AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #26

[Irmese]

There are different types of SAR dogs and they work differently depending upon how they are trained and what they are trained for.

Tracking dogs sniff for particles left on the ground. Air-scent dogs are searching for the strongest "hit" on a particular scent (these are used most commonly for finding a living person that's trapped or missing but may be used in a kidnapping case to follow air trails). Then there are cadaver dogs (their ability is obvious) with that category divided by land and air abilities. And there are various other degrees of training and ability. Some dogs track and some dogs search.

I have no idea what types of dogs they've brought in for this case because the reporting has been so slim. Without knowing the dog(s) and their abilities it's hard to know if they could or would have detected if Jayme had been carried. It's absolutely possible but really depends on the training that particular dog or dog(s) had gotten.

I don't believe they've brought in cadaver dogs from the reporting I've seen which is just another huge question mark in my mind.

This was a question I had, too: what was the dog trained for.

 

[The Night Watchman]

Here's another new article with some info:

Investigators conducting more interviews in Closs case

Thanks for the link, But I find this very alarming-

Investigators are also taking a more complete look through the family’s phones and social media.

“We’re looking back a little farther in their social media and phone records,” said Fitzgerald. “We’re going back further, seeing who they called maybe 60 days ago to see if there’s something that maybe triggered this a while ago. Obviously, we didn’t find anything recently so we’re looking a little wider now.”

I would have guessed at least a year would be protocol in an unsolved, "motiveless" double homicide. Particularly with a 13 year young woman. A 30 person investigative team never thought of doing this starting day 1...hard to believe and disappointing.

 

[celticthyme]

Cellphone tracking is an excellent way of tracking the movements of a suspect, once you have a suspect. I have never once heard of LE finding a suspect via his cellphone pings.

They did get a lot of information about Casey Anthony after she murdered her daughter. She was on her phone all the time.

 

[kay74]

Thanks for the link, But I find this very alarming-

Investigators are also taking a more complete look through the family’s phones and social media.

“We’re looking back a little farther in their social media and phone records,” said Fitzgerald. “We’re going back further, seeing who they called maybe 60 days ago to see if there’s something that maybe triggered this a while ago. Obviously, we didn’t find anything recently so we’re looking a little wider now.”

I would have guessed at least a year would be protocol in an unsolved, "motiveless" double homicide. Particularly with a 13 year young woman. A 30 person investigative team never thought of doing this starting day 1...hard to believe and disappointing.

I so agree with you. I can't believe in all this time, they did not check back a year or more. Crazy. I think it was someone at that plant they both worked at. I've said it before and I still believe it.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

This was a question I had, too: what was the dog trained for.

Dogs were trained to find electronics.

This was a question I had, too: what was the dog trained for.

Electronics. Dog is named Kozak.

"He is deployed all over the state of Wisconsin. Recently, Kozak helped search the home of missing teenager Jayme Closs. Mech said he believed he recovered a tablet in that search."

Redirect Notice

JMO

 

[bizzle2]

I doubt James would have come home from the Burger King with a Whopper of such delicious allure as to lead a robber to kick in a front door, kill two people and abduct a teen in -- all in pursuit of said delectable sandwich. Winnings from a big gambling night could be another story, though I admit I have little faith in the casino angle.

Sure, but if he won big in the casino there would be a record of it. And LE would have been on it. It doesn't appear that they have focused on the casino at all so I think it's fair to say that he probably didn't have a big gambling win. We don't really even know if he was the kind of guy who liked casinos. If he worked 60-80 hours a week like the family says and had a young daughter to dote on at home I highly doubt he even had the time.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Thanks for the link, But I find this very alarming-

Investigators are also taking a more complete look through the family’s phones and social media.

“We’re looking back a little farther in their social media and phone records,” said Fitzgerald. “We’re going back further, seeing who they called maybe 60 days ago to see if there’s something that maybe triggered this a while ago. Obviously, we didn’t find anything recently so we’re looking a little wider now.”

I would have guessed at least a year would be protocol in an unsolved, "motiveless" double homicide. Particularly with a 13 year young woman. A 30 person investigative team never thought of doing this starting day 1...hard to believe and disappointing.

Agree..they need to have mid 20s people on these teams ... or at least more voices ... the sherif team seems like they wanted to talk to people and try find cam footage. Hard to fault that. But from day 1 u think a team woulda gone back 2 years... where does 60 days come from ?? Reason I say 2 years ... it feels like perp new house... new residents..
Find me everyone that set foot in that house last 24 months... eliminate one by one.. cable guy/roofer/plumber/ups/lawnmower/carpenter/ etc .... who knows... Denise gets weird vibe from one of them likely to text James... or if one of them is sex offender..

This is stunning .., it almost sounds like there committed to the anger issue...and don’t understand people being mad longer than couple days.... wtf hell..

This crime was committed by someone who waited till 1 am Monday morning, parked his car on set location, and likely only reason he did this was 1 hr with a 13 yr old girl..., anger wasn’t a factor... they were in the way of the 13 yr old. Was perp angry when they got shot... yes. Angry there in way of the girl.. perp coulda took out phone line 90 days ago... who the he’ll randomly picks 60 days.?

 

[bizzle2]

I’ll reiterate ... there’s every reason to check the UNREGULATED Indian reservation casino that’s a 14 minute drive away from the crime scene.

They are known places for criminal activity. Including but not limited to possible trafficking.

Even if James was never known to have ever entered a casino in his life... there is 100% reason to check with the casino (including surveillance cams) to rule it in or out as possibly linked in any way.

There's a whole office in the Wisconsin government dedicated to regulating Indian gaming.

You don't check a casino 14 miles away from a murder victim's house if you have no evidence that they were ever there. There is a casino that is within 14 miles a ton of crimes. Cops would waste so much time staring at worthless security tapes if they did that every time there was a murder within 14 miles of a casino.

I don't doubt they checked with the casino to see if they knew of him, and probably asked his family/friends about it. I'm sure they checked his bank activity. But if they said no and nothing popped up in his bank records I don't know why you'd waste resources going down that road.

 

[gipsypup]

I’ll reiterate ... there’s every reason to check the UNREGULATED Indian reservation casino that’s a 14 minute drive away from the crime scene.

They are known places for criminal activity. Including but not limited to possible trafficking.

Even if James was never known to have ever entered a casino in his life... there is 100% reason to check with the casino (including surveillance cams) to rule it in or out as possibly linked in any way.

Just check out the LE Facebook of the St Croix /Turtle Lake Tribal Police. Go far back into October and you’ll read about many criminal activities that occurred on casino property. Some are quite scary. One must remember that there is also a “ family friendly “ restaurant as well as a hotel on the property.The Closs family could have eaten there and been spotted by someone on the property.
Previous threads stated security on small reservation casinos aren’t as elaborate as big city casinos. Do they really monitor cameras outside ?
Jmo.

 

[bellyup]

I agree on a lot of that ... in fairness to Fitzgerald. He called FBI 3 hours into this...
didn’t do any good... but at least he was quick..

If it was a single perp who left no dna, no fingerprints, no shoe print, what would u think Fitzgerald could do... ??

who makes call on Closs 911 call/ ammo / etc... team/ book. Standard 2 to 5 yrs no matter what????

Snipped by me.

I talked about FBI involvement yesterday. If we look at Hania's case happening nearly parallel to this one, I have to question why the FBI was so heavily involved in that case but not this one. The only thing I can come up with is that they had a vehicle in Hania's disappearance but I can't believe that's the only reason.

I know he's said there is no physical evidence but I am starting to wonder if that was being said as a tactic but isn't working out the way he hoped it would. (ie; we know nothing so the perp would let his guard down)

In the Dryden interview Fitzgerald was quick to say that HE was in charge of this investigation and not the FBI.

 

[stephlovescheese]

The whole thing is just mind-boggling. I appreciate all of the differing opinions. I swear mine changes day to day. It’s disheartening to hear they are just NOW looking further back into phone records. But...they have their reasons. Still holding out hope Jayme will be found.

 

[bellyup]

BTW, what happened when the dog searched? I have missed some things on these threads. I know the dog didn't find anything, but was he a cadaver dog?

I've heard no mention of any type of SEARCH dog.

The only thing I've heard is that Jayme's scent ended in the drive way though I haven't even seen that reported in MSM. Does anyone have a link on this? I keep looking but coming up empty handed.

And there was an electronics search dog brought in.

I also know they deployed therapy/comfort dogs to Jayme's school.
Those are the only details I've heard or seen about the dogs and what information was obtained from them.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Sure, but if he won big in the casino there would be a record of it. And LE would have been on it. It doesn't appear that they have focused on the casino at all so I think it's fair to say that he probably didn't have a big gambling win. We don't really even know if he was the kind of guy who liked casinos. If he worked 60-80 hours a week like the family says and had a young daughter to dote on at home I highly doubt he even had the time.

Yep - that's my belief, too. My response, however, was aimed at the use of Burger King as a comp to the casino, in terms of LE needing to investigate places James may have visited that could have led to the crime.

 

[MesquiteO21]

I also don’t believe the casino was involved or has pertinent relevance. Possible, but not my theory.

My question is why Fitzgerald answered that he didn’t know if James was there or not. That should be a given that he should have absolutely known.

so do you think we can infer that they either can't confirm exactly when James left work and/or when he arrived home? and if there was anywhere else between work and home?

 

[cluciano63]

I believe the casino was checked strictly for video. It may have cameras that face roads and LE would not yet know what might be useful later. Better to get them right away.

LE answered “I don’t know” to other questions besides that about James being at the casino. I doubt it means anything. He also did not deny the rumors about a 19-yr old possible boyfriend, yet it seems no such person exists as far as we know.
Jmo

 

[JudgeJoe]

Thanks for the link, But I find this very alarming-

Investigators are also taking a more complete look through the family’s phones and social media.

“We’re looking back a little farther in their social media and phone records,” said Fitzgerald. “We’re going back further, seeing who they called maybe 60 days ago to see if there’s something that maybe triggered this a while ago. Obviously, we didn’t find anything recently so we’re looking a little wider now.”

I would have guessed at least a year would be protocol in an unsolved, "motiveless" double homicide. Particularly with a 13 year young woman. A 30 person investigative team never thought of doing this starting day 1...hard to believe and disappointing.

So agree. But I’d go back a decade. That’s either a lot of festering rage bubbling up over time- maybe alot of time- or it’s a completely random violent spree night. I’m thinking either/ or at this point.

 

[bellyup]

There's a whole office in the Wisconsin government dedicated to regulating Indian gaming.

You don't check a casino 14 miles away from a murder victim's house if you have no evidence that they were ever there. There is a casino that is within 14 miles a ton of crimes. Cops would waste so much time staring at worthless security tapes if they did that every time there was a murder within 14 miles of a casino.

I don't doubt they checked with the casino to see if they knew of him, and probably asked his family/friends about it. I'm sure they checked his bank activity. But if they said no and nothing popped up in his bank records I don't know why you'd waste resources going down that road.

WHO'S WATCHING STATE'S CASINOS? WISCONSIN'S TRIBAL CASINOS GET LESS REVIEW THAN IN OTHER STATES
"The state resources to oversee all two dozen of Wisconsin's Las Vegas-style casinos and smaller gambling sites are barely more than what's focused on the state's lone remaining dog track"
"The state is not the primary regulator for tribal casinos - that responsibility falls to the independent American Indian nations themselves"
"There's no question" that regulators in Wisconsin and some other states haven't kept up with the growth in tribal gambling since the 1990s"

Keep in mind, the only state involvement is making sure the games aren't rigged in the casino's favor. Ie; they aren't openly cheating. The state of WI has little other input into reservation gambling.

I think we are getting way off track though.
My assertion was that Fitzgerald ABSOLUTELY should have known if James was in that casino on the night of the crimes or not. I still believe that is true. Fitzgerald SHOULD know. If nothing else his answer shouldn't have been "I don't know." it should have been "We spoke with XYZ casino and asked them to review tapes, keep an eye out and let us know if they saw or see anything suspicious. They have agreed to assist and cooperate in any way they can though we do/don't believe the casino has any relevance." or some such similar thing.

Which again becomes my point. Either Fitzgerald is dropping the ball or he needs a PR person to handle his statements instead of continually saying "I don't know." to things that he absolutely should have looked into.

Also as an FYI, rarely are investigators and LE the ones actually reviewing hours and hours of tapes to find some small little thing. That's usually handed off to support staff.

 

[bellyup]

Just check out the LE Facebook of the St Croix /Turtle Lake Tribal Police. Go far back into October and you’ll read about many criminal activities that occurred on casino property. Some are quite scary. One must remember that there is also a “ family friendly “ restaurant as well as a hotel on the property.The Closs family could have eaten there and been spotted by someone on the property.
Previous threads stated security on small reservation casinos aren’t as elaborate as big city casinos. Do they really monitor cameras outside ?
Jmo.

There's also the known issue of human trafficking on Indian reservations. For me, there's just no question whatsoever that it would have been imperative to not only find out if James was a patron of the casino (on that night or ever, really) but ALSO to consider the other known criminal aspects that can surround reservation casinos.

(Trafficking in Tribal Nations: the impact of sex trafficking on Native Americans • Human Trafficking Search)
(https://rewire.news/article/2017/09...ates-human-trafficking-native-women-children/)

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Just checking in again. Through all the speculation on this case, I don't recall any of their co-workers making any statements in the news. James and Denise worked at the same company for over 20 years and most likely confided with some of their co-workers about what was going on in their personal life. Maybe one of them had a disagreement with a co-worker and/or supervisor. Who knows? Maybe LE needs to interview EVERYONE they worked with. Even a 5 minute interview might reveal something! In my mind, I am trying to make sense out of this and I do feel the person(s) is someone the family knows.....whether it's Jayme, James or Denise....one member knew them. Plus the number of sex offenders in the area blows my mind. Hello.....maybe LE needs to go back and re-interview ALL of them. They may not be connected to this case at all, but may be connected to other unsolved cases. Oh, and all the meth heads there.....Barron sounds like a scary place to live!!

 

[bellyup]

so do you think we can infer that they either can't confirm exactly when James left work and/or when he arrived home? and if there was anywhere else between work and home?

I'm not ready to jump quite that far .
I don't believe that they actually don't know if he was there or not. It would be seriously questionable on Fitzgerald's head if he genuinely doesn't know if James was in the casino the night of the crime or not this far out.

I believe that Fitzgerald is answering vaguely in these interviews intentionally. Maybe he had a good reason for it at first (ie; trying to get the perp to let their guard down)

I don't agree that this is a good tactic anymore. It's going to lead to people either questioning his ability to handle this case OR a completely cold case with no Jayme. He needs to start giving more information on anything that isn't integral to the investigation, IMO.