GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #64

[Layla123]

Let me preface this by saying I practice in CA and am not versed on CO law, but I'll do my best to help.

Work product is that which is prepared by an attorney or their agent in anticipation of and preparation for trial. None of what we see released here appears to be the mental impressions/legal strategies, etc. of any attorney. Further, "that the constituent expects to remain confidential" is tricky in the legal context: it's not "These texts are raunchy so I don't want them released." That is embarrassing, sure, but it is not confidential in the sense of attorney-client privilege or work product. Those are legal protections that must remain confidential.

The second part you noted specifically states at discretion of custodian. The DA being the custodian of this discovery, it is clear he chose to release the records of his investigation.

Doesn’t the DA count as an attorney? These people are his witnesses.

 

[scdiv]

Exactly. Thank you for saying that. Also with true OCD the behaviors prevent someone from taking part in a normal life-- not being able to leave or go to sleep without checking the locks repeatedly. Cleaning obsessively when there is no dirt and to the point where you miss appointments. Shanann had no signs of that. She was dependable and showed up for her appointments (until the day she was murdered). When her friends said she was a little OCD they only meant she likes a clean and organized life. They didn't mean that she was clinically diagnosed with OCD-- there is a huge difference. JMO.

Well said. In the police call with SW's friend Cindy, Cindy said some people who act "ocd" like that are kind of annoying, but with SW, she really wasn't. She just had it super together.

Cindy even kinda laughed at one point and said she (Cindy) had told her friends, that if she went missing, no one would even be able to tell something was off or figure out her life because there would be too much to go through or scattered! (paraphrased.) But with Shanann, every little thing was always so in place, and scheduled, that it was so immediately obvious this is NOT how she keeps things or skips things and this is NOT right.

 

[Jupiter05]

Shanann would have excelled at any sales/marketing position. She could have done anything and would have been successful. But she chose a business that allowed her to spend time with her family and not have to commute and work specific hours. She would be a dream come true for most comp I keep thinking she would be a anies needing such a polished and enthusiastic team member.

 

[Jennifer17]

Doesn’t the DA count as an attorney? These people are his witnesses.

They were speaking to LE though, not the DA.

 

[riolove77]

Doesn’t the DA count as an attorney? These people are his witnesses.

The DA is the county's attorney and he would have been the one prosecuting the case. Nothing he released was ANYTHING that he had written/prepared/etc. Think about it: he has to have hundreds or thousands of pages of his own notes, thoughts, trial strategies, etc. And I'm not even getting to his ADAs. That's the kind of stuff that is protected. NOT the police investigations. Some people keep referring to "when the DA interviewed NK..." but these interviews were conducted by LE.

 

[molly1255]

We should be reluctant to be concerned with our country’s freedom of information laws. They are a bedrock of our general principles of freedom. There are plenty of places across the world that do not have these benefits and the governments of those places can be and are very secretive about things that the public should have a right to know.

NK may be mortified that her personal info is out there for the world to see. She should be happy she only wasted a few weeks of her life on this trash excuse for a man and survived to talk about it. Her life could have turned out far different and much worse.

I agree. I also like the advice my dear old Dad gave my sisters and me. He told us to never do anything that we wouldn't be proud to see on the front page news, including pictures and written communications.

It's very good advice.

 

[opalonyx]

He shouldn’t have married her, and he should have told his parents to shut up!

Sadly, I actually believe he never truly loved Shanann. If his parents were right on that, they'd have to wonder why he would marry someone he was attracted to, but wasn't in love with, just to get away from them. His mom in particular. Why was he so desperate to hitch his wagon to the first serious girlfriend in order to create his own family and flee North Carolina? I believe Shanann when she said he was happy to move. She said his mom "wasn't exactly very nurturing".

One could try to dismiss that but there's also Ronnie asking CW if he wanted his mom to fly over. He said no. He didn't put them on the visitor's list. He never called them. He wouldn't even look at his mother in court. IMO the look on his face when his mom was crying and quoting scripture about love was "God, she's full of ****." I think he looked resentful as she spoke. But that's just what I saw.

 

[human]

I know, but still, I think it may end up being counterproductive over time. Seems to me it would be better to make that info. readily available if someone (media, etc.) requests it. But to put it all on-line, like I said, seems counterproductive in the long term.

As much as I would ALWAYS make myself available to LE as a witness, etc. to any crime...I'd really be alarmed about my personal info. being made available to any screwball (none of us of us are of course ) who might be nosy.

As an example, what if someone innocent person witnesses a gang crime. That could get ugly if their texts, phone #, etc. were released to the general public.

Reading what is revealed about witnesses and the fact that anyone in the world can read about someone, no thank you.

They have reams of paperwork. They can make a list of witnesses and have the information about the witness on a separate sheet. The witness can have a number or some other code.

No wonder people do not want to be witnesses.

 

[molly1255]

He killed Bella,CeCe,and Niko too. So this being about her 'controlling' is just inexcusable.
this

Babies were not controlling. He snuffed their lives out.
The victim bashing is unreal.

I couldn't agree more. I think victim bashing is sadistic, especially when there is all of this proof, including his own admission, that he killed them all. I don't understand it.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Doesn’t the DA count as an attorney? These people are his witnesses.

Attorney client privledge is between an attorney and his client who is paying for their services.

 

[human]

I guess some don't see the purpose in talking about Shanann's faults or perceived faults or personality flaws now. I agree with whoever said why does it even matter? She didn't "do" anything to warrant being murdered no matter how controlling she was or how much money she spent or how many times Chris wiped down the counters as opposed to her. So why does it matter if she had OCD or spent too much time on her phone for work? She's dead. Her husband killed her. He also killed his children and they most certainly didn't do anything to warrant being murdered by their father. I realize no one has said Shannan deserved to be murdered but why the continued need to question her medical issues, her spending habits, her housework habits, etc. We know for a fact now she didn't murder her children. She was murdered. For No Reason. It just feels icky to me. JMO. It feels like some people will not let her rest in peace.

Then people should quit posting stuff that is not true.

It makes everything suspect that is posted.

 

[gitana1]

Perhaps he wasn't given the chance, given that SW had control issues. Before you jump on my back, this is what I got from the discovery document.

Control issues? Please cite the page number or minute number in video or audio that proves Shanann had control issues.

It may be hard for some to reconcile the fact that no- she didn't kill her kids. CW wasn't pushed past the brink by her, and yes, she is a victim. But those are the facts.

BTW? Anything bad about Shanann stated by investigators to the murderer while they were trying to get him to confess, is not evidence that Shanann was a bad person or had whatever nasty characteristics some have attempted repeatedly to insinuate about poor Shanann.

So what else is there that proves she was controlling?

Shanann had multiple, very close friends. She remained friends with her ex and his family even. People all speak very highly of her. Her friends knew her intimately. Not on a surface level like CW's friends.

If she had true control issues she would not have so many close, intimate friends.

Did she take charge in the relationship? Perhaps. So what? That doesn't mean she had control issues. That might mean she was a driven, organized go-getter who had an immature blob of a husband.

Was she a decisive person that rubs those who have a problem with strong women, the wrong way? Oh I think so. She doesn't fit all the traditional gender norms and doesn't "keep sweet." That seems to have caused a lot of hate toward her in people who don't know her, and in her in-laws.

But I really thought we were done with the bashing here.

First it was every speculative insinuation about Shanann one could think of, based on gossip, rumor, innuendo and forming judgments from biased views of cherry-picked videos, while logic and actual mountains of circumstantial evidence against CW was ignored and deemed "not enough."

Then, when he pled guilty, it was he must've been railroaded into it. He must've been the victim of a corrupt and inept public defender who colluded with the DA and the jail. Or maybe he was protecting someone. Or pled to brutally murdering his own children simply because he felt he would be found guilty anyhow.

After sentencing, the theories of his innocence have certainly faded from the threads. But suddenly we saw from certain factions, deep protectiveness and excusing of the Watts family who publicly bashed a murder victim, and then protectiveness and excusing of the AP, whose existence and actions proved a catalyst or trigger for Shanann's defective and sociopathic monster of a husband. So everyone who has harmed Shanann is given a break, but never her.

And now in keeping with the pattern, we are circling back to making ridiculous allegations about the character of the murder victim? Someone who more people adore and were worried about and jumped to try to help than we see with many murder victims?

I find this terribly offensive.

 

[Layla123]

They were speaking to LE though, not the DA.

Couldn’t it be argued that they were investigating for the DA?

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

I did not hear her use the R word but she did seem to trash talk Charlotte IMO.
About 14:30 minutes in she starts talking about her texts with her friends and what she has told them and then goes into what she talked to Charlotte about after that:

If I were Charlotte, NK would not be my friend anymore. JMO.

ETA: Upon listening again I think I found the spot where people are hearing NK call Charlotte the R word but I can't quite tell if that is what she is saying. About 21 minutes in she says something under her breath "She is so ____".

When I slowed down the video, I heard her call Charlotte the R word for certain.

I have a brother who is "R" so I have a special stash of loathing for fools who use this word.

 

[MassGuy]

Poor NK.

She was unwillingly forced into a relationship with a married man.

She was forced to delete text messages between her and her mass murdering lover.

Her own words were then released to the media, and in turn the general public.

Nope. She victimized herself.

The victims here are a mother, her children, and her family.

I couldn’t care less about NK.

Actions have consequences, including unintended ones.

I wish her no ill, but don’t consider her a victim either.

 

[Trudie]

I couldn't agree more. I think victim bashing is sadistic, especially when there is all of this proof, including his own admission, that he killed them all. I don't understand it.

Are the bashing posts being removed promptly? I have been off & on but have yet to see a bashing S post.

 

[Tortoise]

Then people should quit posting stuff that is not true.

It makes everything suspect that is posted.

What was posted that was not true?

I think the correct action is to alert on the false post so that it can be removed, because not everyone will continue to read the whole thread to find the correction.

 

[Layla123]

The DA is the county's attorney and he would have been the one prosecuting the case. Nothing he released was ANYTHING that he had written/prepared/etc. Think about it: he has to have hundreds or thousands of pages of his own notes, thoughts, trial strategies, etc. And I'm not even getting to his ADAs. That's the kind of stuff that is protected. NOT the police investigations. Some people keep referring to "when the DA interviewed NK..." but these interviews were conducted by LE.

What about the assurances LE gave NK that they had no use for her raunchy material? Are they allowed to misrepresent their intentions to witnesses? I’m also thinking about characterizing her laughter as creepy. Can she sue them? And don’t you think LE’s betrayal will discourage future witnesses from coming forward?

 

[MassGuy]

Are the bashing posts being removed promptly? I have been off & on but have yet to see a bashing S post.

It began early on in this case <modsnip>.

We were allowed to entertain CW’s story, and some people took it too far.

It was at times overt, and at other times took the form of insinuations and speculation.

It was there.

People are still on guard.

 

[NanZDrew]

So here we are, 4 months down the road, the case is close, we've seen lots of evidence, and we are still asking, "Why?" Some scenarios have changed. I have found that some of my theories were wrong. But I still ask, "Why?" It doesn't make sense. It never will. They had problems but they were not unsurmountable. I have lived long enough to know that we will all have moments of pain and stress in this journey called life. Yet neither the depths of despair nor the heights of rapture will drive us to murder someone. It is neither logical nor rational to ignore consequences. I think we are all logical people here so our brains just cannot comprehend how CW could have done this. We will always wonder, "Why," and grieve the lives that were unmercifully and cruelly destroyed for nothing! Little Nico never got to take his first breath. One of the pictures of Bella at the birthday party showed her in a little dress sitting in a chair as she was just starting to make that transition from toddler to little girl. Sassy, spunky little CeCe whose whole face smiled when she laughed. We'll never know what she might have accomplished. And then Shanann. She was one who my opinion changed alot about. I thought that maybe Chris was someone that she just "settled" for, but after reading the texts between her and CW and between her and her friends, I realized that the video that she made about Chris being her rock and the best thing that ever happened to her, sincerely expressed her feelings. Her question to a friend, "What if he really doesn't love me anymore?" and her statement to him that these had been the worst weeks of her life really hurt my heart. He put her through hell and she stood up to him about his parents even while she was fighting for her marriage. She was a fighter for what she believed in, but she also had a kind heart. I grieve them all.

CW...he was a human tornado leaving a path of destruction in every life that he touched.