CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #10

[Nancy1954]

I think that your description is what is so terrifying for me. They both looked like they loved each other and adored their children in the videos and photographs. They look healthy, happy, in love, and vibrant.

Really, I wish I never saw their photos because the light of all their lives is gone and it breaks my heart this happened. I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine. Thank you for being here.

Rest assured Gingerbread7...the light of all of their lives will NEVER be gone...because NOTHING will ever destroy LOVE.

 

[Sleutherfly]

Now that I think about it are people more likely to separate in the summer? My own parents separated in July, and a friend of mine who is going through a divorce also separated in the summer. Her relationship has been bad for a long time, but the impetus was she wanted to have her situation squared away before she returned to school. Perhaps that has some bearing on the stats too?

I think couples are less likely to separate around the holidays for kids, Christmas, New Year's, Valentine's, their birthdays, etc and also not with an upcoming vacation. That may have left a small window of time for CW.

 

[Bill Carson]

I think CW knew they were going to get a divorce. He loved the girls, but in an unhealthy way. His whole identity was wrapped up in being a father. We don't yet know what caused his emotional separation from SW, or when it began, but there was evidence of it while SW was in NC. SW could see it coming.

I think CW knew that their world was about to come crashing down---they were going to lose the house (IMO). An ugly custody battle was about to commence that he probably knew he would lose, and he wanted to spare the girls all of that. Or he felt helpless because he didn't have the resources to fight it but she did.

So I think this is a case of "if I can't have them, then you can't have them, either." And "I love them so much that I can't bear to be separated from them." His attitude toward SW might have been the very same (even though he had been cheating)--I love SW so much that I can't bear the thought of losing her.

So he killed them. Grief and the prospect of permanent unbearable loss fuels rage sometimes.

I would be very interested to know if his parents were divorced when he was young, and whether there was a bitterly contested custody case where one parent did not let the other parent see the children.

ETA: I am surprised, if the above is correct, that he didn't kill himself, too.

 

[NuttMegg]

I still think he killed her first and then the babies. I know this is unpopular and likely wrong but my mind won't let me go to him killing those babies first. It's easier to believe he snapped and killed them at the same time rather than hours apart.

I think he would have had a temporary insanity defense, if CO accepts that, but in any case he would have had a certain amount of cold acknowledgement from the public for suddenly snapping and going insane. But, we know that didn't happen (IMO) because he cold calculated a way to blame her, to let himself off the unbelievable, burn in all eternity, sin of murdering babies. SHE did it, so he wasn't insane to kill her. Bad reasoning from a guy who doesn't seem too intelligent...he wiped out, in my mind, any claim to insanity.

 

[cottonweaver]

For member The Saint, re floor plan.
A few members have tried and had no luck. This is an equivalent home, again it has no floor plan.

This is from a previous thread where we were discussing the loft area sofa ( phone left there) There are some theory scenarios at the start of thread 9 as to how that sofa might fit in to a scenario.

6508 Saratoga Trl, Frederick, CO 80516 - realtor.com®

Obviously this is not The Actual Sofa.

 

[BeachSky]

Yep. He had this all worked out in his mind and then the plane delay. I’d imagine the girls were deceased a few hours either in the home or the truck. IMO they were in the home and he made sure she saw them before he attacked her.

If the girls’ bodies were in bags from the time they died until they left the house, would cadaver dogs still alert?

Do you think there is any possibility he made 2 trips to the burial place
Could he of killed,disposed of the girls in the tanks , returned home & killed her later when she arrived home. Thus she was left in a separate spot. Was it ever cleared up about the opening size of the oil drum.? It does seem like a hurried shallow burial for her. In a way I hope this was the scenario. Because that would mean she never saw / knew what happened to her babies..and it would prove his insane hero story wrong.
JMO

 

[SuperTmo]

I would live there too. I believe the victims are in heaven so it wouldn't bother me. If the murders were more violent (i.e. bloody) it would bother me more. I remember the people that lived in Travis Alexander's house and they didn't even know about the murder until the Arias trial. That one would bother me because the bathroom would just creep me out.

I could literally NEVER take a shower in that house. The photo she took of Travis before she started stabbing him still scares me. So while I’d live there, I would need to shower at the gym!

 

[Mamamiamaria]

Sorry to ask something that I might be able to research....but do the dogs indicate the strength of the death scent, or is it like a toggle....yes or no. Assuming as you referred to, that there is sufficient odor for them to reach the "yes" threshhold. Like is there a trained reaction.....YES and RECENT!!

I read a little on this subject when it was relevant to another case a few years ago.
As I recall, these dogs can detect scent from many years ago, not just recent.
As scents tend to move (think of cooking your dinner) the dogs will detect the scent at varying strengths, so like your dinner the scent may be weak in your hallway but strongest in the kitchen. This is why you see the dogs running from place to place, alerting, but then remaining in one particular spot - usually the spot where the scent is strongest.
Their handlers are talented people and can read their reactions, they don't rely solely on the alerts we would recognise.
Wonderful animals they are.

 

[Amonet]

Sorry to ask something that I might be able to research....but do the dogs indicate the strength of the death scent, or is it like a toggle....yes or no. Assuming as you referred to, that there is sufficient odor for them to reach the "yes" threshhold. Like is there a trained reaction.....YES and RECENT!!

I've never read anything to suggest the dog alert would be anything other than the yes/no toggle.

 

[mickey2942]

I don't think I could ever live in a house where something this horrible had occurred.

I don't understand how people can stay in a house where something awful happened.

 

[human]

Murdered Colorado mom 'beat all odds' to get pregnant, brother says as records show family's financial woes
Her brother

Does anyone know if these trips were free?

 

[SheepMan]

SW's brother posted on his FB page that " he has admitted to killing all my family". which obviously came direct from LE.

My opinion is that he was repeating some false media reports that said CW confessed.

 

[NuttMegg]

Do you think there is any possibility he made 2 trips to the burial place
Could he of killed,disposed of the girls in the tanks , returned home & killed her later when she arrived home. Thus she was left in a separate spot. Was it ever cleared up about the opening size of the oil drum.? It does seem like a hurried shallow burial for her. In a way I hope this was the scenario. Because that would mean she never saw / knew what happened to her babies..and it would prove his insane hero story wrong.
JMO

I know I've mentioned the possibility a few times, myself, but I struggle with the reasoning why he would kill the kids beforehand. Anyway I think the GPS would tell the tale of 2 trips??? Unless he knew how to disable it. So I have a hard time explaining why he would kill the kids first, unless he snapped at the ruckus they caused, but I do think he had researched the ideal burying spot and knew that (???) the tanks were not currently in use, or that to fill and empty them it was not necessary to look inside. (IMO)

 

[cottonweaver]

I think he will be kept on his own in prison for his safety so the jail doesn’t get sued. Prisoners don’t like child killers.

So I believe. Do you still think he will get that option after conviction eg with LWOP?

 

[Shekkiec]

Maybe LE said Chris has told us where the bodies are ? Then said we don’t have all the answers but we will get them .

 

[Sleutherfly]

If CW's story were true (for the record, I don't buy it) it doesn't make any sense that he couldn't have waited until the next day to tell SW he wanted a separation. She came in so late, he had to get to work early and the girls where supposed to start school. If he was such a loving father, wouldn't he want to see them off for their first day?

 

[Mamamiamaria]

Do you think there is any possibility he made 2 trips to the burial place
Could he of killed,disposed of the girls in the tanks , returned home & killed her later when she arrived home
JMO

I assume the neighbours camera would have picked up his comings and goings for the day ?

 

[SheepMan]

Do you think there is any possibility he made 2 trips to the burial place
Could he of killed,disposed of the girls in the tanks , returned home & killed her later when she arrived home. Thus she was left in a separate spot. Was it ever cleared up about the opening size of the oil drum.? It does seem like a hurried shallow burial for her. In a way I hope this was the scenario. Because that would mean she never saw / knew what happened to her babies..and it would prove his insane hero story wrong.
JMO

He says he loaded all 3 bodies into the back seat of his truck - so I take that to mean he only did one trip

 

[La Louve]

I'm posting some links/info on how cadaver dogs work (bolding by me in the quotes below). There is also a lot of good info about how cadaver dogs work on Dylan Redwine's threads.

From this link:

Cadaver dogs: attending camp with the canines trained to smell death

"Another search that sticks out in Hreniuk’s mind was in Slate Hill, New York. A farmer’s dog brought the body of a baby to his backyard. The farmer reported it to state police and Hreniuk and her dog were asked to search for more evidence. “We were told the body was missing a foot, so I imagined that was what we were looking for.

“It was a cold day in February, and snowing pretty heavily. I was finishing my search area near a dump that was on the farm property. My dog, Remy, showed interest in an area and finally pinpointed the source and pulled up from the snow a clear plastic bag that had blood in it,” said Hreniuk. She radioed for the police who were waiting in the farmhouse. In the meantime, Remy kept working through the snow, and found some type of patterned material with blood on it. “Since it was evidence, I didn’t touch it. The blood was confirmed to be human at the scene.”"

From this link: What Cadaver Dogs Are Sniffing For When They Look For a Body | Inverse

"Human bodies decompose in five basic stages, and each of those stages produces dozens of different odors. In an attempt to classify them, researchers from Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the University of Tennessee teamed up with the FBI to build a “decompositional odor analysis database.” In a 2004 article in the Journal of Forensic Science, they explained their process: First, they buried four bodies in graves between 1.5 and 3.5 feet deep and, over the course of the next year and a half, used traps to capture the air that emanated from the rotting bodies through the ground. After analyzing 374 samples from the graves, they found out just how many volatile chemicals the human body makes when it decomposes: a whopping 424.

Many of these scents are likely identifiable only by trained dogs, but a few will stick out even to the common human nose: cadaverine, putrescine, skatole, and indole. As Inverse has explained in the past, these compounds smell particularly rank:"

In other articles I read, it was stated that cadaver dogs have found bodies buried 12 feet in the ground and even underwater. IMO if Bella's and CeCe's bodies were put in bags, it would not have deterred the decomp scents from being left behind.

JMO but I think LE did the searches intentionally while CW was being interviewed outside the house, so as to unnerve him and have his reactions recorded. Same with the reporter's question about the shirt.

 

[bluesneakers]

Now that I think about it are people more likely to separate in the summer? My own parents separated in July, and a friend of mine who is going through a divorce also separated in the summer. Her relationship has been bad for a long time, but the impetus was she wanted to have her situation squared away before she returned to school. Perhaps that has some bearing on the stats too?

13 facts about divorce every couple should know before getting married

Couples may be most likely to divorce in March and August.
2016 research from the University of Washington, presented at the American Sociological Association, found that March and August bring spikes in divorce filings.

The researchers say it's meaningful that March and August follow holiday or vacation periods. In the paper, they suggest that holidays represent something like "optimism cycles" — we see them as a chance to start anew in our relationships, only to find that the same problems exist once they're over.

The researchers also suspect that oftentimes our holiday experiences can be stressful and disappointing, laying bare the real issues in our marriage. As soon as they're over, we're ready to call it quits.
​