GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[Layla123]

She need not have said or done anything. Did his children say nasty things to him too?
He did not need anything to trigger him. He just wanted them gone out of his life quickly so he could move in with his lover.

I hope SW got the chance to tell him what she thought, he deserved it! Of course, the children didn’t, but wish they could have, too. Anyway, strangulation just seems so anger filled and violent to me. Like you have to be out of your mind, psycho to actually go through with it. But, maybe I’ve seen too many movies.

 

[Jennifer17]

And I imagine that when he says Shanann was “on top of Cece” that maybe she was, but she was trying CPR?
Then he strangled Shanann in that bed.
You know that lies are sometimes peppered with little bits of truth.
I’m not sure why I think this is the way it happened. Just a thought.

The little bits of truth in that is that he was on top of those children to stop them from struggling while he held their noses and forced their jaws shut.
Cece, being younger and smaller was easy, but Bella still struggled and she had mouth and jaw injuries. Sorry to be graphic, but it was brutal.

 

[Charlot123]

One last comment from me on the NK interview. She stated she did not see CW on Friday and she had a friend that stayed over that night. I wonder who the friend was? Was she seeing someone else?
(Sorry i don't know where in the 2nd interview she said it and cannot tolerate listening to it again to find out)

I always considered NK a smart woman. Suddenly I saw it all in a different light.

She is a person who probably has an alibi, but did everything to destroy it.

I don't think Jim's, the "couch surfer's" name has been released publicly. There are ways to find out, of course, but it is unimportant, in my view. He has a key to her house - meaning that there is some activity going there that she wants to keep secret. I don't care what it is.

But - at this point in time Jim has not been interrogated and has not confirmed her alibi.

NK asked not to drag him into it. The police during the second interview said they had other ways to confirm her whereabouts on that fateful night/AM of August 13th.

How? I don't know. What ways can be used to verify someone's whereabouts?

So, to me, her whereabouts on August 13th have not been verified.

As of today, I think she did a monumentously stupid thing by erasing the texts. Because she, herself, can not restore them. She can not show them to anyone as a proof that they had never discussed CW's plans.

NK undermined her own alibi. I think this is not what she was thinking about, but this is what has happened.

NK has not taken a polygraph, she erased her texts, she provided no witness to verify where she was on August 13th, she was the love interest of CW, and she was interested in getting married and having her own kids.

This is where her vulnerability lies.

My feeling it - people have long memory. And when things look bad, they look bad.

 

[Jennifer17]

There was nothing in discovery to indicate that she went home "pissed". In fact she just wanted to get home to lovingly hold him. And really, SW said something "button pushingly nasty"? That's a gross thing to say. MOO.

And pissed has another meaning in British English.

 

[MsBetsy]

We heard earlier that apparently CW is passing the hours away reading the Bible.

Only in between the other books they gave him. That's what I gathered from the logs. He also spent a lot of time staring at the walls and the floor.

 

[MassGuy]

And pissed has another meaning in British English.

Well we know that they sealed the autopsy results so the “fangirls” and alike, wouldn’t run wild with the other meaning of the word.

Even though nothing of the sort occurred.

 

[Layla123]

There was nothing in discovery to indicate that she went home "pissed". In fact she just wanted to get home to lovingly hold him. And really, SW said something "button pushingly nasty"? That's a gross thing to say. MOO.

I didn’t intend to be gross, I meant maybe she said something that would absolutely hurt him to the core that only a wife would know. I think he was very insecure, and that wouldn’t be hard to do.

 

[MsBetsy]

And pissed has another meaning in British English.

Like loaded or drunk, right?

 

[LovesChocolate]

And I imagine that when he says Shanann was “on top of Cece” that maybe she was, but she was trying CPR?
Then he strangled Shanann in that bed.
You know that lies are sometimes peppered with little bits of truth.
I’m not sure why I think this is the way it happened. Just a thought.

Very interesting thought. Perhaps she came home, dressed for bed, then tip toed in CeCe's room to check on her (I most definitely would have). She finds her unresponsive. Panics, screams for CW, begins CPR, and he takes the opportunity to catch her off guard.

I feel dirty every. single. time I imagine some scenario.

 

[Sallyo’malley]

The little bits of truth in that is that he was on top of those children to stop them from struggling while he held their noses and forced their jaws shut.
Cece, being younger and smaller was easy, but Bella still struggled and she had mouth and jaw injuries. Sorry to be graphic, but it was brutal.

Yes. I guess that’s why I thought Bella may have been first, out of anger, when she got out of bed a 2nd time. Shanann’s flight was delayed and Bella wouldn’t stay in bed. His plan was possibly thrown off by these two things and he could have took it out on Bella. Just a theory.

 

[scdiv]

My favorite part was after he left and the guy looked at the detective while shaking his head and said, "He's not acting right AT ALL."

My favorite was the neighbor imitating CW's dopey demeanor and guilty rocking. It was calling to mind that scene in the Fugitive when the Marshal says, "It's hinky." The neighbor's hinky radar was definitely off the charts after observing CW.

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes. I guess that’s why I thought Bella may have been first, out of anger, when she got out of bed a 2nd time. Shanann’s flight was delayed and Bella wouldn’t stay in bed. His plan was possibly thrown off by these two things and he could have took it out on Bella. Just a theory.

Yes, we have all speculated about that, but I think that the dogs would have alerted had she been dead for that long.

 

[Charlot123]

Colorado prisons are a little more progressive. they recently gave 8,000 inmates electronic tablets as a trial and are pleased with the results less fighting in line to use the phones and calmer inmates in general they go on their best behavior cause they don't want their tablet taken away they aren't connected to the internet but they can communicate with friends ad relatives nd are charged a fee for each call all calls are monitored like the telephone calls and it's easier for LE to do so. They can play endless games on their free time and are more with the times. Some of the older inmates don't know how to work a cellphone Guess he lucked out Did you see where in some cases where an inmate is transferred to another state, they even change their name

In New Zealand, on Rotaroa island, recovering addicts take care of golden tamarinds. I wonder if making our prisoners take care of abandoned animals would be more helpful than give them one more gadget?

 

[MsBetsy]

I always considered NK a smart woman. Suddenly I saw it all in a different light.

She is a person who probably has an alibi, but did everything to destroy it.

I don't think Jim's, the "couch surfer's" name has been released publicly. There are ways to find out, of course, but it is unimportant, in my view. He has a key to her house - meaning that there is some activity going there that she wants to keep secret. I don't care what it is.

But - at this point in time Jim has not been interrogated and has not confirmed her alibi.

NK asked not to drag him into it. The police during the second interview said they had other ways to confirm her whereabouts on that fateful night/AM of August 13th.

How? I don't know. What ways can be used to verify someone's whereabouts?

So, to me, her whereabouts on August 13th have not been verified.

As of today, I think she did a monumentously stupid thing by erasing the texts. Because she, herself, can not restore them. She can not show them to anyone as a proof that they had never discussed CW's plans.

NK undermined her own alibi. I think this is not what she was thinking about, but this is what has happened.

NK has not taken a polygraph, she erased her texts, she provided no witness to verify where she was on August 13th, she was the love interest of CW, and she was interested in getting married and having her own kids.

This is where her vulnerability lies.

My feeling it - people have long memory. And when things look bad, they look bad.

I think they were able to retrieve all the deleted texts.

 

[LovesChocolate]

The little bits of truth in that is that he was on top of those children to stop them from struggling while he held their noses and forced their jaws shut.
Cece, being younger and smaller was easy, but Bella still struggled and she had mouth and jaw injuries. Sorry to be graphic, but it was brutal.

Burking.

 

[BelleIsle]

yeah I partly agree with you MG
I don't think shanann knew the kids were dead.
from what we have learnt about them as a family from those that know the girls were light sleepers, I don't think shanann getting home at 2am would have risked disturbing them.
why would she?
as far as she is concerned they are in their home with their loving father all safe.
she just needs to get 3 or 4 hours in before getting up to enjoy bellas first day of school.

but I differ in I do believe the girls were already deceased when she got home.
because he wouldnt send her fresh picks of the kids later in the evening when she specifically asked for them.

moo

I can see your point about them being light sleepers. IMO I do think she would have checked on them, maybe just to peek in. I still check on all of my kids at night, even my teens, but I have ptsd and don't take one minute with them for granted. I realize that not everyone is as paranoid, as life's tragic experiences can lead us to do these things. I also think that she might have asked about the receipt from the restaurant. Wasn't there a text about it right before she left AZ? SW had asked CW to keep it so that she could write it off. It was fresh on her mind when she arrived home. I can't guess at if that convo happened in bed or what, perhaps CW said I'll get it tomorrow and nothing further came of it (In texts SW seems to be tiptoeing around him in order to placate him at that point).

 

[Jennifer17]

Like loaded or drunk, right?

Legless!

 

[Charlot123]

I think they were able to retrieve all the deleted texts.

All? After the factory reset?

 

[Herat]

I don't think CW went into a rage when he killed SW because I believe she was asleep when he killed her. I don't think there was a big fight and he lunged at her and strangled her. Neither had defense wounds. It was a calm quiet kill. IMO he kept saying "rage" because he thought that made it sound better as in "I was just so angry at seeing her killing the kids I went into a rage and lashed out at her. I didn't know what I was doing" Blah blah blah. Lies.

I agree with you completely

Rage had nothing to do with this

This was coldly and impassionately planned. He chose to strangle her warm body to death with his own hands, using surprise, while she was likely deep asleep. He wanted no drama or confrontation. I really hope she had minimal understanding of what was happening.

The more dastardly part is what I believe is his subsequent murder of the two small children. Not manually strangled, with his hands directly on their warm skin- as he did with Shannan. But by pressure of some sort that didn't allow them to breathe. Althought little Bella must have struggle mightily to tear her frenulum and lacerate her tongue and mouth as describe in her autopsy.

I've tried to be objective and dispassionate about this, but what he did was severely ABNORMAL. Nothing he did is at all defendable.

Millions of couples with children break apart their relationship and separate/divorce and deal with their children and support them. There is heartbreak and doubt and anger and severe stress. But they don't kill their family with their own hands.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I didn’t intend to be gross, I meant maybe she said something that would absolutely hurt him to the core that only a wife would know. I think he was very insecure, and that wouldn’t be hard to do.

But we already know he didn't "snap" or react in anger; it was completely premeditated so he could start his new life with his "electric" new girlfriend. Moo.