CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

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worreewart said:
You should review the written statements and the interview with his lawyer. He never says “fiancé” or “engaged.” He says they haven’t discussed the nature of their relationship, he knows only that they share a child together.

I have said before, I doubt PF and KB are engaged. I think that’s a story she told her <modsnip> mom to mitigate the out of wedlock baby! The only one who says they are engaged is CB. <modsnip discussing family>

Also, when Kelsey’s Aunt said she broke up with her SO the night before TDay, we don’t know that PF was that person. Maybe it was a different guy that KB never told her family about. And maybe he’s bad news. And now he is getting off Scott free without scrutiny while PF is put through the ringer. This is also a possibility that should be examined.

KB’s apparent lack of friends (at least none coming forward) means nobody has any clue what was happening in her life for sure. Just CB’s version... the narrative she wants us to all believe because it paints her daughter as pure and innocent. I understand why she would do this. There is no evil in her motives. But investigators cannot let CB control the facts. They are not facts just because she says so.

IMHO
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@worreewart what do you think happened? Personally I think his attorney is using terms and words that aren't necessarily fact. Such as "cooperating" - do you think PF has cooperated? LE desperately wants to interview him, why doesn't he sit down with his attorney and talk to them - get that behind them. If there is another "singular person of interest" (his attorneys phrase, not mine) than let LE eliminate PF and move on. What's you take on it?
 
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darring21 said:
Kelsey's aunt has said they broke up on Thanksgiving but Kelsey's mom has maintained they were engaged. This is a source of confusion.
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I asked the VI some questions about the relationship, and I see some others have had questions too. Maybe if we wait patiently we will soon have some answers. No pressure, of course. This case isn't going anywhere for awhile. Although I do hope they find something soon.
 
BessDrew said:
Just caught up and wanted to add a few thoughts.

Great points, Gitana. While occasionally members of the public find or report leads that help investigators, they don’t owe us any disclosure. They owe Kelsey justice and shouldn’t compromise that end to satisfy people like us.

I continue to think the most likely outcome is that Kelsey met with foul play at the hands of someone close to her, which is why it makes sense that they are searching her fiance’s family’s property. I expected that to happen.

AND I share everyone’s disbelief that the fiancé hasn’t made even minimal attempts to appear publicly cooperative. He didn’t report her missing, has not sat down with investigators, didn’t come to the press conference, isn’t personally calling for her safe return, and isn’t publicly organizing search parties.

The most likely explanation for acting in this manner, in my opinion, is that he has something to hide. As even *if* he was no longer her fiancé, even an innocent man would tell police what he knows and might come out on a media interview and say, “Those who know us know that Kelsey and I haven’t been in a close relationship for some time. But we continued to work together for the sake of raising our daughter. I join everyone else in praying for the safe return of my daughter’s mother.”

My strongest leaning is that he is involved.

However, I always want to uphold the purest form of justice, that doesn’t project the most likely scenario on every person but leaves room for facts to prove out another less likely scenario.

Since there is *yet* to be a body, blood, or any sign of a struggle, and since there is *yet* to be any video footage to prove or disprove the timeline after Safeway, I still do leave a little room for other possibilities. In part because 800 miles is a long way to go for a ping, in part bc PF’s initial story seemed to have satisfied investigators for a time, in part bc of comments like those Kelsey’s cousin made (i.e. why did no one report her? it’s a long story...you’ll understand when it comes out).

The only other possibility that makes PF’s behavior make any sense to me given the little we know now, although veryyyyy unlikely, is this:

—If, hypothetically, Kelsey and PF hadn’t been officially together for a long time. Maybe they were still open to getting back together someday, for example, but had called off any exclusive relationship or engagement. It’s possible LE has even been able to confirm something like this with locals who know them.

—If, hypothetically, PF genuinely knows Kelsey left on her own accord, but he himself cannot explain how the time has stretched out so long. There is sensitive information about Kelsey and/or their relationship that he is protecting from the public bc of either loyalty to Kelsey or to protect his daughter’s future reputation.

—If, hypothetically, PF sees participating in the investigation as if he was the “most intimate person to her” as a farce or untruth because he operates as more of an acquaintance and civil co-parent in reality. If that were the case, he may be stalling bc he may expect Kelsey to return and clear this all up in time.

—If, hypothetically, Kelsey met with death or foul play at the hands of someone else, PF may know that he is statistically the most likely suspect. He may feel like he has to do everything he can to ensure his daughter does not lose access to her only remaining parent.

And be clear I am not blaming Kelsey...nor discussing alternatives bc I want to further victimize women who disappear at the hands of others. By all accounts, Kelsey seems like an outstanding human being who left little evidence to suggest she is anything besides a stable and loving working mother. But although we all see what is most likely, real justice (and plenty of other cases) demands we await evidence to rule out other possible outcomes we have seen in other cases. That includes that she was harmed by someone other than the partner we know about (Mollie T case), that she could’ve had an accident (Toni A.), that she, for reasons we don’t understand, could have exercised her right as an independent woman to leave for some time on her own accord (although unlikely, we have many examples of this as well).

I hope, and I honestly somewhat expect, the search warrant will yield answers. So if anyone participated in harming or holding Kelsey on that property, I hope they have not been able to destroy all evidence given the nature of farms and construction equipment and rural back country and so forth. But I feel like this is a patience game. We need more information to understand the full picture. And I have become excited about search warrants before (RL - Delphi), only for them to turn up no connection and the investigation to then turn elsewhere.

I’ve said, I hope they release more information in case some of what they say would help provoke public memory...and maybe prompt someone to recall an important detail. But I understand and respect they might not be able to tell us more.
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This is a great post and we cannot rule out any scenario; however, regardless of his reasons, his baby girl has a mother who disappeared and he didn’t care enough to report it. Even if it’s all on Kelsey, he should have filed a report. If nothing else, it would have helped his case if there was ever a custody dispute. He didn’t do anything but keep his mouth shut. Looks bad on him.
 
Kapua said:
If the source of that information is PF; that is, if PF told LE that he picked the child up at Kelsey's home, and LE repeated that to the media, then I don't take this to be a fact. I made that mistake in the Charli Scott case. The perpetrator told Charli's sister what happened the night she disappeared, and it was a big lie. Unless there is corroborating information such as video, we have only PF's word that he picked the child up when he said he did.
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What PF initially told LE is not going to be repeated to the public. We all know from past cases that LE are often told lies by those involved in crime.

That detail likely would be repeated to KB's family because LE would try to verify KB had broken up with PF on Thanksgiving. Instead, KB's mom has said they spoke twice and KB told her they had plans for dinner and discussed getting a Christmas tree.

It is obvious to me that LE has had time to interview friends and coworkers, cell phone records, security video and LE has concluded PF lied about KB breaking up with him.

JMO
 
MsBetsy said:
You should ask him how a "false ping" can occur. I asked about it earlier but we need some tech people to share their knowledge.
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I found an article when we were back on page 1 that talked about a glitch that occurred a few years ago, where the cell phone company recorded the data from the incoming, rather than the outgoing phone whenever the call went to voice mail. Unfortunately, I can't find it now. Otherwise, I don't know how a "false ping" could occur, but I personally don't want to rule it out just yet.

ETA: found it; it was an AT&T glitch.

More AT&T Cellphone Ping Drama : serialpodcastorigins
 
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SandyQLS said:
Help! What is your friend's opinion about the Idaho ping and texts all on Nov 25? If you already posted, sorry I missed it, threads fly by here.
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I haven't asked yet, but have been wanting to. I do know they are very adept at what they do,and knows it like the back of their hand.
 
chihuahua said:
We saw some odd pings and ping info in the Jessica Chambers case.
They can be hard to interpret.
Even the very best goverment experts disagree in cases.
Hoping they get more info ASAP.
Chi
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Yes, I'm still hoping someone can give an explanation for "false pings" and other discrepancies regarding that kind of data, as well as its accuracy. I have become very curious about that.
There was a poster or two who was able to explain how all that works in the Mollie Tibbetts case but I can't remember all that technical stuff for the life of me.
 
Using the internet, it is easy to use a VPN or private browsing service to mask your location...and use a false location...that makes it appear you are using a server in a different region.

But that’s not what we are dealing with, I don’t think. LE is saying the actual physical tower in Idaho picked up the ping of the physical phone nearby. https://www.google.com/amp/s/gazett...7decfdd4-fe43-11e8-b63b-9322a2aa03c3.amp.html

Now yes, could someone with extremely technical skills fake that? I have no doubt there are people who could. But very rarely in these cases where a criminal is trying to cover up their crime does that criminal also have the time or expertise to go to that length. In most cases I have seen, the best they do is toss the phone in a different location or destroy it.

So it could’ve been used and tossed in Idaho, for sure. But...we need to figure out who was in Idaho then.
 
Curious Guy said:
How do you know all of this? Are you close to PF?
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They likely saw the entire post that the article was referencing re: her aunt’s statement on various social media platforms. She never called him PF, just said “ex”. So, pretty sure ex alludes to PF, since she also called him baby daddy in the same post, but I guess you could come up with an alternative theory that she meant a second man was broken up with (though very doubtful that this is the correct interpretation)
 
MyBelle said:
What PF initially told LE is not going to be repeated to the public. We all know from past cases that LE are often told lies by those involved in crime.

That detail likely would be repeated to KB's family because LE would try to verify KB had broken up with PF on Thanksgiving. Instead, KB's mom has said they spoke twice and KB told her they had plans for dinner and discussed getting a Christmas tree.

It is obvious to me that LE has had time to interview friends and coworkers, cell phone records, security video and LE has concluded PF lied about KB breaking up with him.

JMO
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Really interesting. Can I ask what makes it obvious to you that they discovered a lie?
 
MsBetsy said:
Yes, we would like him to be forthcoming and helpful but apparently his lawyer has advised against being questioned. Not much can be done. It would seem that LE has their hands tied at the moment and are looking for other ways to get information. Hopefully the search will provide some answers. Imo
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The first press conference is such an excellent example of LE using the media as a tool. The undercurrent was exactly as you stated, LE hands are tied, meaning they had strong suspicions but not probable cause. Then the media engaged their unspoken role, to hound the identified target. I am so pleased they are executing a SW at the property.
 
BessDrew said:
Using the internet, it is easy to use a VPN or private browsing service to mask your location...and use a false location...that makes it appear you are using a server in a different region.

But that’s not what we are dealing with, I don’t think. LE is saying the actual physical tower in Idaho picked up the ping of the physical phone nearby. https://www.google.com/amp/s/gazett...7decfdd4-fe43-11e8-b63b-9322a2aa03c3.amp.html

Now yes, could someone with extremely technical skills fake that? I have no doubt there are people who could. But very rarely in these cases where a criminal is trying to cover up their crime does that criminal also have the time or expertise to go to that length. In most cases I have seen, the best they do is toss the phone in a different location or destroy it.

So it could’ve been used and tossed in Idaho, for sure. But...we need to figure out who was in Idaho then.
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It all depends on the way they interpreted a ping I think. Cellular tower ping or IP ping. An IP would ping off of a server.
 
AgeofAquaruis said:
I haven't asked yet, but have been wanting to. I do know they are very adept at what they do,and knows it like the back of their hand.
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He must know all about false pings, then. No pressure to ask, of course.
 
BessDrew said:
The most likely scenario points to the fiance’s involvement, statistically. We all know that.

Still, there’s a lot of unreleased info we don’t have.

Kelsey’s mom and aunt are honorably operating on what they know and were told, but as people who live far away, there might be some things they aren’t aware of too.

For example, Kelsey’s aunt asked truckers to search for Kelsey on the roads. This indicates to me that she believes there is a possibility Kelsey is not going to be found on the local farm property.

Suggesting another man could be involved is not necessarily offensive.

For one, if there’s any possibility Kelsey and PF has broken up, she’s an independent woman who is free to date someone else.

Secondly, it wouldn’t have to be a boyfriend. It could be a coworker or neighbor who liked her or observed her and then acted out.

Thirdly, we don’t know if Kelsey and PF may have even had an on again and off again relationship. It’s not impossible she could have dated someone else previously and there’s an ex out there who has been in recent contact.

I lean toward the fiance’s involvement and consider his current behavior difficult to explain, but I don’t think we should attack people who throw out other possibilities to explain her disappearance.

People have unexplainably disappeared for a number of reasons, and it is still possible (maybe not likely but possible) that these commenters will end up being right and those who attack them will look foolish.

If we had evidence of a struggle or video that contradicts PF’s timeline, we’d be closer to being able to close the book on lesser possibilities. But in my humble opinion, we aren’t quite there yet.
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My problem with this is some aren't merely throwing it out there, they are stating it as fact. <modsnip - discussing other posters>
 
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darring21 said:
Kelsey's aunt has said they broke up on Thanksgiving but Kelsey's mom has maintained they were engaged. This is a source of confusion.
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I think the source of that was PF. Kelsey's mom does not believe it, Kelsey's aunt does.

As to the claim by PF that Kelsey went to Idaho to visit relatives, that brings back memories: Chris Watts: "My missing wife said she was going to visit a friend"
Terry Rasmussen (Larry Vanner Larry Mockerman, Robert Evans) "My missing wife went to Oregon"
 
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