CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

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This case has never been a complex case, well not to me anyway, but is a pretty straight forward one.

Someone mentioned that others may not be open minded due to feeling CM was guilty all along.

In that same premise, it can also be said that others may be close minded as well, due to having their own suspect in mind for years before CM was arrested, and charged, and he wasn't the suspect they were convinced was the guilty one. Some may have a dislike for prosecutors based on totally different cases entirely.

I have made it clear that I became very suspicious of CMs involvement once seeing his CNN interview. So, yes, I was one of the few not shocked when he had been arrested.

That doesn't make me closed minded though. I absolutely do feel the state must prove this man guilty, BARD. A family of 4 was destroyed along with their very promising bright future, obtainable goals, and dreams.

The stakes are too high for me to be close minded. I don't have the need to have my own personal opinions confirmed.

That sure would be a form of confirmation bias if I only cared about having my own opinion confirmed or validated and it becoming more important than seeking true justice for all 4 victims.

Where I may differ than some or even most is I DO believe they are submitting powerful CE that can't be explained away pointing to his guilt.

BUT, IF the defense can put forth compelling evidence either showing someone entirely was involved, and CM is an innocent man, supported with concrete evidence, rather than mere claims, like often made by DTs without proof, then I certainly WILL take notice immediately weighing it very carefully.

Imo, It has nothing to do with having any opinions validated, or having to be right.

In the end, it is all about justice being served for this family who were so brutally, and sadistically murdered no matter who did it.

I think we all seek justice for the McStay family, and that can only happen if the RIGHT person is held accountable.

As of now based on the evidence submitted thus far, CM is the only one on the planet, that knew what had really happened to Joey, and his family on the 4th, when no one else did.

This has been proven imo based on what he did, and when he did it all, and no one else did.

Everyone else didn't understand why all of a sudden Joey had vanished into thin air. It was only CM, who was putting his hands in Joey's off limits, cookie jar.

The same man that had such a dismissive attitude about his best friend's whereabouts when others couldn't understand why Joey suddenly went silent as a tomb or a desert grave, and were very concerned since it was so unlike Joey.

So of course they asked CM because they knew, he, and Joey were in contact everyday. They knew if ANYONE knew where Joey was it would be CM. But what does he tell them..more or less... oh shucks... he ain't worried about it at all, and told them he would go check it out at the end of the week which would be many days later.

So if the defense can show why he continued to have sticky fingers in Joey's money, and how he knew Joey wouldn't be back to stop any of it, I'm certainly willing to listen to all of that evidence, But not fanciful excuses or unsupported mumbo jumbo of ridiculously claiming 'Joey told me I could or because Joey said so.'

Based on the evidence already entered they won't believe that childish excuse for one second. They have already heard way too much about who CM is. Imo, if they try to be dismissive or try to diminish the seriousness of his own actions, and what he alone did it will not bode well for the defense. Imo, it is insulting the jurors intelligence.

So I remain open to see if any of the evidence will be brought forth by the defense that convinces me
CM has been unfairly targeted, and just happens to be nothing more than the most unluckiest man on earth.

So far they have failed, imo, but we will see.

Imo
 
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Based on the evidence already entered they won't believe that childish excuse for one second. They have already heard way too much about who CM is. Imo, if they try to be dismissive or try to diminish the seriousness of his own actions, and what he alone did it will not bode well for the defense. Imo, it is insulting the jurors intelligence.

Imo

Talking about insulting to the jurors intelligence I think asking them to believe that 4 people were bludgeoned to death in the home and then finding no concrete evidence of this happening is insulting to their intelligence.

Stuff like this is why believe even if he is guilty he will get away it as it’s ridiculous.

He is not some master criminal here (we know this as he is awful at fraud) and I don’t believe for once second he could of cleaned that entire house up without leaving traces of blood evidence behind.
 
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But not fanciful excuses or unsupported mumbo jumbo of ridiculously claiming 'Joey told me I could or because Joey said so.'

Just to zero in on this great point

The defence has the only witness in the whole wide world who can testify to this exact point. What did Joey tell him he could do?

What will cut no ice with me is Counsel claiming Joey allowed this and that without that witness testifying.

Such suggestions should be defenestrated immediately as wild speculation when the very witness who knows the truth is sitting with defence counsel!
 
Talking about insulting to the jurors intelligence I think asking them to believe that 4 people were bludgeoned to death in the home and then finding no concrete evidence of this happening is insulting to their intelligence.

Stuff like this is why believe even if he is guilty he will get away it as it’s ridiculous.

He is not some master criminal here (we know this as he is awful at fraud) and I don’t believe for once second he could of cleaned that entire house up without leaving traces of blood evidence behind.

The is the Knox fallacy.

He didn't need to clean the whole house unless you think he did some murder in every room
 
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Bold and blue by me :)

Yes I brought this up yesterday, it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me. He already accessed the custom account on Feb 1 and Feb 2, created and deleted checks, and cashed one of them. There was no need for a "dry run" on the 4th as has been previously suggested. So it is a mystery as to why he would waste the time doing this, at the crime scene where he just bludgeoned 4 people to death, and had bodies to hide and a crime scene to clean up. I'm not saying he DIDN'T, I don't know if he did or not or if there is another explanation... but I wonder why he would waste his time with this with so much else he needed to do that would be a priority, especially since he could have just done the exact same thing remotely later on (which he actually did).
I haven't seen suggestion that it was a dry run. I have seen suggestions that it was done so that when investigators looked at Joey's bank statement and discovered the cheque that Chase had already cashed on the 2nd, there would be another one in the same style on Joey's machine. Hoping to lead investigators to think Joey gave him the earlier cheque and Joey had started operating his ledger like that, creating and deleting cheques from the custom account.
 
I haven't seen suggestion that it was a dry run. I have seen suggestions that it was done so that when investigators looked at Joey's bank statement and discovered the cheque that Chase had already cashed on the 2nd, there would be another one in the same style on Joey's machine. Hoping to lead investigators to think Joey gave him the earlier cheque and Joey had started operating his ledger like that, creating and deleting cheques from the custom account.

That's what I suspect

And also he knew, today was the last day he could steal, so that is why he printed the cheque and took it away

I think the next day, he realised he could backdate - and then made his fatal error
 
We know that Merritt did impersonate JM since he called with his own phone.

We know he made the call. That's it. That's all we know for certain.

We know that Baker claims he believed he was speaking to Joseph McStay. But we don't know much about Baker. We have no real way of determining how accurate Baker was then, or now.

A recording would have cleared up the mystery. Why wasn't that recording secured by investigators?
 
The is the Knox fallacy.

He didn't need to clean the whole house unless you think he did some murder in every room


I certainly don’t think it was contained to one room. Kids won’t stand around when they hear yelling and so forth.

As we have already heard there should of been blood and a lot of it.

If Chase is that stupid he rings up quickbooks on his own phone than I fail to see him being savvy enough to be able to clean a crime scene when blood splatter is on wood work and other places in the home.
 
That's what I suspect

And also he knew, today was the last day he could steal, so that is why he printed the cheque and took it away

I think the next day, he realised he could backdate - and then made his fatal error

That is an excellent theory. But where is the evidence to support it?
 
Why do you think they didn't charge him with any crimes related to the theft or forgery? And I'm not being a smart a$$ lol I'm really interested to know why they didn't.

This is the one thing that I don't understand with this case. They are saying those crimes are directly related to the murder, yet no charges? I don't believe the statute of limitations had run out in 2014 when they arrested him, because they didn't actually discover the crime until 2013 when they were fully investigating the murder and were able to get search warrants for the banks, QB's, etc. There may have been a lot of rumours from family, Dan, etc. But LE didn't actually have any proof until they were able to get the proper search warrants. So why no charges? Especially if they think that is directly related to the murder.


California's Discovery Rule

It is important to note that the statutory period for bringing a case does not begin until the offense is discovered, or should have been discovered.
California Criminal Statute of Limitations Laws - FindLaw

I have seen a lot of murder cases where they don't bother with the lesser crimes committed during the murder. If you are trying to hand out the Death Penalty or Life Without Parole, it seems petty to put energy and time and resources into a misdemeanor charge, simultaneously. JMO
 
IMO the key to the whole case is whether the same person created the two Paul Mitchell cheques.

Any defence chaff about Chase being authorised to create fraudulent cheques in Quickbooks is largely irrelevant to that question

So maybe you want to believe that Joey created, printed and deleted Paul Mitchell 1 on the night of the 4th before his entire family was murdered.

But then where is the cheque?

So then we know 100% Chase separately created, printed and deleted the Paul Mitchell 2 cheque for a higher amount the next day using different blanks.

For me the deciding factor is that Chase backdated Paul Mitchell 2

That's how we know he had both of them

Do we know whether LE discovered whether the checks were sequentially numbered?
 
I certainly don’t think it was contained to one room. Kids won’t stand around when they hear yelling and so forth.

As we have already heard there should of been blood and a lot of it.

If Chase is that stupid he rings up quickbooks on his own phone than I fail to see him being savvy enough to be able to clean a crime scene when blood splatter is on wood work and other places in the home.

I think the trouble is you are speculating that the crime scene must have been in a certain condition - but we don't know that

This is why instead of trying to reverse engineer the staging, we should instead focus on what the staging says
 
hmm but people are charged with multiple crimes along with murder all the time, they don't drop those charges because murder is on the table.
Sure they do. Murderers are often high on meth or crack while committing the crimes. I have never seen one on trial, where the murder charges included drug charges for being high.
 
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