CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[jaspermac]

The site they chose to dig up is a huge clue. It is probably the septic area as other posters have mentioned. The diggers were in and out of there fast, remember that suprised us all. Excavating looking for a body is time consuming, you have to be careful- so they weren't looking for a body. But it makes complete sense if they were just trying to access the septic system and gray water system and maybe remove a piece of the outgoing pipe from the house or filter to test for DNA or other evidence. If he used the sinks in his house to clean up, evidence goes down the drain. I know in other cases they have taken sections of pipe from the house. That being said my guess is this is more of a hands on crime without alot of need for clean up. JMO. The short length of time the diggers were being used for tells us something though.

 

[Esma]

I firmly believe that she was going somewhere with him and the baby for dinner and I think that her mother has been told not to talk about it by LE.

Me too, and it wasn’t a restaurant. She was cooking something to bring to a dinner is my belief. She wanted to make and bring something her mother probably made for Thanksgiving’s is my guess.

 

[MassGuy]

this guy appears incredibly arrogant and hotheaded. I think he could have driven the body to Idaho on TG or the next day, maybe overnight. There are backroads through northern CO that can get you to Wyoming and then on to Idaho. She could be anywhere in NoCO or WY. One day they will find bones like they did with Dylan Redwine (Mark Redwine is finally going to trial in Feb!!!).

Yeah. That’s partially why I’m so torn. There are “usual rules” but they don’t always apply.

This very well could be an exception.

 

[cluciano63]

In most (not all) cases that have been tried without finding the victim, there has been some sort of a crime scene or a confession.imo.

I remember googling a while back and found a list of dozens of cases over the decades, nearly all had blood evidence or a confession as to what had happened, with the body no longer being accessible.

 

[moonlessnight]

it's amazing. they think they are smarter than the last psychopath who was an arrogant idiot and got caught. They all think they are different, smarter, and better than the others who are exactly like them.

Yeah. That’s partially why I’m so torn. There are “usual rules” but they don’t always apply.

This very well could be an exception.

 

[MassGuy]

it's amazing. they think they are smarter than the last psychopath who was an arrogant idiot and got caught. They all think they are different, smarter, and better than the others who are exactly like them.

Yup. It takes a particular arrogance to believe that you can get away with murder.

Fortunately, it doesn’t usually work out in cases like this.

 

[Janieva]

I have the same ones, bought at the local hardware store. We do dump runs once a week so we store them in those bins and then load them on the truck to dump.
But I agree, this big trailer full of trash is far more than a normal weekly residential trash run and it makes you wonder what's in it and where he stored it. I'm wondering if he had hidden some things offsite in that trailer and then after the search was over, took it to WM to dump it.

If this happened, wouldn’t he have not gone with them to the WM, knowing he would be seen, even if in the truck? He also may have stayed in the white truck, knowing media would be watching him.

 

[chuppa74]

I'm not alarmed by the condition of the house or yard. I think "sloppy" is perfectly normal in this area.....

Yup. I'm in Colorado and one thing to remember is that water is very expensive here. You don't have grass unless your lot is very tiny, and then you have to have a sprinkler system, use it several times a week, and pay a fortune for it. The horse properties near me south of Denver look very much like PF's. Some are xeriscaped with drought-resistant plants but most are a combination of scrubby vegetation and dirt, even though the houses may be very nice.

 

[Seattle1]

I would expect that the body made atleast part of the trip.
What troubles me a bit, is that I think she had already been dead since some point on Thanksgiving.
Most people don’t like to hold on to a body for that length of time.
So I’m a bit stuck here.

What we have here is somewhat of a perfect storm: a holiday weekend where increased road travel is expected, and where there would be nothing odd about seeing Colorado plates stopped along a Wyoming or Idaho roadway. Just blending in. And then there's non verbal communication allegedly sent to PF and the employer, which seem more staged and reactionary than purposeful. Unlike contact to family and/or friends, this was communication where no response was expected. Communication all staged to delay knowledge of one missing, and distance oneself from any follow-up activity.

I believe it would be very easy to lose a body in vast Wyoming on 11/22-23, and only going as far as Gooding, Idaho insures a quick return to Colorado before you'd ever be missed. MOO

ETA: It's only 2 hours to Wyoming state line

 

[MyBelle]

I think it more likely that the whole family would have gone back to the family home for Thanksgiving, even if the younger females of the family did the cooking of the meal.

I don't. Thanksgiving is a lot of work made ahead of time and Grandmas get to pass the torch. We had Thanksgiving at our son's home. We let them do the work. Family recipes are meant to be handed down. JMO

 

[susiQ]

I know they can convict without a body, but it's much easier with one. Plus, they like the closure for the family and the respect of a proper burial for the victim.

Of course, this is their goal. A family needs closure but sadly it doesn't always happen. I too hope they find her, but if they can't, I hope they nail "whoever" did this through whatever means possible.

 

[NanZDrew]

I'm sincerely curious. Where are the landfills in the left side of the photo? All I see is open desert range land, some businesses and a section of houses. Coulson Lake is just east out of the crop of that Google Earth photo. Colorado would allow landfill dump sites that close to a lake and private houses?

It appears to be the open desert land behind all of the buildings. All, or most of these buildings, look like they are municipal buildings. Jail, public works, WM. There is a little pond that looks like where the leachate is collected. That would be rainfall that comes out of the landfill that would go through a wastewater treatment process. Landfills have liners that contain the waste materials and each day they are covered. Usually people pass by them and never know what they are. They may take it elsewhere, but it wouldn't make sense. From that municipal area there are dirt roads that lead around it. Do you know if Coulson Lake is a recreational lake?

 

[sassyblue]

Yes there are differences. Idaho soil has traces of potatoes and Colorado soil has traces of pot!

Haha you made me laugh. I lived in Eastern CO for a short time before moving to ID. I've planted many trees in both states so I became very familiar with the soil and it's very different between the two states.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a couple of theories. Not sure I want to go there just yet.

I have one idea. Not quite about the daughter. But could explain the day starting as voluntarily traveling with PF, and the trip suddenly turning bad.

It would be interesting to know how religious PF was.

 

[borndem]

I know this is only about his emotions:

When he told the reporter to get off his property, he came off as an arrogant person with a bad temper.

When the reporter was in his face asking him questions as he was trying to drive away, he looked like he was about to LOSE IT. He appeared to have a hard time “keeping it together”.

Innocent (or even guilty), I’d expect him to be putting on more of a concerned front, given that the mother of his child is missing. He wouldn’t have to even say anything to convey a sympathetic demeanor.

Instead, he comes across as an agitated person with a bad attitude.

Perhaps he’s irritated that he’s being hounded by LE and the media, if he’s innocent. Although, coming across miffed doesn’t look good in the eyes of the public when the mother of your child is missing.

If he’s guilty, he must be confident that they’ll never find the body, given his smug behavior.

If KB broke up with him on Thanksgiving, I could imagine him doing something ugly out of rage. Being home with the baby while KB continues to outearn him and dates other men could have been something his ego couldn’t handle taking.

bbm
They're always confident that they'll never find the body. Some of us remember very recently Chris Watts' little talk on the porch of his home very early in the case. Mr. Smooth, smiling, a laugh or two. And a couple of days later, the poor, poor man <choke> was all to pieces and telling a new story, and then another story. He's in the jailhouse now. For life.
Watts thread:
GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67
-----------------
It seems that so many of the husbands, fiancés, boyfriends (yes, it's usually the men who have this attitude, IMO) are so cocky, and it's often due to their own Narcissism or sociopathology, etc. They think LE is dumb and will never figure it out...

We'll just have to be patient and hope that we see her alive and well.

 

[MyBelle]

Yeah, I agree.

Two things trouble me.

I mentioned this, but most people don’t like to hold on to dead bodies for any length of time.

2-3 days is a long time.

Most killers don’t like to travel a long distance with a body in their possession.

If the usual rules apply, that body should be a hell of a lot closer to home than Idaho.

That phone activity and her body, may not be close together.

I agree. Plus, PF had no idea when her parents might show up. He had to act fast in disposal of her body. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

What we have here is somewhat of a perfect storm: a holiday weekend where increased road travel is expected, and where there would be nothing odd about seeing Colorado plates stopped along a Wyoming or Idaho roadway. Just blending in. And then there's non verbal communication allegedly sent to PF and the employer, which seem more staged and reactionary than purposeful. Unlike contact to family and/or friends, this was communication where no response was expected. Communication all staged to delay knowledge of one missing, and distance follow-up activity from PF and home.

I believe it would be very easy to lose a body in vast Wyoming on 11/22-23, and only going as far as Gooding, Idaho insures a quick return to Colorado before you'd ever be missed. MOO

That’s a solid point.

I keep forgetting about the fact that it was a holiday weekend.

That does change things considerably.

 

[alucardsdream]

it's amazing. they think they are smarter than the last psychopath who was an arrogant idiot and got caught. They all think they are different, smarter, and better than the others who are exactly like them.

What's scary is how well people manage to hide their psychotic tendencies. We see it all the time...someone gets arrested for an insanely hideous crime and all the neighbors do is say how the killer was such a nice person and not someone they expected to be a killer.

 

[Cherokee]

It appears to be the open desert land behind all of the buildings. All, or most of these buildings, look like they are municipal buildings. Jail, public works, WM. There is a little pond that looks like where the leachate is collected. That would be rainfall that comes out of the landfill that would go through a wastewater treatment process. Landfills have liners that contain the waste materials and each day they are covered. Usually people pass by them and never know what they are. They may take it elsewhere, but it wouldn't make sense. From that municipal area there are dirt roads that lead around it. Do you know if Coulson Lake is a recreational lake?

Yes, it is and is a known fishing spot.

Coulson Lake Fishing near Woodland Park, Colorado | HookandBullet.com

Description for Coulson Lake, Teller County, Colorado
Coulson Lake is a reservoir located just 5.9 miles from Woodland Park, in Teller County, in the state of Colorado, United States, near Divide, CO. Fishermen will find a variety of fish including lake trout and others here. Whether you’re fly fishing, spinning or trolling your chances of getting a bite here are good. So grab your favorite fly fishing rod and reel, and head out to Coulson Lake. For Fishing License purchase, fishing rules, and fishing regulations please visit Colorado Fish & Wildlife. Please remember to check with the local Fish and Wildlife department to ensure the stream is open to the public. Now get out there and fish! Check out our Fishing Times chart to determine when the fish will be most active.

 

[LietKynes]

Or they were all going to his brothers maybe, I think they were getting together with his family for thanksgiving and that’s why she needed a recipe and to shop for whatever her mother said she was making that day. I believe this is really what she meant by dinner ‘out’ but wouldn’t elaborate on. LE likely didn’t want this revealed for whatever reason.

SABBM

Good point.
So, if she supposedly left the very day they were planning some sort of get together for the holidays ... didn't anyone else in the PF family ask where she was and what was going on ??
I'm wondering if LE talked to anyone else on the ex/fiances' side......

 

[Safeguard]

Yup. It takes a particular arrogance to believe that you can get away with murder.

Fortunately, it doesn’t usually work out in cases like this.

Oh I don't know. I bet a lot people actually DO get away with murder. We just don't hear about those (for obvious reasons).