CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5

[WhimsicalWillow]

Why is it thought that PF and KB were separated?

Hasn’t it been said PF is the fiancé?

I am suspicious of PF, of course, but we can’t let the Watts case give us a biased opinion. We need to see the facts for what they are without the lens of the Watts case, please.

I’ve seen some refer to KB as a “loner” because none of her friends have spoken out. Keep in mind that Shanann Watts was an extremely unusual case because her employment was with an MLM where she communicated multiple times a day with her team. Her team consisted of not merely colleagues but were all personal friends of hers, that she recruited into Thrive and new friends that she made from Thrive. Thus, SW had many people speaking out how it wasn’t like her to not communicate. She communicated with them nearly 24/7 for work and socially. In addition, her job required her to be visibly active on social media. Her visibility helped her case because people knew it was unusual for her not to be heard nor seen.

 

[sun16]

Map-wise, does anyone see a store or a business anywhere on/near the routes to the PF property that might have a camera? (so you could see cars/trucks on those routes on Thanksgiving?) Or another nearby house? I know not all residences have cameras or Ring cameras.

 

[Beamer15]

But she didn’t tell anyone? I cannot believe she wouldn’t tell PF, her mom, her aunt, brother, brother n law??? Doubtful.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree on a couple things. It does seem obvious the mother believed they were in a relationship, although I am not sure she had the full story. And I don’t think we should take PF’s word for anything. Did you hear LE refer to PF as the fiancé in the press conference yesterday? I only remember them referring to him as the parent of their shared child but I might have missed this. Please feel free to send me a link.

LE is using the media as a mouthpiece and the news media is continuing to refer to PF as fiance. The news media not only knew LE was executing the search warrant (which is sealed) they were there to capture the removal of PF and his vehicle on video. These are not coincidences.

Colorado police plead for Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé to speak with them as hunt for missing mom intensifies

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes I saw the posts. I just think they are wrong. The FBI by law got involved in this case when her cell phone pinged in Idaho. Thats not speculation. That happens each and every time there is evidence of interstate crime. Again that is the LAW of our country not speculation. Secondly, the first thing the FBI would be investigating is the ping from the cell tower. How do I know that? Because without knowing wether the ping was false or real they wouldn't know if they have any jurisdiction. How do we know they found the ping to be legitimate? We dont know for 100% but because they joined the state of Colorado in the search of the property we know they have remained involved. The state of colorado does not need any help from the FBI to execute a search warrant. The state of colorado has state of the art forensic teams that investigate crime scenes like this much more often than the colorado bureau does. If you want to create links speculating something else may have happened, based on some other scenario be my guest. I choose to believe facts and law.

Respectfully, I don’t want to derail the thread here but I think it’s important to clear up this common misconception about the FBI. Crossing state lines is not a requirement for the FBI to become involved in a missing person’s case and a phone ping in another state is not the reason the FBI is involved in the investigation of Kelsey’s disappearance. The FBI is routinely called upon to assist local law enforcement in missing person’s cases because of their extensive resources and expertise – resources and expertise that often times, state and local law enforcement agencies do not have.

1035. FBI Assistance in Missing Persons Cases
In a missing person case, as a matter of cooperation, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) will, at the request of a state or local law enforcement agency, make available the facilities of the FBI Identification Division and the FBI Laboratory.

Information pertaining to certain categories of missing persons, including missing children, may be entered into the missing person file of the FBI operated National Crime Information Center (NCIC) by the local law enforcement agencies and, since passage of the Missing Children Act (Pub. L. 97-272, amending, 28 U.S.C. § 534), by parents of missing children if the local law enforcement agency will not do so. [cited in JM 9-60.100]

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Just about every case I have followed has included FBI involvement and because many of us here are familiar with the Mollie Tibbetts case (which had no interstate activity), I will use that as an example. Mollie went missing from a small town in Iowa (population 1,400) and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation requested the FBI’s assistance:

State and federal investigators join in search for Mollie Tibbetts
Mitch Mortvedt, Assistant Director of Field Operations for the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigations said DCI joined the investigation Friday and the FBI became involved Monday. Both agencies, he said, are able to offer extensive resources to aid in the search for Tibbetts.

“The FBI brings a lot of investigational power with forensic analysis and evidence assistance,” he said. “Additionally, the FBI has a highly-trained search and rescue team … and that is one of the resources they brought in.”

Everything We Know About The Disappearance Of Iowa College Student Mollie Tibbetts
"This is a new arena for us. That's part of the reason we called the FBI in. It's probably pretty new to them, too," Mitch Mortvedt, spokesman for the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation, told CNN. "I don't know of another case here in Iowa where we have used specifically Fitbit info."

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All 56 FBI field offices have NCAVC (National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime) coordinators who handle support and training requests from agencies in their local area.

NCAVC provides the following services:
Crime analysis
Profiles of unknown offenders
Offender motivation analysis
Linkage analysis
Investigative suggestions
Multi-agency coordination
Threat assessment and management
Interview strategies
Search warrant affidavit assistance
Prosecution and trial strategies
Expert testimony
Critical incident analysis

CIRG — FBI

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I could see the attempt to set a scene by having her phone send texts to work and to BF saying she's off to see family in N ID, then setting up for her phone to ping at a place the guilty party faultily assumed (not knowing the normal routes) would be along the way. Or maybe she was "supposedly" going to E WA or someplace where Gooding actually is along the way.

In any case, he might have hoped that the focus of the search would be up near the ping. Looking for a car over the side, etc.

No text to Mom because mom is up in the vicinity and would know there was no plan for a visit.

Maybe he asked a buddy or family member to take a drive with her phone, turn it on at x point, then turn off destroy/dispose of phone nearby.

Problems with this: he didn't disappear her supposed vehicle. Why not? I got nothing...

Also it would seem to have been a better plan to leave the phone on after it was tossed, so it would keep pinging there.

All 100% opinion and speculation.

This is why I didn’t place my percentage higher than 75%.

Just hypothetically, if you planned on driving a phone 800 miles to create a false ping, it seems like you might also think to take a suitcase or move a car...? Unless you feared returning to the scene (her house) and being caught on some random neighborhood camera. But even then, couldn’t you create a story thread that you were concerned and went to check on her...

We need more info to get all the way to a conclusion. Right now we stop just short.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of what Kelsey's alleged relative has posted on here contradicts Kelsey's mom's statements?

 

[chihuahua]

My 1st husband was a pilot and he flew only private planes for clients.
He wouldn't drive that far...
Just saying and IMO
Chi

 

[Thinker22]

Regarding the fiance lawyering up, that's the prudent thing to do in today's society when your SO disappears. I'm reminded of a recent case here in Colorado, Natalie Bollinger. The BF she lived with was under intense scrutiny. He retained a lawyer, probably at the advice of a trusted family member, and stayed out of the limelight. LE was tight-lipped about the investigation and really threw WS members a curve ball when the pizza delivery guy was charged. Though the confessed perp hasn't gone to trial yet (and thus all the details haven't come out), that appears to have been the right call for the BF in that case.

 

[Cardinal47]

I'm going to muse a bit here. As a flight instructor for folks who will become "tomorrow's warfighters" she would have come into contact with numerous young men and women in the course of her duties. I sure hope there's been a thorough screening of those contacts.

I don't know a LOT about pilots, but I do know that many of the prefer to fly rather than drive when taking a trip of several hundred miles. What are the chances she hooked up with someone (coworker, friend, Craigslist Rideshare) flying to the Pacific NW and took the opportunity to split fuel cost, flying time, etc. Maybe Idaho was a refueling stop.

Yes this!

 

[Kapua]

To me many of the answers to what may have happened to Kelsey lie in what PF didn't do, not necessarily what he did do. Questions I'm sure LE have or are looking for answers to:
1) Did he use his phone normally from 11-22 to 11-25 or did he go silent? What is his online activity like?
2) What does the GPS on his truck say about his activity, was he driving around locally or was it sitting in his driveway?
3) Did he miss the time he was supposed to return the baby to her mom and no one knew?
4) Why did he not report her missing and show concern immediately?
5) What did he tell his family about having the baby only with him and not sharing custody?
6) Did his family have a Thanksgiving dinner planned and he didn't make it or he showed up only with the baby?

So many questions! I hope the search is going to answer several of them for us.

Excellent points, particularly #2. Now that we are allowed to sleuth PF, did anyone notice the make and model of the truck LE confiscated yesterday, can anyone hazard a guess at a model year, and can we determine if it has GPS as a feature? I remember that Tad Cummins disabled the GPS on his wife's Nissan Rogue when he went on his little adventure.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Map-wise, does anyone see a store or a business anywhere on/near the routes to the PF property that might have a camera? (so you could see cars/trucks on those routes on Thanksgiving?) Or another nearby house? I know not all residences have cameras or Ring cameras.

Or a camera that monitors the roads in between her house or his house to the interstate.

This is an important question I have been waiting to hear answered as well.

 

[Ccging]

I could see the attempt to set a scene by having her phone send texts to work and to BF saying she's off to see family in N ID, then setting up for her phone to ping at a place the guilty party faultily assumed (not knowing the normal routes) would be along the way. Or maybe she was "supposedly" going to E WA or someplace where Gooding actually is along the way.

In any case, he might have hoped that the focus of the search would be up near the ping. Looking for a car over the side, etc.

No text to Mom because mom is up in the vicinity and would know there was no plan for a visit.

Maybe he asked a buddy or family member to take a drive with her phone, turn it on at x point, then turn off destroy/dispose of phone nearby.

Problems with this: he didn't disappear her supposed vehicle. Why not? I got nothing...

Also it would seem to have been a better plan to leave the phone on after it was tossed, so it would keep pinging there.

All 100% opinion and speculation.

I’ve been wondering if there was someone other than PF that took and disposed of her phone. I get a feeling there was help.

If they left the phone on and it continued to ping there would be more search efforts to find it, so turning it off (or destroying it) would be a better option...IMO

 

[OldLadyBlues]

I'm still 100% sitting in Switzerland. I have no opinions, presumptions, nothing. And I will stay this way because there still not enough information to do anything but speculate. Since I'm old, it keeps the clutter down in my brain.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

But she didn’t tell anyone? I cannot believe she wouldn’t tell PF, her mom, her aunt, brother, brother n law??? Doubtful.

What are you referring to here?

 

[sun16]

Has anyone else noticed that a lot of what Kelsey's relative has posted on here contradicts Kelsey's mom's statements?

Yes. At this point, I only believe LE. If any of Kelsey’s emails or texts are released one day, I believe those obviously. Straight from the source.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

This can happen. I know that the reporters are people who, too, have families to feed, that they are doing their jobs. I would try to be polite. However, we, and the media, have a habit of tearing people apart with comments about “inappropriate” facial expressions, hidden smiles, shirts of wrong color, general cuteness or ugliness, and what not.

I don’t think Stanislavsky or Chaplin could pass muster today if they were interviewed. The press would criticize Stanislavsky for being “too theatrical”, and Chaplin, for “strange jerky movements” and inappropriate clothes.

(Especially after another high-profile case, and not so far away) - I don’t believe PF was nasty. I think he did not want to be ripped apart by the media, and by us, and for a good reason. Also, he might be protecting his daughter.

So, if there is a reason to suspect PF in foul play, it is something that the police would know. Whenever they say it, I am ready to criticize PF. But not yet. As of today, I have no idea about either KB’s relationship with PF, or her proximity to her biological family.

It’s obvious that his lawyer told him not to talk to the media. His lawyer obviously paid attention to Chris Watts’s interview and is having PF do the opposite.

It would make PF look better if he had a brief statement prepared instead of flat out stonewalling all reporters that are concerned about your missing wife and mother of your child.

PF should have attended the press conference and had his lawyer read a statement while standing next to him and then announced he would not be talking to reporters or media. Completely ignoring everyone, all media, all questions, and all events (pressers and vigils) for KB comes off as cold and fishy to the public.

It does NOT help that this occurred in CO when the public in CO is still recovering from the Watts family tragedy.

 

[chihuahua]

Natalie Bollinger my phone remembers how to type it on it's own Her favorite song was "Murder In The City" by the Avett Brothers...
C

 

[riolove77]

Are there any attorneys out there who could speak to the probable cause needed to search PF’s property and vehicle?

Would the fact that he was the last one to see her via the “custody exchange” be enough for that search or would they need more to go on to obtain the search warrant?

Probable cause is a higher threshold than that. They need more than just a hunch; they need to present proof that they reasonably believe it is more probable than not that the property being searched or seized has been involved with a crime. The custody exchange alone wouldn’t be enough; one poster asked if someone had seen KB in the truck on the afternoon of 11/22 and reported it would be sufficient; I think it would still depend on the reporting party of that tip, but that could suffice.

 

[Falcon500]

Are there any attorneys out there who could speak to the probable cause needed to search PF’s property and vehicle?

Would the fact that he was the last one to see her via the “custody exchange” be enough for that search or would they need more to go on to obtain the search warrant?

LE would need to convince a judge/magistrate or whoever issues search warrants in that county that there is probable cause to believe that a crime has occurred on the property. They also could use the tactic that evidence in a crime is being hidden on the property.