AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[BeeGirl]

I would like everyone to welcome our new verified Law Enforcement Officer, Detective, Done Everything, member Falcon500.

Falcon500 is one of the most experienced verified law enforcement members we have on Websleuths.

Falcon500, I have a question about this case... Since there haven't been any breaks in this case (that we know of) do you think Law Enforcement will finally start releasing more information? It seems that LE should give the public more info so we all know what to look for.

Thanks in advance and thank you for becoming verified on Websleuths.

Tricia

Welcome @Falcon500 and thank you @Tricia for asking the question we're all dying to know the most!

 

[Falcon500]

I would like everyone to welcome our new verified Law Enforcement Officer, Detective, Done Everything, member Falcon500.

Falcon500 is one of the most experienced verified law enforcement members we have on Websleuths.

Falcon500, I have a question about this case... Since there haven't been any breaks in this case (that we know of) do you think Law Enforcement will finally start releasing more information? It seems that LE should give the public more info so we all know what to look for.

Thanks in advance and thank you for becoming verified on Websleuths.

Tricia

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

 

[carbuff]

I was dreaming about this case last night. Like I was invisible but there watching for clues.

I had a dream I was trying to break into Baba Yaga's house to get to Jayme and when I finallly got in, it walked away on its chicken legs to the tune of "Over the river and through the woods"...sometimes when I dream about a case, my subconscious is trying to tell me something I didn't notice consciously, but I can't figure out what this one might be. Maybe she escaped from the kidnapper and ran away into the woods somewhere and got lost?

 

[whatsherface]

I had a dream I was trying to break into Baba Yaga's house to get to Jayme and when I finallly got in, it walked away on its chicken legs to the tune of "Over the river and through the woods"...sometimes when I dream about a case, my subconscious is trying to tell me something I didn't notice consciously, but I can't figure out what this one might be. Maybe she escaped from the kidnapper and ran away into the woods somewhere and got lost?

if she did get away and ran. The dogs would have most probably picked on her scent.

 

[Hatfield]

I believe MsBetsy is referring to the PC where the sheriff stated (paraphrasing) he believed Jamye was in the home based partially on the 911 call. You can listen here if interested at about 5:47 in the video

Thanks for this video. Good info.

At 6;35
Question about if they expect LE to find her alive. Answer is 100% they think she can be found alive. So something they know makes them think that which is good news.

At 6:50
Question about the door and that it appeared to be shot at. No response about condition of door but the media seems to have gotten that from somewhere so I am going with that since they are right a lot of the times because media can get leaks.

So if person shot at the door lock the person may have blown the door knob or door lock off to get inside. Which is making me wonder if the person had a shotgun. A shotgun could open a door knob and door lock much easier than a handgun could. A shotgun could blow apart the door knob area. With a handgun it would be much more difficult.

Does anyone know if we have any evidence of type of weapon? Right now I am leaning towards a shotgun. I may be totally wrong and just a guess.

 

[carbuff]

The 911 info is, in my opinion, conflicting and confusing:

• They have the cell that called 911*
• No one spoke directly to the dispatcher.
• Investigators also believe Jayme was at home during the shooting based on details from the 911 call and evidence from the home.
  
• The dispatcher "could hear a lot of yelling" during the 911 call.
• The call was "pinged" to the Closs' home.
• When the dispatcher called the number back, a voicemail greeting indicated that the phone belonged to Denise Closs.

Then yesterday, Sherriff Fitzgerald says both that the call is "confusing" and there's "nothing" to help in it.

So, which is it? Is there nothing or is there yelling? If there was yelling, who was it? Was someone yelling about Jayme? To Jayme? Was it Jayme yelling?

If so, to me, that's not "nothing".

*ETA: If they have the phone, they also have the fingerprints to know who dialed it. That's significant in and of itself, but especially in conjunction with the mysterious yelling and unknown origin of the conclusion Jayme was there.

Yelling doesn't mean there's anything useful. Our next-door neighbors used to get in massive yelling matches with their teenage sons. It would be loud enough to wake us up (our bedroom is on that side of the house) but we could rarely make out anything more specific than enraged voices and an occasional profanity.

 

[Angleterre]

Welcome gipsypup!

The only gaming system I mentioned was X-box 360 with the Kinect feature. Just to clarify, I don't think Jayme was secretly communicating through something like that because all those type of communications with other players would be saved and easily found by LE-- I was wondering if perhaps someone may have hacked a camera and could have been secretly watching her through something like that (super creepy idea). I don't know that the Closs family even had one of those types of gaming systems. However, the games are not all violent-- there are many that are for younger kids that use the cameras. Here is another article about how X-box Kinect or other devices in the home could be collecting video, images and info about users:
Is my Xbox spying on me?
Although most MSM articles I'm finding now seem to focus on what info from a device in the home is accessible to the government, and not if the cameras can be hacked by someone looking to "virtually case" a home or to stalk its occupants. So perhaps my speculation is way too out there and only happens in the movies. I don't really know much about technology. All I know, is I try to keep my computer cameras covered with a sticky note and my microphone off, just in case. I saw on the news years ago about an issue with kids bringing home school laptops and leaving them open with the camera showing their entire room and it being possible for someone to hack the camera to see what their room looks like or to watch them even when they were not aware of it. Perhaps camera security has improved to close the way into hacking these devices? I really don't know...

Yes you are correct
I’ve recently referred a case to the cyber crime unit
To try and keep it brief :

A single 30 yr old gay man is home alone and puts gay *advertiser censored* into laptop to watch, and whilst doing so, commits a Sex act .

Three days later he gets an email from
Location unknown with a link .

Email content is basically a blackmail threat that they have his email and password details ( they did and they correctly quoted his password in the email ).
And that they knew what sites he had visited and listed them.
And they had video of him committing sex act whilst viewing these sites . ( They sent a snapshot of said video attached to the email).
They threatened that unless they received £16,000 within 24 hours to the account details contained within the link , that failure to do so would result in his gay secret lifestyle being revealed to all the contacts contained within his address book online with said video attached.

I cannot give more details as to what LE actions then took place but suffice to say it was a real not perceived threat and we all need to cover the pinpoint cameras on our devices with a little bit of paper over it when not in use to prevent this kind of cyber spying.

 

[cluciano63]

If all of LE could not find anything to advance the case on the 911 call...we sure won’t.

 

[carbuff]

if she did get away and ran. The dogs would have most probably picked on her scent.

I meant later, after she was taken away somewhere. Like maybe when they were moving her from car to hideout, if she had a chance to run.

 

[gipsypup]

Thanks for clarifying Gardener 1850. I guess I'm trying to convey(without mentioning names or specifics) that sometimes the people a teen chooses to follow on their social media apps can raise red flags based on what you know about the teens life.
In this situation regarding the games, I was just curious if maybe LE determined that Jayme played digital games and became friendly online with individuals/groups that posted/played about digital games? Also, was Jayme possibly following unknown adult males who may have disturbing posts or comments about things that raised red flags ? It seems to me that in some situations(could pertain to this case) that concern may arise when looking at the other people an individual follows . Does the young teen "fit in" on their following page? Does the young teen seem to stand out amongst the other other images or interests they are following. To the point that LE has said that they are now focusing on electronics, many teens have 500-2000 followers on their apps , which could take LE many weeks to track down. I have also read here that many perps can also hide their IP addresses, which could also take more time for LE to figure out. In my opinion, that's maybe why LE is focusing on this area now.

 

[kc1023]

Random thought but maybe Jayme took off running and that is why the bad guy(s) took her - they had to capture her and book it outta there bc of the 911 call. They knew they had to get out of dodge asap and snatched her up outside. Could this lend itself to the searches? Could this be why they didn't kill her in the home? (I hope she is alive, just thinking of possibilities)

MOO

 

[Mistermagoo]

Ok, so lets say you are the perp here. What have you accomplished? This wasn't a robbery so you don't have valuables or money (that we know of), so what have you accomplished? Not too many scenarios. To me, you either got the revenge that you went there for or you got the daughter that you went there for. With the revenge scenario, I really don't see any benefit with taking the daughter. I think that they went for Jayme.
Also, I had mentioned in an earlier post that it occured to me the the FBI was contacted only 3 hours into the case to become involved.
Doesn't LE need certain criteria to be met for the FBI to join in a case. Obviously there is a missing child and they belong on the case but 3 hours into the case, they must have had enough info to meet that criteria pretty quick

 

[sun16]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Thanks. By hide forever, you mean she took off on her own?

 

[whatsherface]

I meant later, after she was taken away somewhere. Like maybe when they were moving her from car to hideout, if she had a chance to run.

oh ok, I’m sorry.. I thought you meant before taking her.

 

[Gardener1850]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Welcome Falcon500!
Do you think LE would possibly release the caliber of gun used, since the gun (or guns) is missing from the crime scene? Would that be at all helpful if people were asked to keep an eye out for someone wanting to pawn a certain type of gun or trade a certain type of gun with someone without a paper trail? Or would that info just increase useless tips about unrelated guns? Would it be better for the investigation to keep specific info about the type of gun used under wraps? I can see it both ways, but would like to hear your LE perspective on what they may release. Thanks for joining us!

 

[Birmingplumb]

This is my collection of thoughts on this case after much research. Bear with me. To get there, I feel like I need to help explain the environment and the experience of rural living .

I grew up in a similar rural area. We had no neighbors to speak of, and 20 acres of farmland on all sides. My brother was abusive and sometimes I screamed. No one heard me. I don't mean that to sound cryptic, but it fascinated me later that sound becomes distorted and less people report. I was in total isolation on the outskirts of a town with approx 4000 residents . My point is the isolation of a community can also create a risk whereas in a city you just statistically have more witnesses. This is why these sorts of cases are so difficult to solve. Isolation unfortunately equals opportunity to people with bad intent.

The second thing is that door issue. My dad was in the military. He taught us to look out the upstairs window to see who is at the door. You never stand behind a door and say hello. You have given away your locale. I would never have thought of that had I not been trained. I could be wrong, but it sounds like the dad had a lifetime of factory work, not a military man. IMHO I would say Ambush is likely as well, and the man we are looking for has some sort of military background . He knew to look for an isolated house, he knew to knock to take out the biggest threat immediately. The second threat of Mom, I'm guessing was why she was found in another locale, possibly hearing the gunshot and running out. That is a trap, again IMO.

From reading over the threads, I believe our Unsub has committed crimes of this manner before. I believe he chooses his victims somewhat randomly. (If Jayme was his motivation, he had to know she was there.) But I do not think he knew her personally. If this was an internet stalking, I believe the info would have been released.

I looked at Google earth, most of the trucks on the routes around town are pictured as CDL class. I'm not saying he s a trucker, but just an observation. The fact that she hasn't been found even semi locally points towards him taking her out of locale, and again shows planning. Planned distance.

I also looked up all the local cases for the last decades or so for Barron County and Rice Lake. My town is similar in size and rural density. We have 56 sex offenders in our town. City data showed Barron and Rice lake area as having 37. I've seen this mentioned as a high number and I don't think it is a variable as far as number that is outlandish in comparison to many cities of its size. Not a bad place to look though . They just did a net nanny sting and arrested 7 men there. Another article I found was south of Barron by 1hr 6min.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.fox9.com/news/pierce-county-deputy-charged-with-child-sexual-assault

This area sounds like meth is the least of the issues happening. And I don't say that lightly. But most meth users dont generally feel powerful. (I worked as a clinical researcher collecting stats, first hand. ) The trailer park sex offenders dont generally step out of their own view/trailer court for their victims .

We are looking for a man who feels powerful, finds a rush in the ambush, not impulsive in his actions, and has kidnapped before. He likes the whole process. The closest M.O. I see to this is Israel Keyes, obviously dead now and not a suspect. But his ante kept upping and the game was to keep the risk high as a narcissist reward.

That's all I have put together. Also, after being an internet researcher on crimes against children the last few weeks I realize I know nothing about the world and my stomach hurts. And I know why I am here . I grew up in fear and abuse, and the only power I have now is to help the victims .

CDL truck driver --------parked where?? getaway electric car/atv drives up ramp into truck trailer....------that brings me back to that place nearby they called right away -was it dairy? and the guy said "i checked its clear" wtf

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes you are correct
I’ve recently referred a case to the cyber crime unit
To try and keep it brief :

A single 30 yr old gay man is home alone and puts gay *advertiser censored* into laptop to watch, and whilst doing so, commits a Sex act .

Three days later he gets an email from
Location unknown with a link .

Email content is basically a blackmail threat that they have his email and password details ( they did and they correctly quoted his password in the email ).
And that they knew what sites he had visited and listed them.
And they had video of him committing sex act whilst viewing these sites . ( They sent a snapshot of said video attached to the email).
They threatened that unless they received £16,000 within 24 hours to the account details contained within the link , that failure to do so would result in his gay secret lifestyle being revealed to all the contacts contained within his address book online with said video attached.

I cannot give more details as to what LE actions then took place but suffice to say it was a real not perceived threat and we all need to cover the pinpoint cameras on our devices with a little bit of paper over it when not in use to prevent this kind of cyber spying.

That is terrifying Angleterre! In a case like this, IF there was no blackmail email or other indication someone was watching, how difficult would it be for police to tell if someone had hacked into one of Jayme's home devices and was quietly eavesdropping/watching her? Would LE be able to find that type of hack right away? Or is it something they automatically look for even when there is no contact from the person who hacked in, but a child is missing?
This is very scary.

 

[BB71]

But it's not a car in a river in New Jersey, it's in Oshkosh, right during this high profile search blasting on the news all over WI. And it was a stolen car.

Could the Unsub have access to a lot of cars, like from a wrecking yard or private collection? Could the Unsub have stolen and sunk this other car exactly to try to throw LE off?

Any source for it being stolen? I have looked for updates. Where from?

 

[BeeGirl]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Very good insight, Falcon. Thank you for that. Building off of this, do you think it's possible they'll release more facts about the circumstantial evidence we do have? I can't see how it could jeopardize a conviction to tell us, for example, the facts surrounding how the car(s) of interest became such.

 

[kay74]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the lead agency did not release more information to the public. I see members calling for the release of the 911 call. There is no reason to do that except to entertain the public. If the suspects voice was on the tape and could be clearly isolated then I’m betting that we would have already heard it.

The case, as I know it, really does not have any clues that would jump out at you if released to the public. The matter of who kicked down what door and what position the bodies were won’t be important until trial. There is no reason to release that in fact I don’t ever recall a reporter asking for the inside scoop about a crime scene.

Remember this is a rural community and law enforcement probably has an inside mistrust of the outside media.

I’ll say that the next thing that they release (if they do release anything) would be their belief that the daughter is alive. If that does happen then it will become a nationwide story and there will be no need for her to hide forever.

Thanks for coming on here. This was a savage crime, rage. A small community and all they have to check out is their relatives and friends other than that they have a lot of people at that plant they both work at. IMO I think one of the parents got someone in trouble there and that person got fired or quit thus the rage. There have been work place killings before.