Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[Marli61]

I wouldn’t be surprised if CW is already getting fan mail from sympathizers, commissary money, marriage proposals like Menedez brothers, Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy, Jodi Arias and yes, even James Holmes (Batman killer) received mail from female admirers.

We really live in a sick world. It’s baffling

IIRC he is not allowed anything in his cell. No reading material at all & I would assume that includes mail. Also no commissary. He is only allowed out if his cell for one hour a day & I can't remember what it was called. If there is a link somewhere for that I apologize for not having it.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

NuttMegg said: ↑
I'm way out of my league here, but smoke is a gas, and there might be limited, ie short time contact with that gas? With the persistant oil, under some pressure maybe that would make a big difference over the several days they were (presumably) submerged. Maybe their heads weren't even under the surface. So: how far down can the oil go if the body is submerged and there are several days of contact, presumably under some pressure?

I hope some experts can weigh in here and that this is a question that will be brought up in the trial. I think its absolutely CRUCIAL.

Would there be a possibility if they were in bags that their bodies would float? I am thinking that didn't happen because I thought it was posted that the tanks had to have the oil removed before retrieving the girls.

 

[nwmouse]

Exactly. And it makes no sense for the kids to have been transported alive and then drowned. This would be complicated and incredibly risky. I firmly believe they died in the house, and were very likely strangled.

Its the only scenario that makes sense. As I mentioned previously it will be interesting to read the toxicology reports on the girls because he may have given them cold medicine or benadryl to make them sleep and then he could do what he did and they would feel "limp" during the act, making it not so visceral.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Here's where my ignorance of anatomy comes in, but it might go into the lungs instead? Or both, if the pressure is enough, if the mouth is open, etc. Many threads ago someone posted the characteristics of the crude in those tanks, ie it was not heated. But then the source also said it was under some pressure, I think they said ambient pressure. The gas given off by the crude would probably go out of some piping, so as not to build up too much pressure in the tank, but how much pressure would remain in the product. I really don't know but have wondered that. Probably someone's oil industry wife/husband can tell us if that has any validity at all.

Yet how many times with crimes do we learn again and again that you have to be alive for water(oil) be in lungs unless alive.

 

[nwmouse]

Being an oil industry employee for several years, CW and other employees may very well have known what happens with human bodies in crude oil.

Yes and it will be interesting to hear expert witness testimony during the trial. I think the Prosecution are going to call a couple of expert witnesses.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM mine: IF they were alive when place in the crude oil tanks -- thank you for the explanation. However we're surmising that the girls were dead when he submerged them so oil would NOT be found in the lungs/air passages.

Yes, and that was also my opinion to OP

 

[MassGuy]

Its the only scenario that makes sense. As I mentioned previously it will be interesting to read the toxicology reports on the girls because he may have given them cold medicine or benadryl to make them sleep and then he could do what he did and they would feel "limp" during the act, making it not so visceral.

That’s possible, and they are certainly doing that testing.

If this was premeditated, and he had killed the kids prior to Shanann’s arrival, then I wouldn’t be shocked by that finding.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Jennifer17 said: ↑
If they were alive when they went in the water, not if already dead, but I can't answer whether the pressure of oil would enter their bodies.

Please please tell me that there is not any possibility that the girls were alive when they were put into the tanks?

 

[nwmouse]

That’s possible, and they are certainly doing that testing.

If this was premeditated, and he had killed the kids prior to Shanann’s arrival, then I wouldn’t be shocked by that finding.

I don't think any of us would be shocked.

 

[nwmouse]

[QUOTE Jennifer17 said: ↑
If they were alive when they went in the water, not if already dead, but I can't answer whether the pressure of oil would enter their bodies. QUOTE]

Please please tell me that there is not any possibility that the girls were alive when they were put into the tanks?

Oh no, I'm sure they were not. NO. I refuse to believe this, its too horrific to even contemplate.

 

[MsBetsy]

We don't really follow individual posters on WS -- we can only exclude posters if we don't want to see their posts.
You should get notified thru your email anytime anything is posted to a new thread you are following IF, when you decide to watch a new thread, you click on "Watch Thread," (located at the top of each thread page).

After you do that, you will get a selection option -- you should select "and receive email notifications." Then you will get notified that there has been a posting on that new thread. -- you only have to do the "Watch/select" once per thread.

When a new thread is created (mods close Thread 22 and open Thread 23), you will link to the new thread and do the "Watch/select" operations, and you are good for that thread.

So I guess that is no point in following a particular poster, as it doesn't seem to change anything? Or at least alert you to their posts?

 

[Amandaaa]

Right. But he apparently said his wife was actively strangling the 2nd child when he ran in to stop her. So that means, in my experience, that she could have been helped, possibly revived, with some intense medical efforts to do so. Why not call 911 immediately if it was only a minute or two after the assault?

Oh, I’m not saying it makes a ton of sense... or that I believe it - just that I would see it as a possible defense based on the info we have so far. He would likely claim he thought the girls couldn’t be saved, went into a rage and killed SW. Then, after the adrenaline rush subsides, he panics. From what we know, he’s always been a good guy - never in trouble, etc - he’s now in major trouble. He can’t think clearly... what does he do? If he calls 911, he’s definitely going to jail. [insert hasty and poorly executed cleanup here]
JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Oh, I’m not saying it makes a ton of sense... or that I believe it - just that I would see it as a possible defense based on the info we have so far. He would likely claim he thought the girls couldn’t be saved, went into a rage and killed SW. Then, after the adrenaline rush subsides, he panics. From what we know, he’s always been a good guy - never in trouble, etc - he’s now in major trouble. He can’t think clearly... what does he do? If he calls 911, he’s definitely going to jail. [insert hasty and poorly executed cleanup here]
JMO

I think the defense will go with something very similar to what you suggest.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM mine: IF they were alive when place in the crude oil tanks -- thank you for the explanation. However we're surmising that the girls were dead when he submerged them so oil would NOT be found in the lungs/air passages.

Exactly!

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Oh no, I'm sure they were not. NO. I refuse to believe this, its too horrific to even contemplate.

Oh my, it is too much to imagine.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yet how many times with crimes do we learn again and again that you have to be alive for water(oil) be in lungs unless alive.

Oh you're probably right, but is that true with bodies that are down on the bottom for days? In that tank they couldn't have floated down and out of the oil. At first we were talking about oil going down into the stomach and tainting stomach contents. And I was just musing and wondering if the oil itself would have enough pressure to push into the stomach or lungs.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I can't speculate whether the girls were alive or deceased upon being put into the tank but ultimately the medical examiner will be able to determine this. Unfathomable.

 

[iluvmua]

I cant wait for the Dateline episode on this one.

 

[NuttMegg]

Jennifer17 said: ↑
If they were alive when they went in the water, not if already dead, but I can't answer whether the pressure of oil would enter their bodies.

Please please tell me that there is not any possibility that the girls were alive when they were put into the tanks?

I had proposed that as a possibility a ways back, but the affidavit says the murders occurred in the house. So, how do they know all three? That's another question I have.

 

[rainynights]

Ohhh, you bring up an interesting point. Why the heck was CW up and about at 4 am? His neighbor said she never saw him leaving at 5:30 am before. She said that was earlier than usual.

Why was he up so early, if he didn't know he was going to need to make that dump run before work?

BBM

Per SW's FB, there's at least one day (Monday, May 7 2018) that SW confirms CW got up at 4am to go to work.

Someone’s thrivin’...Up for work at 4am. Just got home and now mowing the grass. #likeaboss #helovesme

This was over 4 months ago. In my opinion, I'd take the neighbor's word for it regarding CW/SW's most recent morning patterns. However, it is still, FWIW, interesting to see there was at least one occurrence in which CW getting up at 4am wasn't unusual.

JMO.