OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[Trudie]

Exactly, the witness isn't on trial, so their history should play no part of it. Then she puts in a motion for her history not be allowed in the trial... That makes you go, Hmmmmmm

Everything about this case has me Hmmmmmmmmm!

The most intriguing aspect, for me, is that one, two, three or perhaps all four W’s thought murdering 8 was a good idea in the first place. And, that they could out smart LE, and go on living happily ever after. None of the four appear to be “rocket scientists”, IMO.
Oh, and to think, if apprehended, they’d take out more.

 

[waterfalllady]

He would def’ be my ex, as well.

Now, if G3 is functioning at 7 grade level, is he not considered MR? How on earth did AW ever get involved with him & feel it safe to have kids with him?

Perhaps G3 holds the public school system responsible for his deficiencies and was the driving force behind “home schooling” for his boys.

Again, if they are the culprits behind the grisly murders of 8, they have sure destroyed the W family name for generations to come. Future generations that stay in the area shall always be known as related to “those other Ws”.

You don't have an Intellectual Disability (MR) if it is the result of a lack of education. In order to have an Intellectual Disability, you also have to have deficits in adaptive functioning like feeding yourself or socializing normally and a low IQ. Your IQ actually shouldn't go up or down much based on how much schooling you've had.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

There was just a case in Richmond, Indiana where a mother called police that her son was going to a school to shoot it up. They got there before him. The only injury was the 14 year old committing suicide when he knew he was had...

It is sad that a 14 year killed himself but his mother absolutely did what was in the best interest of her own child and all the children in that school that day.

Now Fred on the other hand did what was in her best interest. She lied to keep her son out of jail but also to keep it out of the press that her son was a murderer. She was afraid her name and her business would suffer so she allowed a man who slaughtered 8 innocent people to run free for 2 1/2 years to kill anyone else who crossed him in any way.

Fred and Rita more than any of the others turns my stomach. To know what your children are and yet allow them to run loose for over 2 years to kill other innocent people they might be angry at is despicable.

And poor Lenny on the day they raided the Flying W. When the reporter asked him if he thought his daughters killer would be arrested said "Not in my lifetime. Not unless they find something really good down there." You could hear the despair in his voice that LE would ever be able to take down a woman as wealthy and influential as Fred.

Lenny just never thought he would live to see the day justice would come for his loved ones. I do hope he is as happy as he can be now.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

You don't have an Intellectual Disability (MR) if it is the result of a lack of education. In order to have an Intellectual Disability, you also have to have deficits in adaptive functioning like feeding yourself or socializing normally and a low IQ. Your IQ actually shouldn't go up or down much based on how much schooling you've had.

I agree, IMO dropping out of school after Grade 7 has more to do with dislike of teachers, school rules, and subjects being studied, than low IQ. A learning disability shows up much earlier, in being unable to learn to read and write.

 

[Trudie]

You don't have an Intellectual Disability (MR) if it is the result of a lack of education. In order to have an Intellectual Disability, you also have to have deficits in adaptive functioning like feeding yourself or socializing normally and a low IQ. Your IQ actually shouldn't go up or down much based on how much schooling you've had.

Right. I’m curious as to why he only acquired grade 7 level.
Idk if he quit, if he had LDs that prevented him from going on to a higher grade or what the heck happened. Since he’s on SS or SSI, it occurred to me he might have been diagnosed MR. he appears to have difficulty in his thinking and comprehension, problem solving & other traits that are clear signs of MR. I was considering a mild form of MR, not to the non functioning level.

 

[Trudie]

I agree, IMO dropping out of school after Grade 7 has more to do with dislike of teachers, school rules, and subjects being studied than low IQ. A learning disability shows up much earlier, in being unable to learn to read and write.

Bingo! The rules.
Perhaps he was expelled from the public school system. It can & does happen.
Idk if he’s literate, or not.
Since his atty has brought up his education level as grade 7, I see something in the works regarding his ability to plan or participate in the murders. No way are they not going to play off this.

 

[rsd1200]

Exactly, the witness isn't on trial, so their history should play no part of it. Then she puts in a motion for her history not be allowed in the trial... That makes you go, Hmmmmmm

I'd want to know if the witness had a "reason" for providing testimony. If they are a paid witness, or if they are getting out of parts of this for their testimony, have a long arrest and conviction history, I think the jury should know. Not all witnesses are doing things for the greater good. They do it for their greater good. Therefore, are they being truthful?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

delete

 

[Satchie]

BTW, there appears to be a complete absence of the type of articles that are so typical after a murder arrest, along the lines of "Neighbour shocked, family seemed so nice", or "Teacher remembers accused killer was a model pupil" etc. Tho I'm not sure whether residents in this area ever talk to the media this way.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

I agree, IMO dropping out of school after Grade 7 has more to do with dislike of teachers, school rules, and subjects being studied, than low IQ. A learning disability shows up much earlier, in being unable to learn to read and write.

GW3’s lawyer will still use that 7th grade education to his advantage, unfortunately. I hope the prosecution is prepared for this aspect. I still cannot understand why a woman as a mother would allow her 7th grader to drop out of school entirely. In the 1970s. We aren’t talking back in the 20s-40s when it was common to drop out of school at a young age. The W’s don’t appear to have faced financial hardships like a lot on the area, which would require a 7th grader to drop out to earn money to help support the family.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Porque no los dos?

We don't know. They could have been getting money from anywhere.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree, IMO dropping out of school after Grade 7 has more to do with dislike of teachers, school rules, and subjects being studied, than low IQ. A learning disability shows up much earlier, in being unable to learn to read and write.

He could still have had problems that went un-diagnosed. For many, a hard to manage child, is just that, hard to manage. They take them out and try to find alternative routes. His parents may not have believed he had any problems other than being a "strong-willed" child. Older generations, here at least, still have stigmas about such diags, and even taking your child in for such examinations. A teacher's suggestion may have been met with a reaction of yanking him out of school and an attempt at home school and learning about the horse biz.

 

[Trudie]

GW3’s lawyer will still use that 7th grade education to his advantage, unfortunately. I hope the prosecution is prepared for this aspect. I still cannot understand why a woman as a mother would allow her 7th grader to drop out of school entirely. In the 1970s. We aren’t talking back in the 20s-40s when it was common to drop out of school at a young age. The W’s don’t appear to have faced financial hardships like a lot on the area, which would require a 7th grader to drop out to earn money to help support the family.

Absolutely they will use it, if nothing else, to keep him off DR, if convicted.

 

[rsd1200]

BTW, there appears to be a complete absence of the type of articles that are so typical after a murder arrest, along the lines of "Neighbour shocked, family seemed so nice", or "Teacher remembers accused killer was a model pupil" etc. Tho I'm not sure whether residents in this area ever talk to the media this way.

Thank you!! I've noticed that too! Not concerned so much about FW, and RN, but where are the friends of the boys? Did they not have any? What about other ex gfs and the ex wife? You know they've been approached. Are they all under gag orders? The closest we got was the podcast and the journalist shooting pool w/people who knew both families. But no one has said, I used to hunt with G3, or JW was my best friend, we met at X when we were 10. You know, the usual; They were quiet folks, kept to themselves.

 

[Satchie]

He appears to have difficulty in his thinking and comprehension, problem solving & other traits that are clear signs of MR. I was considering a mild form of MR, not to the non functioning level.

I think whoever masterminded this plot was what we call a psychopath. And people who go along with a psychopath's agenda take on those traits as well, sort of brainwashed. So it would be a personality disorder, rather than an intellectual problem.

They did manage to elude police arrest for several years, so they were fairly smart.

"The symptoms of psychopathy include: lack of a conscience or sense of guilt, lack of empathy, egocentricity, pathological lying, repeated violations of social norms, disregard for the law, shallow emotions, and a history of victimizing others.

Read more: Hare Psychopathy Checklist - define, person, people, used, personality, score, traits, Definition, Purpose

 

[IceIce9]

BTW, there appears to be a complete absence of the type of articles that are so typical after a murder arrest, along the lines of "Neighbour shocked, family seemed so nice", or "Teacher remembers accused killer was a model pupil" etc. Tho I'm not sure whether residents in this area ever talk to the media this way.

I noted that as well.

Probably the family members did not associate much with other people. And also, considering the brutality of the crime, maybe those who do have something to say about them have decided it is wiser to keep quiet.

 

[waterfalllady]

Right. I’m curious as to why he only acquired grade 7 level.
Idk if he quit, if he had LDs that prevented him from going on to a higher grade or what the heck happened. Since he’s on SS or SSI, it occurred to me he might have been diagnosed MR. he appears to have difficulty in his thinking and comprehension, problem solving & other traits that are clear signs of MR. I was considering a mild form of MR, not to the non functioning level.

He will most likely try to claim that he has an Intellectual Disability because people with Intellectual Disabilities can't get the death penalty. Most people with IDs can't function in society without a great deal of help. In Ohio, there are a lot of services available to people with Intellectual Disabilities so even in a rural area, he would be getting a lot of extra services if he indeed had an intellectual disability. Most people with an Intellectual Disability wouldn't be able to keep murder a secret either.

 

[Trudie]

I think whoever masterminded this plot was what we call a psychopath. And people who go along with a psychopath's agenda take on those traits as well, sort of brainwashed. So it would be a personality disorder, rather than an intellectual problem.

They did manage to elude police for several years, so they were fairly smart.

"The symptoms of psychopathy include: lack of a conscience or sense of guilt, lack of empathy, egocentricity, pathological lying, repeated violations of social norms, disregard for the law, shallow emotions, and a history of victimizing others.

Read more: Hare Psychopathy Checklist - define, person, people, used, personality, score, traits, Definition, Purpose

AW must be fearful that the W family will turn their backs to her. She’s only related by marriage. Despite RW showing for RW’s arraignment, she may have ulterior motives. She may have been there as a messenger or to appease AW, that they love her & are concerned. Surely, if no one attended from the W camp, she would have been most insulted.
I think we can all assume the most perfect outcome for all the W’s would be for AW to ultimately bear the most blame. It’ll never happen but they can dream.

 

[Satchie]

AW must be fearful that the W family will turn their backs to her. She’s only related by marriage. Despite RW showing for RW’s arraignment, she may have ulterior motives. She may have been there as a messenger or to appease AW, that they love her & are concerned. Surely, if no one attended from the W camp, she would have been most insulted.

I wonder, RW might be attending at the request of FW, who perhaps can't attend because of her bail conditions?

 

[Trudie]

He will most likely try to claim that he has an Intellectual Disability because people with Intellectual Disabilities can't get the death penalty. Most people with IDs can't function in society without a great deal of help. In Ohio, there are a lot of services available to people with Intellectual Disabilities so even in a rural area, he would be getting a lot of extra services if he indeed had an intellectual disability. Most people with an Intellectual Disability wouldn't be able to keep murder a secret either.

I don’t think he’s challenged to the point of needing special services, AW met his needs, IMO. Since he met the eligibility requirements to draw SS, he’s been diagnosed with either a physical or mental impairment making it unlikely to be gainfully employed.
I’m not ruling out a mild form of what I still refer to as MR. sorry, but been too long to change terminology now.