Found Deceased NC - Maddox Ritch, 6 w/Autism, Gastonia, 22 Sept 2018 #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

Do we know COD hasn't been determined? Perhaps they have determined, but just haven't released to the public.

I responded to post with this article that indicates COD is unknown.

“While we await those final medical examiner’s reports, which can take weeks or even months..."

Police: Cause of Maddox Ritch's death unknown, could take "weeks or even months"

 

[heartgoesout]

Interesting article that came out today.

“The county's lead death investigator, Bill Fish, said Maddox's provisional cause of death is listed as pending. That means the initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wcnc.com/amp/article?section=news&subsection=special-reports&topic=maddox-ritch&headline=what-happened-to-maddox-ritch-still-no-cause-of-death-nearly-a-month-later&contentId=275-605349825

“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death. “

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death. “

I'm sure LE is aware that people in the local community are eager to know what happened to Maddox and will provide COD information as soon as it becomes available. It must be difficult for Maddox's family to not know what caused the child's death. Thoughts and prayers for his parents and all who loved and cared about this sweet little boy.

 

[x_files]

“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death. “

that in itself is kinda odd, isn't it?
or LE isn't ready to tell the public.

 

[Justice101]

I don't know about North Carolina, but here they do standard toxicology tests as well as the examination. Sometimes there is a big backlog on low priority cases like this where foul play is not suspected.

 

[1&2&3]

If the autopsy did not reveal enough information to provide the cause of death, does that rule out drowning? Wouldn’t drowning be quite obvious on an autopsy?

It always confuses me when autopsies come up with no conclusion. Something caused this precious child to die.

 

[heartgoesout]

“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death. “

To me, and I really am just talking out loud here with zero medical knowledge, not enough information means exactly what it’s saying.
There was not enough information to deem drowning as the cause of death. Or sole cause.
Meaning there was no water in the lungs.
Also not enough information of blunt force trauma, or gun shot or aneurism or suffocating etc...
It could also mean there were signs of multiple causes and further testing is need to narrow down.
They are waiting for toxology reports. It is possible something was ingested like drugs.
A guessing game at this point.

 

[MsMarple]

Gastonia Police said Thursday they’re still trying to figure out how he ended up where he was found and what caused his death. The department has yet to receive the results of toxicology reports or an autopsy from the medical examiner’s autopsy, according to Gastonia Police Chief Robert Helton.

“While we await those final medical examiner’s reports, which can take weeks or even months, our work continues to piece together his last movements,” Helton said. “We appreciate the continued support, patience, and understanding of our community. The Gastonia Police Department will do everything possible to learn the facts of what happened in the final moments of Maddox’s life. Please continue to pray for his family, friends and each other.”

Police: Cause of Maddox Ritch's death unknown, could take "weeks or even months"
The way I take it is the COD is unknown because the autopsy report hasn't yet been given to LE, not that the ME couldn't determine a COD. It's possible the ME won't complete it until all labs are in due to the case being high profile.

It also could be that Maddox had hypothermia and the ME wants to determine if that was the primary COD or if drowning was. I don't know, just guessing here.

I'm surprised the ME didn't release a preliminary report but that may or may not mean anything, depending on the ME and how he/she usually handles the reports.

So... more waiting.

 

[Elle*Bee]

Police: Cause of Maddox Ritch's death unknown, could take "weeks or even months"
The way I take it is the COD is unknown because the autopsy report hasn't yet been given to LE, not that the ME couldn't determine a COD. It's possible the ME won't complete it until all labs are in due to the case being high profile.

It also could be that Maddox had hypothermia and the ME wants to determine if that was the primary COD or if drowning was. I don't know, just guessing here.

I'm surprised the ME didn't release a preliminary report but that may or may not mean anything, depending on the ME and how he/she usually handles the reports.

So... more waiting.

That’s my take as well. From the same article:

“The department has yet to receive the results of toxicology reports or an autopsy from the medical examiner’s autopsy, according to Gastonia Police Chief Robert Helton.

“While we await those final medical examiner’s reports, which can take weeks or even months, our work continues to piece together his last movements,” Helton said.”

 

[heartgoesout]

Just my opinion but there is no way the medical examiner has a good idea or a preliminary cause of death and LE has not "received" it.

 

[MsMarple]

Just my opinion but there is no way the medical examiner has a good idea or a preliminary cause of death and LE has not "received" it.

I'm feeling stupid here but are you saying that in your opinion the ME does not have an idea or a preliminary cause of death report and LE has received it?

IOW, Maddox' COD remains undetermined and LE knows it? I want to make sure I'm understanding your comment. If I have it straight then what do you think is going on? I have some thoughts too but am waiting for a little more information from LE. I really hope this was a tragic accident but the longer we all sit in limbo the more it looks like something else.

 

[heartgoesout]

oh no MsMarple don't feel stupid! This is a tough case!
In your post above you said from reading an article "The way I take it is the COD is unknown because the autopsy report hasn't yet been given to LE, not that the ME couldn't determine a COD."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording? Are you saying ME knows but hasn't turned finding to LE?

To answer your question, I'm saying imo, if the ME has a preliminary idea of the COD, he/she certainly has communicated that opinion to LE. I don't think LE is in the dark. I picture them checking in several times a day. So I do believe LE knows something but they need to know more.

From the article I posted...“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death." To me, this does not mean they do not have any idea, it just means they need more information to be sure. But certainly the ME has told LE what it DID reveal.

I have repeated this over and over slowly until it sank through for me and I really thought about it. “The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death." So maybe the question isn't what it didn't reveal but rather what it did reveal.

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm trying to understand toxicology tests. Can anyone find an article to link about what else other than drugs would a toxicology test for. Every article I find makes it seems like only drugs aka toxins are tested. So why a toxicology on a 6 year old unless drug ingestion is suspected?
Someone mentioned the creek water. Could it be to test if there where toxins in the water he potentially drank that killed him? What else could be considered a toxin?

 

[MsMarple]

oh no MsMarple don't feel stupid! This is a tough case!
In your post above you said from reading an article "The way I take it is the COD is unknown because the autopsy report hasn't yet been given to LE, not that the ME couldn't determine a COD."
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording? Are you saying ME knows but hasn't turned finding to LE?

To answer your question, I'm saying imo, if the ME has a preliminary idea of the COD, he/she certainly has communicated that opinion to LE. I don't think LE is in the dark. I picture them checking in several times a day. So I do believe LE knows something but they need to know more.

From the article I posted...“The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death." To me, this does not mean they do not have any idea, it just means they need more information to be sure. But certainly the ME has told LE what it DID reveal.

I have repeated this over and over slowly until it sank through for me and I really thought about it. “The initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death." So maybe the question isn't what it didn't reveal but rather what it did reveal.

Thank you. I was not as clear as I could have been. What I meant was that based on my linked article we don't know if the ME has a COD or not right now and it's LE who doesn't know the COD only because the ME hasn't released the autopsy report to them yet - not that the ME can't find the COD.

Clear as mud, huh? I think what you're saying is that you believe LE has been apprised of a preliminary COD from the ME but are not telling the public right now.

And that very well may be. One thought from reading my linked article that crossed my mind was that Maddox could have suffered from hypothermia due to his being in the elements and the ME might have sent tissue samples to the lab to determine the severity.

I think the difference lies in our links. I see the quote you refer to:

The county's lead death investigator, Bill Fish, said Maddox's provisional cause of death is listed as pending. That means the initial examination did not reveal enough information to provide an adequate cause of death.

Fish said they're awaiting lab test results before issuing a final cause and manner of death. On average, that could take two to three months -- possibly longer.

which is slightly different from the article I read:

Gastonia Police said Thursday they’re still trying to figure out how he ended up where he was found and what caused his death. The department has yet to receive the results of toxicology reports or an autopsy from the medical examiner’s autopsy, according to Gastonia Police Chief Robert Helton.

which didn't mention any provisional finding, so just interpretations from different msm. I think we're pretty much on the same page though.

 

[heartgoesout]

Yes two different articles was the confusion. The one I posted quoted the lead investigator who said it’s pending meaning not enough info. So it could be no sign of drowning. Or does it? And wouldn’t the autopsy show hypothermia? (Just using that as an example). I’m so confused.

 

[heartgoesout]

Now I’m reading up on hypothermia. I don’t think the outside temperature or water temperature was cold enough to cause death?

 

[Alethea]

The last time I saw something like this happen was Meghan Cordie, a young woman in Oregan who disappeared after a wedding she attended with her mom. Her mom said she walked off after an argument but they found her body down an embankment and said she died from blunt force trauma but did not release manner of death or details for weeks.

Eventually the DA held a press conference to announce that she died from injuries falling out of a moving car at a high rate of speed and hitting the guard rail, severing her aorta. They said the ME determined the cause of death was accidental as she appeared to have accidentally fell or jumped out of the car and the only other adult was driving (so they could not have pushed her). The DA said he was incredibly frustrated that he could not bring charges as the acts that led to her death did not fit all of the elements of any crime in the state.

Meighan Cordie fell or jumped from moving car

I want to be clear I am bringing up that case JUST for how LE, the ME, and the DA all worked on the investigation without releasing much if anything to the public until the case was closed and the DA made a formal statement about no charges being brought.

 

[Vail]

I'm trying to understand toxicology tests. Can anyone find an article to link about what else other than drugs would a toxicology test for. Every article I find makes it seems like only drugs aka toxins are tested. So why a toxicology on a 6 year old unless drug ingestion is suspected?
Someone mentioned the creek water. Could it be to test if there where toxins in the water he potentially drank that killed him? What else could be considered a toxin?

sumac, holly berries, hemlock, hogweed, anything poisonous he could have touched or ingested in the park or surrounding area maybe?

 

[Gardener1850]

I said it in one of the previous threads, but I think it is worth repeating: often, when there is significant decomposition, drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion. They have to rule everything else out first.
Here is a good read on the subject:
Immersion deaths and drowning: issues arising in the investigation of bodies recovered from water

Maddox was not found for nearly a week -- 6 days. And it was still warm weather during the days he was missing. There could have been significant decomp and possibly animal activity by the time he was found. JMO.
As for it taking weeks or months to finalize a cause of death-- not unusual in my opinion based on observations of other cases on this board.

Jake Wilson (also autistic) was found in a river Aug 16, over two months later we don't have cause of death: Found Deceased - IA - Jake Wilson, 16, La Porte City, 07 Apr 2018 *autistic*

Timothy Cunningham drowned (suicide). His body was ID'd on Apr 5th, They gave a preliminary cause of drowning but had to wait on toxicology. Official cause of death and toxicology took over a month and was reported in press May 24: Found Deceased - GA - Timothy Cunningham, 35, Chamblee, 12 Feb 2018 #2

Blake Smith accidentally drowned after he sustained a head injury from a car accident. He went missing Feb 3rd and found only 2 days later. The autopsy was done on Feb 6th but it was not complete and released to the public until Feb 27th: Found Deceased - TN - Blake Smith, 20, Knoxville, 3 Feb 2018

Denise Martin drowned (suicide). She was found about a week after she went missing in June. Official cause of death was not released until Sept 24th:
Found Deceased - Va - Denise Martin, 22, Virginia Beach, 19 June 2018

In all of the above cases posters continued to speculate that a delay in reporting the autopsy was somehow suspicious or indicated foul play may have occurred. There were crazy government conspiracy theories about Timothy Cunningham's death. There were people suspecting Blake Smith was rebellious and killed by a lover (no one else was involved and he was a good kid with no drugs in his system). After Denise was found people were still posting theories about how she might have been abducted. None of the cases turned out to be suspicious (not including Jake who we are still waiting on but no mention of foul play has been made by authorities-- and in that case as well people continue to give a side-eye to the parents).

My opinion only, of course, but based on all of the above cases I have come to believe that a lack of info does not equal suspicion. If anything, it may indicate the opposite. If there were any preliminary signs of foul play they would be making more pleas to the public for tips and info or making moves towards an arrest. There have not been any new requests for tips since the presser where they ID'd Maddox. On Oct 3rd they thanked the public for their help and said they had a timeline and evidence Maddox was in the park and said they awaited autopsy results: Gastonia Police Department
On Oct 18th they thanked the public for being patient and again reiterated they are waiting on the autopsy and toxicology:
Gastonia Police Department

This is a child, so emotions are high. But if LE have no clear COD from the prelim, they have to do their due diligence and wait for toxicology before ruling it either accidental or suspicious. To make any kind of statement without clear evidence would be irresponsible and could damage the public trust if they ended up being wrong. JMO.

 

[Alethea]

I said it in one of the previous threads, but I think it is worth repeating: often, when there is significant decomposition, drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion. They have to rule everything else out first.
Here is a good read on the subject:
Immersion deaths and drowning: issues arising in the investigation of bodies recovered from water

Maddox was not found for nearly a week -- 6 days. And it was still warm weather during the days he was missing. There could have been significant decomp and possibly animal activity by the time he was found. JMO.
As for it taking weeks or months to finalize a cause of death-- not unusual in my opinion based on observations of other cases on this board.

Jake Wilson (also autistic) was found in a river Aug 16, over two months later we don't have cause of death: Found Deceased - IA - Jake Wilson, 16, La Porte City, 07 Apr 2018 *autistic*

Timothy Cunningham drowned (suicide). His body was ID'd on Apr 5th, They gave a preliminary cause of drowning but had to wait on toxicology. Official cause of death and toxicology took over a month and was reported in press May 24: Found Deceased - GA - Timothy Cunningham, 35, Chamblee, 12 Feb 2018 #2

Blake Smith accidentally drowned after he sustained a head injury from a car accident. He went missing Feb 3rd and found only 2 days later. The autopsy was done on Feb 6th but it was not complete and released to the public until Feb 27th: Found Deceased - TN - Blake Smith, 20, Knoxville, 3 Feb 2018

Denise Martin drowned (suicide). She was found about a week after she went missing in June. Official cause of death was not released until Sept 24th:
Found Deceased - Va - Denise Martin, 22, Virginia Beach, 19 June 2018

In all of the above cases posters continued to speculate that a delay in reporting the autopsy was somehow suspicious or indicated foul play may have occurred. There were crazy government conspiracy theories about Timothy Cunningham's death. There were people suspecting Blake Smith was rebellious and killed by a lover (no one else was involved and he was a good kid with no drugs in his system). After Denise was found people were still posting theories about how she might have been abducted. None of the cases turned out to be suspicious (not including Jake who we are still waiting on but no mention of foul play has been made by authorities-- and in that case as well people continue to give a side-eye to the parents).

My opinion only, of course, but based on all of the above cases I have come to believe that a lack of info does not equal suspicion. If anything, it may indicate the opposite. If there were any preliminary signs of foul play they would be making more pleas to the public for tips and info or making moves towards an arrest. There have not been any new requests for tips since the presser where they ID'd Maddox. On Oct 3rd they thanked the public for their help and said they had a timeline and evidence Maddox was in the park and said they awaited autopsy results: Gastonia Police Department
On Oct 18th they thanked the public for being patient and again reiterated they are waiting on the autopsy and toxicology:
Gastonia Police Department

This is a child, so emotions are high. But if LE have no clear COD from the prelim, they have to do their due diligence and wait for toxicology before ruling it either accidental or suspicious. To make any kind of statement without clear evidence would be irresponsible and could damage the public trust if they ended up being wrong. JMO.

I think the difference here is most of these victims are adults so toxicology tests are necessary to exclude suicide or accidental overdose. Poor Jake Wilson was just scattered bones so they can’t perform a traditional autopsy. I don’t think a toxicology test would say much for a 6 year - we aren’t expecting him to have accidentally overdosed. If there are odd toxicology results it would likely be the result of foul play. I know what you mean and we shouldn’t read too much into the silence but I do think this is different than most cases involving children we have seen lately.