is deceased. It is far too premature to come to any conclusive statement about that".

I'd be surprised if the police had said anything as definite as calling it a murder-suicide early on.

 

[SouthAussie]

The Premier of Western Australia says it quite clearly. I doubt that he is just reading the media take on it.



“Everyone is shocked and surprised. It’s not like anyone had an inkling what was going to happen and, of course, the perpetrator is no longer with us – he can’t tell,” WA Premier Mark McGowan told 6PR radio on Monday.

“Why he did it, what he did, you can only ever surmise.”

Asked if he thought the community would ever know the reasons, McGowan replied: “Probably not.”

“As far as I’m aware, there was no evidence that he had any sort of mental health issues that could have resulted in the firearms being removed from him, so it’s not one of those situations where you could have predicted what might occur.”

The premier also met the two police officers first at the scene just after 6am on Friday following an emergency call at 5.15am.

“They did everything by the book ... they went there ready for any sort of danger and they found what is no doubt one of the most confronting scenes anyone could ever find.”

McGowan expects a police report for the coroner to be ready within the next couple of months.

“It’s pretty clear what’s occurred, but whether there’s any motives ... they’re investigating.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...uicide-could-not-be-predicted-wa-premier-says

 

[SouthAussie]

I also read yesterday, that the surviving son was in hospital for major surgery during the week before this happened. It sounds as if his parents did not go there for the surgery (maybe he is married or partnered or has another form of support?)
He was in Perth at that time, and for all we know may still have been in Perth recovering or having medical procedures when this tragedy occurred.


"I had spoken to Cynda just on last week and I said 'you're looking tired, is everything okay?'" Ms Haynes said.
"And she said to me then, oh, their son is in hospital up in Perth, he's having major surgery and that was a concern.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-...hooting-sinking-in-for-margaret-river/9758398

 

[SouthAussie]

I do not believe you will hear the words murders/suicide out of the mouths of the police.

In time, there will be an inquest - once the police have completed their investigation and an inquest can be scheduled. This will take some time. The Premier indicated that the police report should be ready for the Coroner in a few months. Inquests are like court cases and need to be scheduled into the available time of the Coroners Court.

The Coroner will make the final determination, after the coronial hearing, and call it what it is.

imo

 

[Kaly99]

So it’s clear then that the police have been rather cautious in reaching conclusions about what happened here, and haven’t yet described this tragedy as a “murder-suicide”.

That’s quite understandable - it may very well be and certainly looks like a murder-suicide, but they won't have had any forensic results back yet to show, for example, which gun was used; they'll need to analyze the phone call and to confirm that it was Peter who made it, if indeed that's the theory. And in this case, of course, there had been serious conflict with another person alleged to have been stalking one of the victims. Naturally they need to make sure there isn't more to it than appears on the surface.

I'm sure the WA Premier is a nice bloke, but I'll still take the word of the cops with access to forensic evidence over a rather unguarded interview given to a commercial radio station.

 

[MRichards]

After the Rayney affair police says jack.

Margaret River murder-suicide: Grieving father speaks about deaths of four children

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-...der-suicide-aaron-cockman/9756254?pfmredir=sm

 

[symbah]

The Premier of Western Australia says it quite clearly. I doubt that he is just reading the media take on it.



“Everyone is shocked and surprised. It’s not like anyone had an inkling what was going to happen and, of course, the perpetrator is no longer with us – he can’t tell,” WA Premier Mark McGowan told 6PR radio on Monday.

“Why he did it, what he did, you can only ever surmise.”

Asked if he thought the community would ever know the reasons, McGowan replied: “Probably not.”

“As far as I’m aware, there was no evidence that he had any sort of mental health issues that could have resulted in the firearms being removed from him, so it’s not one of those situations where you could have predicted what might occur.”

The premier also met the two police officers first at the scene just after 6am on Friday following an emergency call at 5.15am.

“They did everything by the book ... they went there ready for any sort of danger and they found what is no doubt one of the most confronting scenes anyone could ever find.”

McGowan expects a police report for the coroner to be ready within the next couple of months.

“It’s pretty clear what’s occurred, but whether there’s any motives ... they’re investigating.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...uicide-could-not-be-predicted-wa-premier-says

BBM I guess the Premier of WA did not know at the time of making this statement that PM had been suffering with long standing depressive mental health issues and was being treated as such. Its seems people around PM including at least one medical professional, a counsellor, knew.

https://www.who.com.au/family-friend-tells-who-margaret-river-massacre-murderer-was-in-a-bad-place
According to Janice Morris, who was a close friend of Cynda and Peter’s for 30 years, Peter had been suffering since the loss of a son to suicide 15 years ago.
“Peter had a breakdown,” Morris, 81, tells WHO. “He was having counselling and treatment for depression. Peter had just come to the thought that he was useless and he was in a bad place.”

 

[SouthAussie]

BBM I guess the Premier of WA did not know at the time of making this statement that PM had been suffering with long standing depressive mental health issues and was being treated as such. Its seems people around PM including at least one medical professional, a counsellor, knew.

https://www.who.com.au/family-friend-tells-who-margaret-river-massacre-murderer-was-in-a-bad-place
According to Janice Morris, who was a close friend of Cynda and Peter’s for 30 years, Peter had been suffering since the loss of a son to suicide 15 years ago.
“Peter had a breakdown,” Morris, 81, tells WHO. “He was having counselling and treatment for depression. Peter had just come to the thought that he was useless and he was in a bad place.”

At the 5th national rural health conference, it was discovered that many GPs were unaware of the protection they had for breaking doctor/patient confidentiality to have firearms removed in appropriate circumstances.

It will take the inquest to bring out the complete story.

Many GPs were also unaware of the legislation covering them if they needed to break confidentially for removal of a firearm.
https://ruralhealth.org.au/PAPERS/5_firerm.pdf

 

[georgy girl]

I've just been reading along till now. Witholding my judgements 😁 This article makes a good point IMO
"A childs diagnosis is not relevant to their murder"
https://www.kidspot.com.au/parentin...k&utm_source=kidspot&utm_campaign=EditorialSF

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[Hag]

I also read yesterday, that the surviving son was in hospital for major surgery during the week before this happened. It sounds as if his parents did not go there for the surgery (maybe he is married or partnered or has another form of support?)
He was in Perth at that time, and for all we know may still have been in Perth recovering or having medical procedures when this tragedy occurred.


"I had spoken to Cynda just on last week and I said 'you're looking tired, is everything okay?'" Ms Haynes said.
"And she said to me then, oh, their son is in hospital up in Perth, he's having major surgery and that was a concern.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-...hooting-sinking-in-for-margaret-river/9758398

Aren’t there two sons, Tom, living on the farm, although elsewhere that night? Neil who is ill and lives further afield........

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

.....

 

[inkpink]

I've just been reading along till now. Witholding my judgements �� This article makes a good point IMO
"A childs diagnosis is not relevant to their murder"
https://www.kidspot.com.au/parentin...k&utm_source=kidspot&utm_campaign=EditorialSF

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Great article. Thank you!

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Reminder: Websleuths is "Victim Friendly".

At this time AC is a victim and has not been named either a POI or a suspect in this case.. Do not accuse him of having involvement in the killings. You may discuss what he has said in MSM and express an opinion on what is in MSM (i.e. "Well, that's weird because ...") but your speculative opinion cannot include accusations towards him :nono:

Excerpt from The Rules: Etiquette & Information
VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.


Post accordingly. Thanks.

Bump

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[Estelle]

Aren’t there two sons, Tom, living on the farm, although elsewhere that night? Neil who is ill and lives further afield........

That's what has confused me. What was the name of the son who suicided 15 years ago?

 

[symbah]

That's what has confused me. What was the name of the son who suicided 15 years ago?

Hi Estelle, his name is Shawn.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/12/grandfather-suspected-of-murder-suicide-in-australia-family-massacre/

 

[Hag]

That's what has confused me. What was the name of the son who suicided 15 years ago?

I believe it was Shawn ? ......

 

[SouthAussie]

Aren’t there two sons, Tom, living on the farm, although elsewhere that night? Neil who is ill and lives further afield........

My apologies. Thanks. I hadn't tuned in to that fact.

Mr and Mrs Miles are survived by two sons — Tom, 27, who also lived at the Osmington property, and Neil, who lives in Perth.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/so...beautiful-wa-family-gunned-down-ng-b88834383z

 

[Hag]

My apologies. Thanks. I hadn't tuned in to that fact.

Mr and Mrs Miles are survived by two sons — Tom, 27, who also lived at the Osmington property, and Neil, who lives in Perth.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/so...beautiful-wa-family-gunned-down-ng-b88834383z

There’s much to get our heads around here..........

 

[Estelle]

This is what I found to be very strange:

"Answers to Australia’s worst mass shooting since Port Arthur are most likely contained in a two-minute triple zero phone call made by a man from the property where the murder-suicide took place.

“We know where the call was made from, we know whose phone it was made from," said WA Police Commissioner Chris Dawson, outside the Margaret River police station on Saturday morning."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...4zexk.html?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

Police are saying here that they know where the call was made from.

So can we assume that the call was made from the family farm?

Police are saying that they know who owned the phone.

So can we assume that it was made from a phone at the farm - a landline or mobile belonging to Peter Miles? It was probably the farm landline phone as Peter's mobile (if he had one) would have required an access code if he did not make the call himself which police must doubt.

So who made the call? A male not a female made the call.

Police are saying that the two-minute triple zero phone call was made by a man from the property. Most media articles say that it was made by a man "connected to the property"..

So which men do we know so far who are "connected to the property"?

1. Peter Miles, the owner

2. Tom Miles, the son of the owner who lived in a caravan on the property.

So where was Tom that night?

Why don't we know more about Tom?

Was Tom at a friend's place that night and arrived home before 5am, noticed the bodies and made the 000 call at 5.15am?

So the police know when the call was made.

If so, why is it a mystery? Surely the police could tell the difference between the ages of the voices of father and son? Tom was 27 years old and his father was 61 years old?

Who identified the bodies? Was it Tom?

Is Tom the one who is arranging the funerals for his parents?

Did the killer take advantage and strike that night because he knew that Tom was not/would not be there on the property at 4am? (The night before was a Thursday night but the deaths occurred on the Friday morning about 4am.)

Did Tom regularly go out with the boys or his girlfriend (if he had one) on a Thursday night and come home late?

Where is Tom Miles now?

So if the police really wanted to identify who made that 000 call, wouldn't it be a simple matter of playing the call to persons who knew the father and/or son so they could verify who made that call? Surely that could have been done in the first 24 hours. In most criminal cases, police are sure of who made the 000 call.

Also Mr Miles also had been lining up farm maintenance work with a neighbour in Osmington, and was scheduled to meet up with him on Saturday morning at 10am.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...4zexk.html?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

This is the first ie that I have read that the grandfather had actually lined up an appointment at 10am on the Saturday concerning work.

“I actually spoke to him the night before the incident,” said Richard Dosser, who lives about two kilometres down the road.

“I wanted someone nearby to check my property twice a week, or so. He was going to meet with me at 10 o’clock [on Saturday].”

https://www.smh.com.au/national/wes...4zexk.html?utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed

So as Peter Miles had lined up an appointment on the Thursday night for the Saturday at 10am, it does not appear that at the time of that call, Peter Miles had any intention of not being alive on the Saturday.

So what happened between the time of that call on the Thursday night in Peter Miles' life and 4am the next morning?

Were there any other calls?

Was there an argument with someone?

All this apparently remains a mystery until the Coronial inquest has taken place.