Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #39

[mtnlites]

A black SUV of the wide range of years and two possible models is probably even more common than an old red taurus. imo. so i do not see where the number of calls would have increased with the taurus over a generic black SUV. again, jmo.

I agree. I went to the grocery yesterday and laughed because the row I parked in was nothing but black SUVs. Since I drive one as well, I had to pause to figure out which one was mine. If we're talking about the number of people who have such a vehicle, I would think that just as many (if not more) have a black SUV as those who have a red Ford Taurus (I had a white one myself).

 

[ilovechili]

Without a license plate number that would have been like looking for a needle in a haystack. JMO

So was looking for a black SUV a needle in a haystack, just saying. And the Taurus was passed by LE per the perp within 20 seconds of him leaving the driveway? It could be a witness in the area if nothing else. The SUV had no plates provided either two possible models and a wide range of years. Not getting down on LE maybe there was a good reason, just think it should be looked at in hindsight and for future cases (of which in a perfect world, there would be none)... But it is easier to be an armchair quarterback...

 

[JCzMum]

Grandfather of suspect states, “...Computer games were more of a priority than social interaction."


Father of suspect says, “"All I care about right now is Jayme's family. I want to get them a note," he said, declining to provide more details on the letter and apologizing for not being able to say more.



https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/01/16/us...ther-letter/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/

 

[enelram]

Do we know from marines specifically what incongruant actually meant... was he too out of shape, couldn’t handle weapons, surly with superiors. I’m not saying Marines we’re breaking point but if he went full metal jacket cause of an incident you’d think we’d hear ???? Maybe he had big hopes for marines and it was nightmare.... dunno Just bizarre u spend 30 days with what 20/30 people and your gone ... nobody pops up with explaination.

I’d bet if u ask him why he failed in the marines his tone would change.

We'll probably never hear the real reason. I know someone
w/ a sketchy background who was accepted by Marines, but
bounced into a hospital during basic training and he tells
people he had a "medical" problem that got him discharged.

 

[CuriousMaine]

There are also many people that suffer from some type of mental illness. Sometimes they can't work, or are very socially awkward but that rarely makes them dangerous. A lot of people that have mental health issues you wouldn't even notice unless they told you about their problems. Redflags as you pointed out could be everywhere depending on what you look for.

Absolutely! I often find myself having to remind folks that statistically, people with any type of mental illness are by far, more likely to be the victims of crime(s) than they are to be a perpetrator.

Hindsight is 20/20, and a lot of people understandably are searching for signals and someone or something to blame; but honestly, we're likely to find that there is nothing anyone could have done differently that would have predicted or prevented such a rare violent crime without sacrificing the lives, health and liberty of a lot of innocent, non-violent people.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Was he really caught by then?

I think the OP is confusing 2 different Sheriff departments from 2 different counties. The quote about driving at 100mph comes from the Douglas county authorities who arrested JP. Not Barron county where the initial murders and kidnapping occurred.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes. You're a fully grown adult. Not a terrorized child who just saw her parents get their heads blown off by the same guy now telling her to stay put or he will do bad things to her.

Are we really questioning this child? It's not Stockholm. It's not brainwashing. It's terror. Terrorizing a child.

Thank you.

The mental chains of paralyzing fear is much stronger than any binding material ever made.

Imo

 

[sun16]

The Patterson house looks pretty decent sized. If JP was the only person living in the house (?) why was his room in the crappy basement with a tiny twin bed? Or was he using a larger, master bedroom upstairs until the Jayme abduction? How much of the house did he truly control and use (versus daddy who came over) and clearly others leaving their cars in the driveway. I doubt JP was insured to use sister’s car. Bet she wasn’t pleased to find out how JP used her car for bad deeeds.

 

[Springb16]

And then my theory on the Taurus. I've mentioned some other logical possibilities before, just trying to rule things out, but this is what I think.

First I think they did think the Taurus could be the bad guy, when they reviewed the cams. But they didn't have much info about it. An older burgundy Taurus or something similar is a pretty vague description, and they didn't have a plate to go by. They were trying to get better views from cams, and possibly from the parties in the "vehicles of interest." Meanwhile though, they had profiles of the bad guy from the FBI. I expect the profiles included that he thought he was smarter than LE. Not even mentioning the Taurus, would reinforce that he'd outsmarted them. They knew he'd be watching the coverage. So by looking clueless, and getting some of the facts wrong, the profilers would be telling them, he'd be smug with delight. Maybe a lot of the things they said were designed to tell him "we don't have a clue!" Such as searching west, when he drove east. Naming other cars, then saying they're not sure about the cars afterall. Why would they do that? Maybe the profile said, that if he thought they were on to him he'd just kill her. And that Jayme's best chance of being alive at the outcome was if he let his guard down and she had the opportunity to escape. Maybe that's why the weird messages in the press conference with the aunts & Molly. They figured he was watching, and maybe Jayme had a chance to watch too. In case she did, telling her, come home. Get away! They were right. If they had come busting down his door, would Jayme have survived? It's been frustrating as heck for us trying to figure stuff out with no information, but what if that no information was carefully calculated not for us, but for the bad guy? JMO

This is what I think happened. I think the profiler thing is spot on. They knew if they didn't say anything Jayme had a better chance of survival. I think JP would have had no problem killing her if he thought law enforcement were getting close.

 

[bellyup]

The Patterson house looks pretty decent sized. If JP was the only person living in the house (?) why was his room in the crappy basement with a tiny twin bed? Or was he using a larger, master bedroom upstairs until the Jayme abduction?

I don’t think we have any evidence that the room shown in photos in the lower level is where he slept or where he kept Jayme. One of the tabloids just suspected that. I don’t think the room he was in has appeared in photos (could be wrong) based on the description in the statement.

 

[Gracie55]

Excellent post. I agree completely.
Someone asked why these behaviors didn't show up earlier like in
HS and seemed to erupt after HS. I believe it's because the
perp was under control or living with the disciplining parent and
would have hell to pay if they acted out at that time.

When later after HS, perp is living on his own and no one looking
over his shoulder, except to grouse about no job.
Definitely daddy problems for many years.

His odd behavior stands out to me after reading about his dead animal fixation. He was preoccupied with death. It would've made me as a parent or family member uneasy. Apparently it made an impression on the girlfriend.

Maybe living alone in the old family home surrounded by the ghosts of a vanished family life twisted him, or maybe the sum of a million little instances made him cross the line into such a crime. People are different and every person is the sum of a million little genetic and environmental factors. What impacts one might not affect others, just like you're allergic to poison ivy while I can roll in it.

Could he have been manipulative enough to be "playing" his folks into him being in a rent free bill free situation in which he played out his fantasy? Guilt over their divorce would make one or both vulnerable to his manipulation. People don't generally just one day become manipulative so could be a clue to him.

Maybe right at the time he needed guidance his parents were embroiled in their own issues, or maybe HIS issues caused their discord or part of it.

MOO.

It just seems wrong to point fingers at his family. I cant help but feel sympathy for them.

There maybe was dysfunction in the home, but don't we all to some degree? (I ask what we're reading as I speak. Why are we drawn here?)

 

[ilovechili]

I agree. I went to the grocery yesterday and laughed because the row I parked in was nothing but black SUVs. Since I drive one as well, I had to pause to figure out which one was mine. If we're talking about the number of people who have such a vehicle, I would think that just as many (if not more) have a black SUV as those who have a red Ford Taurus (I had a white one myself).

lol exactly my point. i will bet money the old red ford tauruses are around but that a black black SUV is far more common.

 

[Past Mortem]

Wasn't it posted upthread somewhere that JP had people over that didn't recognize Jayme?

Agree, what he did was just brutal to say the least.

So I think I possibly know where this came from if it hasn't already been discussed, but in the 911 transcript, JN says "Just asked her. She said all the people that hang out at his house apparently do not know who she is."

The transcript I just got this from doesn't say this next part, but it's at approximately 15:45 on the 911 call when JN says the above, but then I'm fairly sure she almost corrects what she says under her breath or to someone else in the room (most likely Jayme). I just listened to it again and can't quite make it out now, but last night when I listened I heard JN say something along the line of "...don't know she's there" almost as though Jayme corrected her from saying "...do not know who she is". If this is the case, maybe this is where the confusion has come from potentially with people thinking it's been implied somewhere that his friends saw her.

Or, I was hallucinating and hearing things last night as a result of being waaaay too deep in this case! Which is very possible.

 

[heed101]

Your last sentence is spot on-
"the Marines-- something he wanted more than anything and they
DIDN't WANT HIM".
Long term feelings of rejection plays a heavy role in this perp.
Often male children who weren't wanted or accepted, develop
undeniable feelings of not fitting in, not worthy, no value and
then when disciplined or over-disciplined for small acts,
grow up festering these feeling and when free start to act them out.
In his mind he's paying back all those who treated him like
scum as a child.
This took a long time to fester.

So true...also, his mom remarried 2 months ago/wonder if that had any impact....

https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/mom-of-jayme-closss-alleged-kidnapper-is-totally-distraught/

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

And then my theory on the Taurus. I've mentioned some other logical possibilities before, just trying to rule things out, but this is what I think.

First I think they did think the Taurus could be the bad guy, when they reviewed the cams. But they didn't have much info about it. An older burgundy Taurus or something similar is a pretty vague description, and they didn't have a plate to go by. They were trying to get better views from cams, and possibly from the parties in the "vehicles of interest." Meanwhile though, they had profiles of the bad guy from the FBI. I expect the profiles included that he thought he was smarter than LE. Not even mentioning the Taurus, would reinforce that he'd outsmarted them. They knew he'd be watching the coverage. So by looking clueless, and getting some of the facts wrong, the profilers would be telling them, he'd be smug with delight. Maybe a lot of the things they said were designed to tell him "we don't have a clue!" Such as searching west, when he drove east. Naming other cars, then saying they're not sure about the cars afterall. Why would they do that? Maybe the profile said, that if he thought they were on to him he'd just kill her. And that Jayme's best chance of being alive at the outcome was if he let his guard down and she had the opportunity to escape. Maybe that's why the weird messages in the press conference with the aunts & Molly. They figured he was watching, and maybe Jayme had a chance to watch too. In case she did, telling her, come home. Get away! They were right. If they had come busting down his door, would Jayme have survived? It's been frustrating as heck for us trying to figure stuff out with no information, but what if that no information was carefully calculated not for us, but for the bad guy? JMO

Plausible theory. Much like 10+ plausible theories that were floated here about what was potentially behind what went down at the Closs home. LE in this case has certainly shown it doesn't mind patting itself on the back, so I'm sure we'll quickly hear from those authorities, if indeed, your theory is accurate.

 

[Skigirl]

So I think I possibly know where this came from if it hasn't already been discussed, but in the 911 transcript, JN says "Just asked her. She said all the people that hang out at his house apparently do not know who she is."

The transcript I just got this from doesn't say this next part, but it's at approximately 15:45 on the 911 call when JN says the above, but then I'm fairly sure she almost corrects what she says under her breath or to someone else in the room (most likely Jayme). I just listened to it again and can't quite make it out now, but last night when I listened I heard JN say something along the line of "...don't know she's there" almost as though Jayme corrected her from saying "...do not know who she is". If this is the case, maybe this is where the confusion has come from potentially with people thinking it's been implied somewhere that his friends saw her.

Or, I was hallucinating and hearing things last night as a result of being waaaay too deep in this case! Which is very possible.

I also heard the correction, "don't know she's there" and I think it came from the room, like maybe Jayme muttered the correction and then KK (the homeowner), who I think was sitting next to her on the couch, amplified it in case it was relevant. By then, the call was moving on.

 

[Past Mortem]

I also heard the correction, "don't know she's there" and I think it came from the room, like maybe Jayme muttered the correction and then KK (the homeowner), who I think was sitting next to her on the couch, amplified it in case it was relevant. By then, the call was moving on.

Good to know I'm not losing my marbles

 

[CuriousMaine]

Am i misremembering that when LE first showed up to the crime scene they thought suicide? Dont you realize within seconds when you don't find a gun near either body in conjunction with the screams on the 911 call that its something way bigger ? Sure the Taurus didn't have front license plates but it was the only car you drove past and you knew direction. Just bothers me maybe i am wrong on the original 911 communication

That initial "possible suicide" assessment was communicated to dispatch before they entered (cleared) the home. It was likely based on past experience (a recent Barron Cty double homicide and suicide a year prior in a domestic violence case) and the fact the first responding officers had little information to go on, sans "hang up call with lots of yelling" (ETA) similar to the previously mentioned case.

 

[Sjm_qc]

The Patterson house looks pretty decent sized. If JP was the only person living in the house (?) why was his room in the crappy basement with a tiny twin bed? Or was he using a larger, master bedroom upstairs until the Jayme abduction? How much of the house did he truly control and use (versus daddy who came over) and clearly others leaving their cars in the driveway. I doubt JP was insured to use sister’s car. Bet she wasn’t pleased to find out how JP used her car for bad deeeds.

We do not know that the “basement” room shown in photos published by tabloids is JP’s room, nor do we know whether that is the room he held JC in.

Heck, we don’t even know that it’s a “basement room”, given the outlets which published the photos and their penchant for sensationalism.

 

[zecats]

So true...also, his mom remarried 2 months ago/wonder if that had any impact....

https://nypost.com/2019/01/15/mom-of-jayme-closss-alleged-kidnapper-is-totally-distraught/

She remarried 2 months ago? Jayme was already in captivity at this time. That would be sometime in November. I wonder if he left Jayme hidden and attended the wedding? This is the first I've heard of this so not aware of details, actual date, etc.