AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[bizzle2]

I know everyone has paid alot of attention to the video/photo of the front door. Is it possible that Denise was killed first then James was shot as he was opening the front door to leave/ Run? Is it possible the perp entered from another part of the house or was allready in the house... shot Denise in the bathroom then as James ran for the front door fired and shot James and the front door or James had allready opend the front door when he was shot? This would justify the 2nd gunshot the neighbors heard being louder. ( first one inside the closed up house, second shot with the front door open) Just my opinion

Then why was the front door kicked and/or shot in?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Hiding in plain sight, with a little more spring in his step? Thing about small towns is they are accepting of those with quirks, the oddballs or as I grew up hearing “he/she isn’t right in the head”. There’s also a tendency for stoicism, quiet types (the hardest to figure out). That same tendency runs deep in speaking to “outsiders”, telling “your business” to the world. Like I previously posted, they just might be too close to the dysfunction to see it. That might even apply to LE as they deal with the same dysfunction from the same people over and over again. Normal becomes relative.

Great post. You are absolutely right. When you grow up with, or see someone day in and day out, their "quirks" become "just them". I agree the Perp could be hiding in plain site. Jayme could still be in the little town locked up in a basement for all we know.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

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[JRW]

I'm looking at someone from that plant doing this. Their little community would know by now if it was someone there! Duh.

Don't forget that a poultry plant also has lots of traffic coming through that does not live in the area. Inspectors, upper management, truck drivers, there are all kinds of non local traffic through these places that may make regular trips to the site but not be from the area.

 

[Mistermagoo]

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Agree! I've had a hypothetical situation of it being a local person in my head for some time now that could easily be overlooked as you describe. I'm missing one piece and it's driving me crazy!

I have wondered if the perp assumed that he would be on a short list of suspects that James and Denise would have if he only kidnapped Jayme, therefor felt James and Denise had to go.

 

[human]

I definitely think her odds of survival are increased because of the effort put into taking her. It reminds me of the Groene, Bain, Anderson and other cases.

The will to live IS powerful. However, if she is alive the question would be whether she would want to be. With many of these kids they had their parent(s) waiting for them at home. Jayme does not.

Obviously none of us can know what Jayme is thinking or what Jayme would want. I just hope that Jayme gets a chance to heal and move on from all of the trauma she has been through.

Maybe that is why the interview with the relatives and her dog was approached the way it was. It was to give Jayme some strength.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I have wondered if the perp assumed that he would be on a short list of suspects that James and Denise would have if he only kidnapped Jayme, therefor felt James and Denise had to go.

Thats a possibility.

 

[human]

I agree. If he hadn't planned on taking her, then I think he would've killed her shortly thereafter and, like others before, her body would have been uncovered in a field or patch of woods someplace. Taking a hostage is difficult but keeping one is even MORE difficult. Since her body hasn't been recovered, I have to think that this was pre-planned and he had a place either ready for her or he had a place that could quickly be converted. I lean towards the former.

I'm not ruling out other ideas, but right now I think it's someone who at least knew of the Closses (if not personally friends with them) and someone who had the ability to observe Jayme on at least one occasion.

My hope is that the little darling is alive.

But that area is so desolate and filled with water.

100 pounds is not easy to carry any distance, but he could have access to a 4x4 which would increase the area of where she could be placed in the woods. A few feet of carrying her into the woods off of a trail would make finding her a needle in a haystack.

I doubt if she was buried. The ground would have been partially frozen and the roots and rocks would make digging a nightmare

 

[Bluepopsicle]

In My Opinion I agree with this. I would think that running out of bullets could give Jayme the idea that it was easier to fight or run if she realized the bullets were gone. I would think in this situation also it would mean the abduction was not planned so taking her creates alot of problems for the perp. Also if taking Jayme was not the idea than what was? There was nothing stolen, would someone break in just to kill 3 people and leave?

It could have been a home invasion with the intent of robbery, but that plan could have went to hell upon discovery of the fact that someone made a 911 call, causing the perp to have to flee sooner than he wanted, taking Jayme with him.

 

[cluciano63]

I thought it was interesting that it was worded (and I'm loosely paraphrasing this)... that a suspect car had been scratched. I read that as initially they thought perhaps a suspect was driving that car, when previously, they had only said the car / driver was only of interest. Now it seems they thought someone connected to it was a suspect... and have now decided they don't know what kind of car it was at all.

I sincerely hope Jayme is not being read things like this by the perp(s) - can't imagine how very hopeless I"d feel if I were in her shoes.

Well she would be alive if that was happening...

 

[cluciano63]

I have wondered if the perp assumed that he would be on a short list of suspects that James and Denise would have if he only kidnapped Jayme, therefor felt James and Denise had to go.

If so, then someone would have an idea about who he is, though, most likely.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

No news.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It could have been a home invasion with the intent of robbery, but that plan could have went to hell upon discovery of the fact that someone made a 911 call, causing the perp to have to flee sooner than he wanted, taking Jayme with him.

That is my best theory. It checks off every box for me.

I see absolutely no reason to discount the neighbors who said they heard 2 shots at 12:30 (the time was even corrected by the Sheriff, as the clock was a few minutes fast). I believe that these were the shots that took out James. I believe these shots were heard by the neighbors because they occurred while the suspect(s) was standing outside on the porch. From this point on, I believe the suspect(s) completely lost control of the victims. I believe Denise either fought back or ran and barricaded herself in a room of the house and Jayme was either in there with her, or she hid somewhere else. I think it took the perps awhile to get into that room, and once they did, Denise was killed. I suspect that it was Jayme who made the 911 call and she either dropped it or it got thrown as they were dragging her out. I also believe Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) realized 911 had been called and because they are locals, they knew how quicky LE would respond. They didn't dare get caught firing another shot, so they had no option but to take Jayme and kill her elsewhere.

I believe the motive was robbery, but they lost control of the seen to such an extent that there was never time to ransack the house. And yep...I believe the suspects were probably hopped up on meth.



And that is all I have to say about that.

 

[JRW]

It could have been a home invasion with the intent of robbery, but that plan could have went to hell upon discovery of the fact that someone made a 911 call, causing the perp to have to flee sooner than he wanted, taking Jayme with him.

True but in my opinion generally robbers don't come with the intent to murder and kidnap unless there is a large quantity to steal.

 

[JaneEyre]

Ok, I came up with a way to explain that Jim could have been shot while trying to exit the house through the front door... its not the simplest explanation though:
-> Two (or more?) perps?
-> One goes in the back one waits out front for anyone trying to escape and pops them off as they try to get out that door? I bet police know that based on the trajectory of bullets, and if anything else was hit (eg: if the bullets went and killed dad through the door)
-> Mom is down, dad is down, Jayme runs towards an exit, someone scoops and runs?

I can’t imagine James, or any other father, running out of the house with his family still inside. I think it’s clear that Denise and/or Jayme would have been alive at this point (911 call - somebody was), and there’s no way James is going to run away from trouble still happening for his family.

 

[gipsypup]

You would think so, wouldn't you? However, if the Perp is truly a psychopath, he might be quite skilled at not revealing his true psychological makeup, feigning distress and trauma to mimic the rest of the community.

The term psychopath is tossed around loosely, whereas the percentage of the population who are truly psychopathic is only around 1%; but in the U.S. that's over a million unredeemable people running around. "The best current estimate is that just less than 1% of all noninstitutionalized males age 18 and over are psychopaths.1 This translates to approximately 1,150,000 adult males who would meet the criteria for psychopathy in the United States today."

Source: (And a good read) - THE CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH: HISTORY, NEUROSCIENCE, TREATMENT, AND ECONOMICS

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree THAT this was some type of deranged individual, but I feel he is not someone well known in the local ,everyday community. As in any case, the demographics of this small town should not be overlooked. Did different groups of people get along? Were they conflicts between different groups at Jennie -O concerning work environment or religious beliefs?
Jennie-o plant has employed thousands over the years. NOT ALL born and raised Barron folks. Many come from other countries and other towns with no deep roots in the community. If it was a true local in a small town like Barron then someone would know something and I don't think they would have such fear to come forward. One must take every angle into consideration when people including the sheriff say "crimes like this don't happen in Barron."
That's why to me its some type of individual who has NO regard for human life. He is deranged and possibly even brainwashed or convinced by something/someone to commit this crime. He could know the Closs family from a small connection at Jennie -O and believes he must seek revenge for something that happened there in his past. He not only wants revenge though, his thought out, anger fueled plan also includes kidnapping a young girl for himself.
JMO.

 

[bizzle2]

That is my best theory. It checks off every box for me.

I see absolutely no reason to discount the neighbors who said they heard 2 shots at 12:30 (the time was even corrected by the Sheriff, as the clock was a few minutes fast). I believe that these were the shots that took out James. I believe these shots were heard by the neighbors because they occurred while the suspect(s) was standing outside on the porch. From this point on, I believe the suspect(s) completely lost control of the victims. I believe Denise either fought back or ran and barricaded herself in a room of the house and Jayme was either in there with her, or she hid somewhere else. I think it took the perps awhile to get into that room, and once they did, Denise was killed. I suspect that it was Jayme who made the 911 call and she either dropped it or it got throw once they found her. I also believe Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) realized 911 had been called and because they are locals, they knew how quicky LE would respond. The didn't dare get caught firing another shot, so they had no option but to take Jayme and kill her elsewhere.

I believe the motive was robbery, but they lost control of the seen to such an extent that there was never time to ransack the house. And yep...I believe the suspects were probably hopped up on meth.



And that is all I have to say about that.

They were able to break in the front door, but it took a while to break down an interior door?

Interior doors are almost always much more lightweight. If someone can break down a front door they'd have zero problem breaking down an interior door.

And if it was a robbery, why didn't they take anything?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

True but in my opinion generally robbers don't come with the intent to murder and kidnap unless there is a large quantity to steal.

They probably don't come with the intent to rape 2 teenage girls and set their bodies on fire, either. Or beat a 5 year so severely the child had to be hospitalized, or torture a 7 year old by holding his face in boiling water...but violent home invaders have done all those things...and much worse.

 

[andreww]

This theory only works if Denise is the one who made the phone call.

I think that Denise making the call is the strongest possibility. James seems to have died where he fell. The phone was found between Denise and James. And it was Denise's phone. At almost 1:00 AM its almost a certainty that Jayme was in bed, fast asleep. For her to awaken, elude her captor, and get to her moms phone and dial 911 is a stretch.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

They were able to break in the front door, but it took a while to break down an interior door?

Interior doors are almost always much more lightweight. If someone can break down a front door they'd have zero problem breaking down an interior door.

And if it was a robbery, why didn't they take anything?

My post already addresses all that. But I'll go a bit further...perhaps they couldn't get into a locked gun safe ? Perhaps they couldn't find any cash or expensive jewelry, perhaps they couldn't find drugs, perhaps they did find something that LE isn't aware of, or perhaps they simply didn't have to ransack the house because they immediately lost control of the victims.