CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #16 *ARREST*

[Deleted member 155000]

New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick

Thank you, but I have yet to see an Order from the Court denying the Defendant’s Motion to Limit the Pre-Trial Publicity. IMO, a reporter misunderstood.

The media coverage in this case is really keeping us on our toes. Geesh.

 

[Scoutce]

It’s crossed my mind that there’s a possibility that there never was a planned exchange. That info came from PF correct?

I don’t know. But I do have a theory they exchanged at Safeway and that’s why she brought in the car seat and why no exit video was realeased. Maybe even though she was off work she still wanted the child to experience a family celebration for Thanksgiving so she agreed to let her go for a few hours. He could have dropped off the child to SF then gone back to the townhouse and killed KB. In my theory he then goes for a brief appearance at a Thanksgiving meal before going back to clean up. All of course MOO.

Edited to say SF - mistakenly put SB

 

[Mercedes]

Ahhhh. Response is not a Motion, right? Thanks

The Response is a response, or a reply if you will, to a motion.

First: Defendant filed a motion, or moved the Court, to deny pre-trial publicity.

Second: The People, i.e., the D.A., has a right to answer or respond to the Defendant’s motion. The D.A. cannot deny the Defendant’s Motion, he can only say why he thinks the Motion should be denied.

Then the Court reviews both the Motion and the Response, and schedules a time for both sides to orally argue their points. The Court will either rule on the Motion at that time, ask each side to submit briefs, or rule on it at a later time. However, keep in mind that sometimes the parties agree.

 

[kkdj]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip - response to removed post>

I could care less about any aspect of the case or those involved, other than a remote sympathy toward the loved ones of KB, sorrow for her now-parentless child, and a deep and abiding interest in all things relating to criminal law (especially those with mysterious aspects). I have lived in South Carolina for the past 7 years and in Virginia/Tennessee for 39 years prior to that. In other words - extremely disconnected.

To @heartgoesout : I am not an attorney, but I have done legal research for several attorneys and various private parties over the past decade (primarily family law and criminal law issues). All these attorneys and private parties were east of the Mississippi River and did not have any connection to anyone connected with the KB disappearance (to further state the "disconnect").

@BessDrew asked: Just curious - why did you ask so many questions about CB and not PF? <modsnip - refers to snipped statement> (Sorry for not "quoting" it.)

PF's father has not ever been mentioned, as far as I know. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

No one has stepped forward to claim, as they have with KB, that his family is close knit, speaks regularly, or has strong and intimate family ties. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

Also - has it been mentioned yet (in these threads) that PF's attorney is now Adam Steigerwald, a public defender? Jeremy Loew stepped down as private counsel some time within the past couple of days (I think). In that same linked article about Steigerwald, the District Attorney also clarified Colorado's solicitation statute ("steps taken to see it through" and something done "to show the firmness of your actions").

Great post!
And welcome!

 

[Mercedes]

The DA’s Office (People’s Response) has responded to Defendant Frazee’s Motion to limit pre-trial publicity. The DA alleges/argues that Def has not shown sufficient evidence/reason for the Court to grant this Motion and, furthermore, the DA argues that there is no need for a hearing (before the Court) on this Motion/Request.

This does not mean that the Motion has been denied, just that the DA’s Office opposes it. The Court will need to decide if the Motion (filed by the Def) has merit and should be granted. I read somewhere in these posts that the Def’s Motion was denied, but it has not been. The Court has not yet ruled (that I have seen).

IMO

Bump

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t know. But I do have a theory they exchanged at Safeway and that’s why she brought in the car seat and why no exit video was realeased. Maybe even though she was off work she still wanted the child to experience a family celebration for Thanksgiving so she agreed to let her go for a few hours. He could have dropped off the child to SB then gone back to the townhouse and killed KB. In my theory he then goes for a brief appearance at a Thanksgiving meal before going back to clean up. All of course MOO.

The purpose of the video was to give the best angle of her last appearance in public.

It showed what she looked like, and that she had her baby with her.

Had law enforcement had visual proof that his account (taking custody of child later) was a lie, I think they would have requested witnesses to come forward.

It’s far more likely that the exchange happened at her house, not long after she returned from Safeway.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that the murder occurred at this point as well.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Well fellow sleuthers, I'm off to start celebrating the holiday.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

Merry Christmas

 

[katydid23]

I don’t know. But I do have a theory they exchanged at Safeway and that’s why she brought in the car seat and why no exit video was realeased. Maybe even though she was off work she still wanted the child to experience a family celebration for Thanksgiving so she agreed to let her go for a few hours. He could have dropped off the child to SB then gone back to the townhouse and killed KB. In my theory he then goes for a brief appearance at a Thanksgiving meal before going back to clean up. All of course MOO.

Those are my thoughts too. As soon as I saw her wielding that car seat, with a 15 month old inside of it, I thought she was meeting up with PF at the store or outside soon.

Ans the original reports all said they exchanged custody at the market. But then it changed soon after in later articles.

And I agree, that she probably allowed him to take the baby to a family get together, but she expected to have her dropped off again right afterwards. It was her day off, and he had her during her many working hours. I am sure she wanted to spend some quality time with her baby on her vacation time.

 

[riolove77]

Hi Jazzy, I apologize if it appeared I generalized traumatic brain injury (TBI). I didn’t say ALL head injuries present like this. I also noted these were my thoughts related to this situation with him. Obviously there are degrees of severity, areas impacted, plasticity of the brain, and underlying personality traits. This also goes with mental health, there is no broad presentation. My posts in the past 7 years show I don’t categorize people based on things like this.

In this situation, I could see how this could snowball into murder as he had issues with a TBI. This is based on what I’ve read in MSM and on here and my clinical experience. Also personal experience. We don’t know if this was premeditated, what the soliciting was in relationship too, or if this was cold blooded. We don’t know what happened. It could have been in the moment, and LE is sticking anything the can on him to hold him. Apologies if I didn’t express my ideas more succinctly. Thanks

BBM. With all due respect, LE can't just stick whatever they can to hold him, and if they already have him on Murder 1, they don't need to tack on Solicitation just to hold him. Further, we do know the soliciting was in relation to the murder, because the charge is specifically Solicitation to Commit First Degree Murder. No heat of the moment.

 

[katydid23]

The purpose of the video was to give the best angle of her last appearance in public.

It showed what she looked like, and that she had her baby with her.

Had law enforcement had visual proof that his account (taking custody of child later) was a lie, I think they would have requested witnesses to come forward.

It’s far more likely that the exchange happened at her house, not long after she returned from Safeway.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to learn that the murder occurred at this point as well.

I think BOTH things could be true. She handed off the baby to him at the store, and expected he would drop her off later that afternoon. But then he went and unexpectedly 'visited' her at home, right as she arrived back from the store. And things went bad. Just a potential scenario kicking around in my head..

 

[WildWest]

The Response is a response to a motion.

First: Defendant filed a motion, or moved the Court, to deny pre-trial publicity.

Second: The People, i.e., the D.A., has a right to answer or respond to the Defendant’s motion. The D.A. cannot deny the Defendant’s Motion, he can only say why he thinks the Motion should be denied.

Then the Court reviews both the Motion and the Response, and schedules a time for both sides to orally argue their points. The Court will either rule on the Motion at that time, ask each side to submit briefs, or rule on it at a later time. However, keep in mind that sometimes the parties agree.

Thank you, I needed this one spelled out for me. I appreciate your time

 

[MassGuy]

I think BOTH things could be true. She handed off the baby to him at the store, and expected he would drop her off later that afternoon. But then he went and unexpectedly 'visited' her at home, right as she arrived back from the store. And things went bad. Just a potential scenario kicking around in my head..

For me, this comes down to the search warrant served at his house.

Had he been caught in a lie like this, it’s quite significant.

I would expect that this would open the door to an earlier search.

@riolove77 what do you think? Would this be enough?

ETA: If he did in fact lie about this, and LE wasn’t simply keeping it quiet.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Ahhhh. Response is not a Motion, right? Thanks

No, it’s a request from the prosecution (“the people”) that the motion be denied. The court hasn’t ruled either way on the motion yet.

 

[Elley Mae]

Someone said they saw something that they couldn’t access or something.

....

That child has since been placed in protective custody. According to a court docket, Berreth had a temporary custody hearing scheduled for Dec. 27.

New documents released in case against Kelsey Berreth’s fiancé

 

[1&2&3]

We must remember that everything we know about the last day of interaction, Thanksgiving Day, between PF and EB comes from the mouth of PF. Everything he has said may be a lie! The story is suited to fit his timeframe.

With EB’s mother saying EB and baby were having dinner later in the day with PF, my opinion is that an exchange was never in the plans. Remember, PF said EB dropped baby off at his house.

 

[Trudie]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip - response to removed post>

I could care less about any aspect of the case or those involved, other than a remote sympathy toward the loved ones of KB, sorrow for her now-parentless child, and a deep and abiding interest in all things relating to criminal law (especially those with mysterious aspects). I have lived in South Carolina for the past 7 years and in Virginia/Tennessee for 39 years prior to that. In other words - extremely disconnected.

To @heartgoesout : I am not an attorney, but I have done legal research for several attorneys and various private parties over the past decade (primarily family law and criminal law issues). All these attorneys and private parties were east of the Mississippi River and did not have any connection to anyone connected with the KB disappearance (to further state the "disconnect").

@BessDrew asked: Just curious - why did you ask so many questions about CB and not PF? <modsnip - refers to snipped statement> (Sorry for not "quoting" it.)

PF's father has not ever been mentioned, as far as I know. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

No one has stepped forward to claim, as they have with KB, that his family is close knit, speaks regularly, or has strong and intimate family ties. <modsnip - sleuthing family>

Also - has it been mentioned yet (in these threads) that PF's attorney is now Adam Steigerwald, a public defender? Jeremy Loew stepped down as private counsel some time within the past couple of days (I think). In that same linked article about Steigerwald, the District Attorney also clarified Colorado's solicitation statute ("steps taken to see it through" and something done "to show the firmness of your actions").
.

Amen.
Outside the box thinker!

 

[FunkyMonkey]

That is correct, but look at the source. His buddy might not have all the information. As an ER nurse in my past, it’d be a miracle if he didn’t have some type of concussive episode from that kick. And if post-concussion care isn’t followed to a T, you can have lasting issues. And looking at how he is described by people, and that I work with TBI people daily, I can see the markers there that this is a huge possibility. Is it speculative, yes, in a way, but I can use my clinical expertise to evaluate markers suggesting this. I’m not diagnosing, but the markers are there to suggest this..and it’s my own opinion too.

True, but I’m curious to know if he was a hothead before the kick too.

 

[Thinker22]

I think BOTH things could be true. She handed off the baby to him at the store, and expected he would drop her off later that afternoon. But then he went and unexpectedly 'visited' her at home, right as she arrived back from the store. And things went bad. Just a potential scenario kicking around in my head..

I wonder if there's a 2nd body out there somewhere. Maybe PF found 2 people at the condo and went into a jealous rage...

 

[riolove77]

The defense filed this motion on 12/21 to limit pretrial publicity: https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/Motion To Limit Pretrial.pdf

The prosecution filed their response today, 12/24: https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/001/P-5 People's Response to Defendant's Motion to Limit Pre-Trial Publicity.pdf

The court has not ruled on the motion: Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller - Cases of Interest - The People of the State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee

This report is incorrect:
New court documents in State of Colorado v. Patrick Frazee
Frazee is being denied a request to limit pretrial publicity.

Yeah I mean logistically, the defense filed theirs on Friday and the People today...the judge almost couldn't have ruled on it if he/she wanted to lol.

 

[EmilyVan]

My wording was bad! What kind of evidence do you think LE has to make the claim she is dead. Assuming he cleaned the scene where she died, it seems unlikely there'd be enough blood to make that call.

DNA in and on many many pieces of evidence LE carried out of her home